[Ian0611]

Hey guys! I'm interested in doing some autocrossing and track days in my 07 328xi and was hoping I could get some advice on cost effective upgrades for my situation. My car is my daily driver and I'm also on a limited budget so I'm not looking to go crazy here, just trying to get some ideas on the best bang for my buck upgrades to improve handling. I'm basically starting with a clean slate here. The only that I've changed so far is the rear struts because one got blown out by a pothole about a month ago. So the rear struts are now Bilstein B6s, the rest of the car is still stock. I know the B6s may not be the best choice for what I want to do but I'm also not looking to build a track monster, just trying to improve daily driving and have some fun at the track a couple times a year.

Here are some of the upgrades I'm considering:
1.) ECS Front strut brace
2.) Bilstein B6 struts up front
3.) Lowering springs (if I can find some that will work with the B6s)

I'm pretty much a noob here so I'm very open to suggestions and advice. Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks!!

[CBR6n335Iracer]

first off, get great tires. put a 10k$ suspesion system and it wont do shit with crappy tires, so invest in that first,
then M-suspension parts and bushings
then kw V2 or V3 coilovers
camber plates

[Ian0611]

Originally Posted by CBR6n335Iracer

first off, get great tires. put a 10k$ suspesion system and it wont do shit with crappy tires, so invest in that first,
then M-suspension parts and bushings
then kw V2 or V3 coilovers
camber plates

I'm hoping to get new tires if/when I get some new wheels. What do you suggest for an affordable summer tire?

Will the M parts work on an Xi?

[neoduffer]

Tires and added front camber should get you by for a long while.

Hankook RS-3 are probably the best bang for your buck tires available that can do double duty autocross and HPDE. Dunlop Direzza ZII, Bridgestone RE-11A, and BFG Rival are also well regarded but a bit more money.

Ground Control has camber plates for the xi. GC E9X XI plates here

The front M3 parts won't work on an xi and the rear parts won't make as much difference as tires and front camber.

[Ian0611]

Originally Posted by neoduffer

Tires and added front camber should get you by for a long while.

Hankook RS-3 are probably the best bang for your buck tires available that can do double duty autocross and HPDE. Dunlop Direzza ZII, Bridgestone RE-11A, and BFG Rival are also well regarded but a bit more money.

Ground Control has camber plates for the xi. GC E9X XI plates here

The front M3 parts won't work on an xi and the rear parts won't make as much difference as tires and front camber.

I'll look into those. Thanks!

[Ian0611]

Do you guys think a front strut brace is a worthwhile upgrade or no? Also is there any noticeable difference between the brands that are out there? I've mainly been looking at the braces from BMW Performance, Cusco, and ECS.

[CBR6n335Iracer]

why do you need a front brace? do you feel a lot more roll then you think is necessary? unless you want it just to look good i dont see that being a big priority over tires

and my appologies i did not know xi's did not benefit as much from the m3 stuff

[Ian0611]

Originally Posted by CBR6n335Iracer

why do you need a front brace? do you feel a lot more roll then you think is necessary? unless you want it just to look good i dont see that being a big priority over tires

and my appologies i did not know xi's did not benefit as much from the m3 stuff

Yea I do feel like there is a fair amount of roll in the front. That could be partially due to my front suspension having 120K on it though. The other thing is that my budget is pretty limited. I can pick up a strut brace for $150-200 vs. $600+ for tires. I would like to do tires at some point, it's just not in my budget right now. I've got a second baby on the way so I'm just trying to see what I can do right now that won't break the bank.

[The HACK]

$600 worth of tires will be 1,000X more effective in dropping your lap times compared to $200 worth of strut brace.

You asked what is the best bang for the buck for handling. Tires, are by far the biggest and best bang for the buck when it comes to handling. Nothing you can do to your car will ever remotely come close to what a BETTER set of tires can possibly do.

NOTHING.

Except for upgrading the wetware on the car. But that's another subject matter all together.

[neoduffer]

With your budget in mind (and being a noob at one time), flush the brake fluid (with something like Ate or Motul) for a track day and go with what you have. Have fun with the car as is and worry about brakes and tires once you've worn those out. You won't know what benefits the mods will provide if you don't roll with the stock setup. The car is pretty capable for someone new to autocross and HPDE.

[Ian0611]

Originally Posted by The HACK

$600 worth of tires will be 1,000X more effective in dropping your lap times compared to $200 worth of strut brace.

You asked what is the best bang for the buck for handling. Tires, are by far the biggest and best bang for the buck when it comes to handling. Nothing you can do to your car will ever remotely come close to what a BETTER set of tires can possibly do.

NOTHING.

Except for upgrading the wetware on the car. But that's another subject matter all together.

I fully agree with what you're saying. I'm just trying to work within my budget and, more importantly, not waste my money. I'd love to get new tires, but I also know that I want get some new wheels at some point so I'm planning on getting both at the same time and keeping my stock tires/wheels for a winter setup.
The strut brace I can afford to do right now, that's why I brought it up. If it's something that will help me now, then why not do it? However, if it's not really going to do anything to help me right now or in the future, then I'll save my money.
The other thing you have to understand is that this is my daily driver and all I'm really looking to do is throw it around a track a few times a year to have some fun. Competitions, lap times, points, etc., none of that really matters to me. I just want to have a little fun with what I have right now, and put a plan together to slowly upgrade things when time and money become available.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Ian0611

I fully agree with what you're saying. I'm just trying to work within my budget and, more importantly, not waste my money. I'd love to get new tires, but I also know that I want get some new wheels at some point so I'm planning on getting both at the same time and keeping my stock tires/wheels for a winter setup.
The strut brace I can afford to do right now, that's why I brought it up. If it's something that will help me now, then why not do it? However, if it's not really going to do anything to help me right now or in the future, then I'll save my money.
The other thing you have to understand is that this is my daily driver and all I'm really looking to do is throw it around a track a few times a year to have some fun. Competitions, lap times, points, etc., none of that really matters to me. I just want to have a little fun with what I have right now, and put a plan together to slowly upgrade things when time and money become available.

the strut brace will do nothing! I have it and it is hard to feel benefits of it unless you are taking a corner at 60+ mph.

Get used light weight wheels and tires or increase your budget. You need to tweak suspension and wheels. Don't waste your money on anything else. My 2c

gl

[The HACK]

Here's what I don't get.

You asked for advice. The majority here gave you great advice. You continue to ignore said advice.

So, knowing that a set of better tires will go 1,000X more than a set of strut bars, why not save that money you're going to throw away on the strut bars, and delay actually spending money for spending sake and use it where it counts?

You mentioned doing a couple of events a year. Those events aren't free. Even at $200 for a set of strut bars, it's going to make next to zero impact on your actual enjoyment at said event. So why not just hold on to that money? Or blow it on say, one more event?

If you can't step up to better tires right now, don't spend it. Save it up. $200 is the difference between a set of, say, Pilot Super Sport and a set of Continental DWS, and I can promise you that the PSS is worth every penny of that $200 difference between the two. And will probably last as long. So while it may seem like you're not getting any benefit now of not getting whatever mod you had your mind set on buying, by not spending now you're actually getting your money's worth.

That, is the best advice I can give you. Feel free to ignore it.

[tc535i]

Originally Posted by The HACK

$600 worth of tires will be 1,000X more effective in dropping your lap times compared to $200 worth of strut brace.

You asked what is the best bang for the buck for handling. Tires, are by far the biggest and best bang for the buck when it comes to handling. Nothing you can do to your car will ever remotely come close to what a BETTER set of tires can possibly do.

NOTHING.

Except for upgrading the wetware on the car. But that's another subject matter all together.

sure, but a $2000 suspension will improve your car a lot longer than $2000 in tires will last...

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by tc535i

sure, but a $2000 suspension will improve your car a lot longer than $2000 in tires will last...

Not entirely true.

My $2,000 suspension (Ground Control track/school) is in desperate need of a rebuild since the shocks have long lost their effective damper rate, in 6 years of use averaging about 10-12 track days a year. Now I'm facing a ~$800 cost in rebuild and time to take the struts/shocks off the car and redoing the alignment, and this is all with me doing all the mechanical work. If I pay a mechanic to remove and reinstall the suspension I'm probably looking at around $1,300 total.

In the same span of time, I've gone through 2.5 sets of Nitto NT-01 R-Comps. The total cost to me? $600. 2 fronts since I run scrubs from a friend in the rear. Even if I were to be paying full retail for the cost of the tires, I would have spent, in the same amount of time, about $2,400 in tires.

Now, I've ran the Nittos before I got the suspension. Off the top of my head, I can tell you the Nittos are probably worth about 5-8 seconds per laps over my OEM ContiSportContacts on local tracks. Typically between 2 minute to 2:20 per lap. The $2,000 coil overs, on the other hand, was worth about 2 seconds per lap tops.

You do the math, and tell me that the suspension is worth MORE than the tires.

You want to know what WAS the biggest bang for the bucks? A proper alignment. It cost me $200 to do 4 wheels, but the end result was phenomenal. It allowed me to extend the life of my tires by 2-3X, it easily is worth another second by granting both the front and the rear tire more grip, and it allowed me to run wider and larger tires than I would otherwise be able to. And I've been on the same alignment setting for the last 6 years. And what does the coil-overs do for handling and performance? It allows the chassis better control over keeping those same contact patches on the ground therefore leading to better lap times.

Contact patches. On the TIRES.

But the alignment wouldn't be nearly as effective had it solely been for the ContiSportContacts I'll tell you that. Alignment was effective only because it allowed for a larger contact patch in the corners without rolling over on the sidewall of the TIRES. The four contact patches, each about the size of your palm (or about 1/2 the size of a letter sized paper), are the ONLY thing that keeps you and your car on the road. It's the only thing that should matter when it comes to "tuning" the suspension for better handling. Everything else you do on a chassis on springs, are to IMPROVE those contact patches, nothing more.

Seriously guys. If any of you actually cared about "performance" and "handling" and actually go to the track to experience what performance and handling is all about, you wouldn't be sitting here trying to argue with me. There's no argument. You ask ANYONE with any experience on track and they will all, to a man, tell you the tires are the BIGGEST single factor to your handling performance for your car, period. I'm not telling you this because I'm a d*ck. I'm telling you this because it's the TRUTH.

[tc535i]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Not entirely true.

My $2,000 suspension (Ground Control track/school) is in desperate need of a rebuild since the shocks have long lost their effective damper rate, in 6 years of use averaging about 10-12 track days a year. Now I'm facing a ~$800 cost in rebuild and time to take the struts/shocks off the car and redoing the alignment, and this is all with me doing all the mechanical work. If I pay a mechanic to remove and reinstall the suspension I'm probably looking at around $1,300 total.

In the same span of time, I've gone through 2.5 sets of Nitto NT-01 R-Comps. The total cost to me? $600. 2 fronts since I run scrubs from a friend in the rear. Even if I were to be paying full retail for the cost of the tires, I would have spent, in the same amount of time, about $2,400 in tires.

Now, I've ran the Nittos before I got the suspension. Off the top of my head, I can tell you the Nittos are probably worth about 5-8 seconds per laps over my OEM ContiSportContacts on local tracks. Typically between 2 minute to 2:20 per lap. The $2,000 coil overs, on the other hand, was worth about 2 seconds per lap tops.

You do the math, and tell me that the suspension is worth MORE than the tires.

You want to know what WAS the biggest bang for the bucks? A proper alignment. It cost me $200 to do 4 wheels, but the end result was phenomenal. It allowed me to extend the life of my tires by 2-3X, it easily is worth another second by granting both the front and the rear tire more grip, and it allowed me to run wider and larger tires than I would otherwise be able to. And I've been on the same alignment setting for the last 6 years. And what does the coil-overs do for handling and performance? It allows the chassis better control over keeping those same contact patches on the ground therefore leading to better lap times.

Contact patches. On the TIRES.

But the alignment wouldn't be nearly as effective had it solely been for the ContiSportContacts I'll tell you that. Alignment was effective only because it allowed for a larger contact patch in the corners without rolling over on the sidewall of the TIRES. The four contact patches, each about the size of your palm (or about 1/2 the size of a letter sized paper), are the ONLY thing that keeps you and your car on the road. It's the only thing that should matter when it comes to "tuning" the suspension for better handling. Everything else you do on a chassis on springs, are to IMPROVE those contact patches, nothing more.

Seriously guys. If any of you actually cared about "performance" and "handling" and actually go to the track to experience what performance and handling is all about, you wouldn't be sitting here trying to argue with me. There's no argument. You ask ANYONE with any experience on track and they will all, to a man, tell you the tires are the BIGGEST single factor to your handling performance for your car, period. I'm not telling you this because I'm a d*ck. I'm telling you this because it's the TRUTH.

calm down big guy, I've got plenty of track down under my belt, nobody's impressed

of course tires are important, they're the only thing connecting your car and the ground

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by tc535i

calm down big guy, I've got plenty of track down under my belt, nobody's impressed

LOL...No you don't.

If you had plenty of track time you would have known. No need to pretend.

In fact, there are two posters in this thread that has zero experience on track, and it's pretty easy to tell. Who here didn't bring up TIRES as the first and foremost "important" mod to a chassis?

[tc535i]

Originally Posted by The HACK

LOL...No you don't.

If you had plenty of track time you would have known. No need to pretend.

In fact, there are two posters in this thread that has zero experience on track, and it's pretty easy to tell. Who here didn't bring up TIRES as the first and foremost "important" mod to a chassis?

damn, you got me buddy. I totally haven't been autocrossing for 14 years and tracking for 12, owned 10+ bmw's, have an m3 on coilovers that really only gets track use anymore, etc etc.

guess I'll stop pretending now

[tc535i]

I can tell you didn't have your heart in that post tho since nothing was CAPITALIZED AND BOLDED so I'll let it slide this time

[Mavus]

Guys chillout ... let's help somebody learn something and the final decision is up to them. No need to PMS over it

[Ian0611]

Wow! That escalated quickly!!

Seriously though, I do appreciate everyone's advice and input. I wasn't ignoring your advice about the tires, but up until my last post no one had given me a definitive answer on whether or not there was any benefit to a strut brace. It sounds like the consensus is there isn't, so I'll go ahead and save my money there and keep an eye out for a decent set of wheels to throw some good tires on Until then, I guess I'll see what she can do in stock trim

[kentgbr]

Originally Posted by Ian0611

Hey guys! I'm interested in doing some autocrossing and track days in my 07 328xi and was hoping I could get some advice on cost effective upgrades for my situation. My car is my daily driver and I'm also on a limited budget so I'm not looking to go crazy here, just trying to get some ideas on the best bang for my buck upgrades to improve handling. I'm basically starting with a clean slate here. The only that I've changed so far is the rear struts because one got blown out by a pothole about a month ago. So the rear struts are now Bilstein B6s, the rest of the car is still stock. I know the B6s may not be the best choice for what I want to do but I'm also not looking to build a track monster, just trying to improve daily driving and have some fun at the track a couple times a year.

Here are some of the upgrades I'm considering:
1.) ECS Front strut brace
2.) Bilstein B6 struts up front
3.) Lowering springs (if I can find some that will work with the B6s)

I'm pretty much a noob here so I'm very open to suggestions and advice. Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks!!

I like option 2.) add Bilstein B6's up front to match the rears. That will provide a noticeable improvement IMO.