[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Maybe its because the buy an M3 guys can't afford a new one anyway so the motor issues don't matter.

Don’t know if its significant but in most of these threads it looks like the most enthusiastic “buy M3” guys are driving older 328/335’s. I also think that a lot of the fully optioned 335is buyer could have bought an M3 instead but like me don’t believe it’s a useful street car.

Also like me I bet a lot of new 335is buyers will be moving to the F series M3 turbo when it comes out with bottom end torque.



Its also interesting how the little Burger Motorsports decal attracts M3 like a moth to a flame. Other then the decal it’s a pretty good sleeper.

10K+ in engine work, or 25K for a new motor is a big deal, even if your buying a used High mileage M3!

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

You can get the 335, and add the Performance power kit to get the similar power as the 335is.

Actually it does not workout that way even ignoring the extra cooling, DCT etc. the IS has. Dyno runs including my own show the IS to be under rated from the factory.

The performance pack gives you a bit more whp then stock but is still way down on torque. Its advertised at 320 brake horse power at the crank while a IS advertised at 330 bhp puts down 314whp on a dyno or using the standard 15% loss to the wheels 361bhp at the crank. The wheel horse power for the power pack is about 280whp. Torque is 317ftlbs vs. the IS with 370 ft lbs. Stock times of 13.1 @ 109mph support the dyno numbers.

Additionally, because based on Terry’s testing the factory timing is different on the IS from the 335 you can run Map 2 on the JB4 with just 93 octane & no other add-ons. My JB4 provides 365whp for a BHP at the crank of 421bhp. Not bad for under $500. The only thing I am going to add is a Helix FMIC to help with the Carolina summer heat.

[bryce]

^+1

the n55 is really a shitty motor. anyone wanting to modify their 335 to decent performance should get the iS (if you're looking at buying new). with just a tune, the 335iS makes significantly more power than a full bolt on n55 w/ tune. until a turbo swap becomes available, i'd stay clear of the n55.

finally, as others have posted, if you option an n55 335i the same as the 335iS comes standard, you'll likely be paying around the same for either. no brainer decision IMO

[whoosh]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

I also think that a lot of the fully optioned 335is buyer could have bought an M3 instead but like me don’t believe it’s a useful street car.

Also like me I bet a lot of new 335is buyers will be moving to the F series M3 turbo when it comes out with bottom end torque.

Agreed on both points. We'll see how the F3x coupe styling comes off. Another trip to Munich for euro delivery only sweetens the deal.

[gabster]

Originally Posted by D's Bimmer

As I own both an 10 M3 and an 11 335i, one thing to keep in mind is the significant upkeep costs that the M3 will incur above and beyond the 335's. Depending on how you drive, desire to mod, etc, that should also be considered. The upfront cost of a used M3 vs a new 335 would be similiar. In my opinion, the 335is has a high cost premium for what you get.

Thanks for the input, been that you own both, would you mind elaborate a bit more on that upkeep difference between an M3 vs a 335i? How much more is it?
Thank you

[gabster]

Originally Posted by gizmo335i

There are so many factors to consider with this in my mind.

How much do you want to mod? If the answer is "A lot" then get the 335 over the IS. If you don't plan on modding, the IS is a nice choice over even a fully loaded 335. It has quite a few things in the package.

With that said....I think you should get an M3 if at all possible over either of the above.....always better than a 335...IMO

I would like to do some mods, of course I would assume the amount of modification would be less as you move up the model ladder. I would like at least a safe/reliable tune and MAYbe suspension mod, but thats about it, if I go the M3 rout I strongly doubt I would do even very little to no mods at all.
However I do enjoy very much doing the mods myself instead of having BMW doing it for me... So here I am

[gabster]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Actually it does not workout that way even ignoring the extra cooling, DCT etc. the IS has. Dyno runs including my own show the IS to be under rated from the factory.

The performance pack gives you a bit more whp then stock but is still way down on torque. Its advertised at 320 brake horse power at the crank while a IS advertised at 330 bhp puts down 314whp on a dyno or using the standard 15% loss to the wheels 361bhp at the crank. The wheel horse power for the power pack is about 280whp. Torque is 317ftlbs vs. the IS with 370 ft lbs. Stock times of 13.1 @ 109mph support the dyno numbers.

Additionally, because based on TerryÂ’s testing the factory timing is different on the IS from the 335 you can run Map 2 on the JB4 with just 93 octane & no other add-ons. My JB4 provides 365whp for a BHP at the crank of 421bhp. Not bad for under $500. The only thing I am going to add is a Helix FMIC to help with the Carolina summer heat.

Sounds like a deal to me!

Now I wonder would the F32 come in 335is form?
Doesn't make much to me now buying a new e92 when the F3x body is comming out in the fall, but just wonder the above.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Actually it does not workout that way even ignoring the extra cooling, DCT etc. the IS has. Dyno runs including my own show the IS to be under rated from the factory.

The performance pack gives you a bit more whp then stock but is still way down on torque. Its advertised at 320 brake horse power at the crank while a IS advertised at 330 bhp puts down 314whp on a dyno or using the standard 15% loss to the wheels 361bhp at the crank. The wheel horse power for the power pack is about 280whp. Torque is 317ftlbs vs. the IS with 370 ft lbs. Stock times of 13.1 @ 109mph support the dyno numbers.

Additionally, because based on Terry’s testing the factory timing is different on the IS from the 335 you can run Map 2 on the JB4 with just 93 octane & no other add-ons. My JB4 provides 365whp for a BHP at the crank of 421bhp. Not bad for under $500. The only thing I am going to add is a Helix FMIC to help with the Carolina summer heat.

Your "IS" stock for stock, is slower than my stock 2007 335I at the track, as proven by car and driver.

[whoosh]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Your "IS" stock for stock, is slower than my stock 2007 335I at the track, as proven by car and driver.

Arguably due to the issues with DCT.

[BMW86]

Just seen this thread for the first time.

Seems to me like BMW is charging a premium for the N54 motor these days.

The N54 is only available in the 1M (manual only), 335is (DCT) and Z4sdrive35is (DCT) - note these cars are all performance models, either M cars or the next best thing in their respective line up.

Nothing against the N55, seems very capable but seeing that the N54 has been well established as the better tuning motor. Now it's exclusively reserved for higher spec models above the N55, and BMW are charging a premium for it. This speaks for itself if you ask me.

I've driven the N55 DCT before and I thought it felt bloody quick though. I think both are equally great up for stock and tune only setups. However, if you want big power and plan to go past FBO, N54 all the way.

My theory is horsepower always wins

[JJenE92]

Drive them all and decide which one you like better, nobody here is going to be able to tell you what you want. Shit if it was my money I'd buy an E46 M3 and supercharge it, but that's because I fell in love with that car when I was 16 and I probably won't ever get over that for the rest of my life. If you want to go balls to the walls buy the M3, if you want a luxury coupe with plenty of power buy the 335i, and for something in between buy the 335is.

[E90_boostjunky]

Originally Posted by abhishriv

i wouldnt consider the 335is... its essentially an already modded 335i, and for that BMW charges you an additional $7000? for what? more aggressive styling, slightly louder exhaust, and 30hp?

you can easily buy a 335i take that $7000 and mod it yourself properly;
- get the same body as the 335is.. (or even m3 with replica bumpers and side sills)
- tune the car to make more power than the 335is
- get the bmw performance exhaust which is better and louder than the 335is
- get upgraded suspension

AND the most important of all.. you will have FUN doing all these mods yourself, not something you will get if you just pay BMW to slap everything on your car and charge you more for it. just my opinion, but part of the fun in owning a 335i is making it better over time.

+1000000000
and you will beat m3s all day.

[Dozhdbog]

Originally Posted by whoosh

Arguably due to the issues with DCT.

And arguably due to differing weather conditions and different drivers.


That being said, stock vs stock, the 335i and the 335is aren't too far apart in 0-60 times:

2007 BMW 335i 0-60 mph 4.8 Quarter mile 13.4
2011 BMW 335i Sedan 0-60 mph 4.7 Quarter Mile 13.4
2011 BMW 335is 0-60 mph 4.5 Quarter Mile 13.1

[mabman]

Although its not comparing a 335is (but rather a 335i) to an M3, I think these posts are relevant to the discussion:

who has gone from a 335i to a E90 M3
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=375749

From 335xi to M3 - review
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...&highlight=e90

Summary (E90 vs M3):
I upgraded from a 335xi to an M3. In short, a M3 is indeed a much better car in many areas, but much of it is lost if you are not tracking it. For just city/highway driving, 335i/xi seems like a better value.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

On the VIR laps agree the older 335 was quicker & a win is a win.

That being said it rained before the 335is test, the tester said he was having issues with the 7DCT like not being able to see the gear selected quickly, finally dynos show the first issues 335i N55's were closer in power to the IS then later ones which were detuned.

Bottom line for non track days stock for stock it owns the 335i on the street or strip where 99% of the competitions is & its less expensive to mod because a lot of the good stuff is built in.

BTW the guy who would supercharge the M3 is looking at over $10K for a basic install. That is a long way from $2/3K to get an 11 second 335.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Dozhdbog

And arguably due to differing weather conditions and different drivers.


That being said, stock vs stock, the 335i and the 335is aren't too far apart in 0-60 times:

2007 BMW 335i 0-60 mph 4.8 Quarter mile 13.4
2011 BMW 335i Sedan 0-60 mph 4.7 Quarter Mile 13.4
2011 BMW 335is 0-60 mph 4.5 Quarter Mile 13.1

I was referring to car and driver's Virginia International Raceway Lightening Lap times.

2007 335I: 2:10
2011 335IS: 2:13

1/4 mile times have nothing to do with racing at a track, as a miata, can run circles around the M3, 335IS, and 335I.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

On the VIR laps agree the older 335 was quicker & a win is a win.

That being said it rained before the 335is test, the tester said he was having issues with the 7DCT like not being able to see the gear selected quickly, finally dynos show the first issues 335i N55's were closer in power to the IS then later ones which were detuned.

Excuses!

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

Bottom line for non track days stock for stock it owns the 335i on the street or strip where 99% of the competitions is & its less expensive to mod because a lot of the good stuff is built in.

Btw, on paper 13.4 @ 107, and 13.1 @ 109 might seem like a big deal on paper, and it is a big deal (roughly 4 car lengths) assuming both cars take off at the exact same time. However, in reality, they are both well within driver reaction times, so 9 times out of 10, unless you out react the 335I driver, you IS, won't beat it.

[L1VRPOOL.FC335is]

Originally Posted by WhiteFlood

I also feel the 335is is over priced, by a few thousand at least.

Have you done the math to convert a 335i to an IS? I have...

So should people like me who went out an bought a brand new 2012 335is MT coupe for $7K more than the base 335i 5 months ago, feel cheated by this new "Performance Edition"? Hell no!!! Here's why...

If you start with a standard 335i coupe MSRP $44,900. MSRP for 335is $51,900. Difference $7,000.

So here we go with calculations:

1. M sport package - $2,800
2. 19" Light alloy Star-spoke wheels style 230-with performance run-flat tires - $1,000
3. BMW Performance Exhaust - $1,595 (standard in 335is)
4. Version 2 Power Kit (this kit supplies the "additional oil cooler and water cooler for increased cooling performance" found in the 335is and it adds the 20hp) $1,190

Total: $6,585 with labor = $7,000 (the difference in price from 335i and 335is).



What you can't get with the Perfomance Edition is the 7 secs increased torque boost upto 370 that rivals the M3 torque.

So getting the 335is is definitely comparable to doing the upgrade to a 335i M sport via the "Performance Edition"

In conclusion, get the 335is if you want a reliable, worry-free (warranty included) mean upgrade. It is essentially comparable in performance to the E46 M3.

Disclaimer, I plan to buy the F30 M3 coupe MT when it comes out in a few years but have no regrets getting a brand new super modded 335i!

[Olde Irish]

Questions for Bear and/or Magik - What happens to the 7 second overboost feature when running JB4 or Procede? Without tune, how often can you use the overboost feature? Like when tracking, does it reset after each shift or just how does that work? How is the overboost feature limited? Bear, I'm assuming stock IS dyno numbers are on overboost, no?
I have E92 w/PPK + JB4. PPK also alters timing and will allow use of map 2 at 93 oct.
OP, whenever I see a question posted like yours my advice is to sit down and really determine how your car will be driven most of the time. Another important factor to consider is appearance. Do you really care if your car takes an extra 50 feet to reach 120 mph? I would support you buying an M3 based on looks alone, they're simply awesome. Myself, I enjoy the relative anonymity of my silver 335. For me, I would rather not rev to 8k, but that's me. I'm addicted to that low to mid range punch on the street, and the tune enhances that greatly. I don't care whether my car will put down an M3 or not. I care about it putting a smile on my face when I drive it. Go for what makes you grin!

[Alex_bm]

IS also comes with different shocks than 335. When driving you can feel the difference.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

Excuses!

Btw, on paper 13.4 @ 107, and 13.1 @ 109 might seem like a big deal on paper, and it is a big deal (roughly 4 car lengths) assuming both cars take off at the exact same time. However, in reality, they are both well within driver reaction times, so 9 times out of 10, unless you out react the 335I driver, you IS, won't beat it.

Nah, No excuse, I said a win is a win. I do think side by side it might be different.

Also before you get all wound up on track performance & reaction times I did my first NHRA quarter mile at Englishtown Raceway Park in 1960 when they still had gravel pits. Also drove SCCA - B,D & E production during the ‘60/70’s with a 283 Vette, Morgan +4 Super Sport & TR3B. So I have a general idea about how it all works.

Drag strip reaction time has nothing to do with on track reaction time except on a pro start. On a full tree its all about learning to game the tree. If you can read the tree you should have almost a perfect reaction time every time, especially with an auto or DCT. Same with a traffic light if you track the time from yellow to green.

Track day lap times also have no meaning on the street where you can’t get anywhere near max cornering speed on the street which is why M3’s are so much fun to tilt with. One M3 guys comment after 3 runs was “but I could get you at VIR” & I just agreed with him. VIR would be one of our local tracks.

That being said I did a few 335’s at the Rock & it was not much of a contest. I don’t think stock for stock I would have any problem at all taking your 335i out & if you want to run your JB+ not problem I would just go with my JB4 on Map 1 to make it interesting for you since Map 2 or 7 would not be fair. Might even be interesting to try your JB+ on default vs. the IS on Map 0. WHP would be about the same but there would be about a 40ftlbs spread in torque in favor of the IS.

BTW bet my old Morgan SS would kick your Miata's butt on the track.

[PKL]

I moved from an E92 M3 to a E90 335i Performance Edition.

I like my 335i loads more than I did my M3. Many people on this forum do not understand how that is possible, but those people simply have not OWNED both cars.

The V8 is completely wasted on the street, I don't care where you live, unless its near the Autobahn/Nurburgring.

Go with a Turbo, and I would basically decide 335i vs 335is based on whether you want a coupe or sedan. Or if you really want DCT.