[Cromartie84]

New Year's Eve morning bump.

[07tundra]

Has stage 2 gotten any numbers yet?

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by 07tundra

Has stage 2 gotten any numbers yet?

AFAIK Vargas is waiting on the WG flappers and then will be shipping them out to the Beta testers to get numbers

[kitesurfer]

Tony at Vargas this question is for you and I have not seen a direct answer in the thread....what's the differences between Vargas S2 and RB turbos in terms of configuration/specifications ?

[mave198]

Hey Tony, just would like a quick estimate on what you think the Stage 2s will produce on a FBO running 93oct at 15ish psi.

Thanks for all the hard work you putting into these upgrades, they are more than appreciated!

[F80M]

Originally Posted by 91Octane

Not sure if it has been discussed before...what's the differences between Vargas S2 and RB turbos in terms of configuration/specification and performance?

I'm in the market of upgrading twin and I would like to wait and see the S2 performance before making decisions.

Care to response? And no retarded reply as "look in other forum" bullshit please?

[F80M]

The bullshit part is the product is being promoted and selled on here at e90post...why the questions cannot be answered here? Why do we need to use another forum?

[marvin1992]

looks nice

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by RnmEvo9

DIY obviously.

Depends on how it is made, design and the specs of it rather than who made it.

But are you saying your 1494 posts are not useful? Sad.

[SuperBmw]

Originally Posted by mave198

Hey Tony, just would like a quick estimate on what you think the Stage 2s will produce on a FBO running 93oct at 15ish psi.

Thanks for all the hard work you putting into these upgrades, they are more than appreciated!

I think Tony wants to avoid the whole estimate game since it only leads to trouble. It's better to get the product finished put it on the dyno and just show the results.

Originally Posted by kitesurfer

Tony at Vargas this question is for you and I have not seen a direct answer in the thread....what's the differences between Vargas S2 and RB turbos in terms of configuration/specifications ?

Questions like that only read to forum wars so I think that is the reason it is being side stepped. I'm guessing Tony will just post his own specs and leave the comparing upto us.

Originally Posted by 91Octane

The bullshit part is the product is being promoted and selledon here at e90post...why the questions cannot be answered here? Why do we need to use another forum?

The product is being promoted, but it's not finished or being "selled" yet.

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by nailer335

Just maybe...

People have better things to do than spoon feed someone who expects these people with busy agendas to rewrite everything they've already detailed out on a different website, for a crowd that is largely more relevant to the level of detail that is desired than this one.

The point was that it is hard to find the info from there because of all the clutter and drama. I hope a vendor would do this so that I would not need to spoon him, but here you go:

Stage 2:

Modified turbine housing to take TD04 fullback wheel
Wastegate flapper and arm upgraded to full stainless billet
Proprietary fullback TD04 turbine wheel
Step gap turbine piston ring
Proprietary journal bearings
Full TD04 thrust parts including flinger, collar, thrust, and seal plate
Proprietary TD04 step gap compressor piston ring
15T compressor wheel
Modified compressor housing to accept 15T wheel
Brand new factory actuators
Stainless steel wave washer and spacer to eliminate all play of the rod end on the arm

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by 91Octane

The bullshit part is the product is being promoted and selled on here at e90post...why the questions cannot be answered here? Why do we need to use another forum?

Every update thread I post is posted on both sites, there is no information available over there that is just available here, nor on our website. The was a detailed breakdown of the differences between our stage 2's and RB's at some point. All threads most likely have Vargas in the title so a search should be very easy. I am sorry you think I am "sidestepping" or giving "bullshit" answers. The number of emails and posts asking me the exact same questions has led me to just pointing people to the forums at this point. The turbos will be going out to the betas as soon as the final parts arrive and we will have some numbers. I hope everyone has a blessed new year.

[jippii ensio]

In my opinion the stage 3 is very interesting and I'm eager to see the results. In my opinion stage 1 is not worth the installation and RBs are the proven choice if someone is looking for stage 2 kind of turbos. Thanks for Tony for the stg 3 development. I really appreciate his effort and I'm looking forward to nice results. Stage 3 turbos would be an alternative to big single turbos. I believe they will be similar to singles in both price and the power delivery.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

In my opinion the stage 3 is very interesting and I'm eager to see the results. In my opinion stage 1 is not worth the installation and RBs are the proven choice if someone is looking for stage 2 kind of turbos. Thanks for Tony for the stg 3 development. I really appreciate his effort and I'm looking forward to nice results. Stage 3 turbos would be an alternative to big single turbos. I believe they will be similar to singles in both price and the power delivery.

Appreciate your opinion. But it is just that an opinion. Our stage 2's will speak for themselves, improved newer technology turbine wheel design, thrust parts designed with a much higher load threshold, piston rings redesigned to help curb the oiling issues, and the exact same airflow as RB's as they use the same compressor wheel, for less money. But as you say, not yet proven. Thats the only part I can agree with on comparing the two, but we will not have to wait to much longer til we have some numbers, I am confident they will perform as hoped. Concerning stage 3 we are all eager to see the results as well. But in my opinion the market for stage 3 is VERY small. The singles have been out for a year they have sold what 10-15 kits? People love to see new things, developments, and load the forums up with all the talk and opinions, but most are not ready to do this kind of an upgrade. We understand this and are developing other options as well. I also disagree with you on stage 1. Many many people when their turbos go out just want a stock style replacement as their HP needs do not go much beyond that. These will add slightly more airflow at the same turbo RPM as stock turbos, better wastegate parts to eliminate rattle, all for about the same you would pay for stock turbo replacements, its a win win for those people who do not want to go bigger. I think you still have the early "stage 1" style upgrades that some companies were charging $3000-4000 for in mind, yes then I would agree with you. Not worth it in the slightest. We're all entitled to our opinions but these are some facts I wanted to throw out there.

[BMWnation]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

Appreciate your opinion. But it is just that an opinion. Our stage 2's will speak for themselves, improved newer technology turbine wheel design, thrust parts designed with a much higher load threshold, piston rings redesigned to help curb the oiling issues, and the exact same airflow as RB's as they use the same compressor wheel, for less money. But as you say, not yet proven. Thats the only part I can agree with on comparing the two, but we will not have to wait to much longer til we have some numbers, I am confident they will perform as hoped. Concerning stage 3 we are all eager to see the results as well. But in my opinion the market for stage 3 is VERY small. The singles have been out for a year they have sold what 10-15 kits? People love to see new things, developments, and load the forums up with all the talk and opinions, but most are not ready to do this kind of an upgrade. We understand this and are developing other options as well. I also disagree with you on stage 1. Many many people when their turbos go out just want a stock style replacement as their HP needs do not go much beyond that. These will add slightly more airflow at the same turbo RPM as stock turbos, better wastegate parts to eliminate rattle, all for about the same you would pay for stock turbo replacements, its a win win for those people who do not want to go bigger. I think you still have the early "stage 1" style upgrades that some companies were charging $3000-4000 for in mind, yes then I would agree with you. Not worth it in the slightest. We're all entitled to our opinions but these are some facts I wanted to throw out there.

Well said. I totally agree with Tony's comment. I run a multi million dollar company, and I see the same trends.

[Carl Morris]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

Concerning stage 3 we are all eager to see the results as well. But in my opinion the market for stage 3 is VERY small. The singles have been out for a year they have sold what 10-15 kits? People love to see new things, developments, and load the forums up with all the talk and opinions, but most are not ready to do this kind of an upgrade.

It's a small market as of this moment. But if you're in it for the long haul I suspect it will be much bigger than it currently looks if 10s become relatively common and a few people run 9s on a stock bottom end. I'm talking about after the cars get cheaper. Right now you're still looking at around 20k to get into one but in a few more years when it's more like 10k and the solutions to all the common problems are well known the hard core guys that want something other than a GTR will start getting into them. They won't want to spend 8k for a turbo solution, but up to 5k will probably be doable. If you don't cater to them somebody will...and I predict if/when that day comes hundreds if not thousands of big turbo setups will be sold. But the car needs to be cheaper to buy and keep on the road than it currently is. Hopefully that will happen...

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by Carl Morris

It's a small market as of this moment. But if you're in it for the long haul I suspect it will be much bigger than it currently looks if 10s become relatively common and a few people run 9s on a stock bottom end. I'm talking about after the cars get cheaper. Right now you're still looking at around 20k to get into one but in a few more years when it's more like 10k and the solutions to all the common problems are well known the hard core guys that want something other than a GTR will start getting into them. They won't want to spend 8k for a turbo solution, but up to 5k will probably be doable. If you don't cater to them somebody will...and I predict if/when that day comes hundreds if not thousands of big turbo setups will be sold. But the car needs to be cheaper to buy and keep on the road than it currently is. Hopefully that will happen...

Good point. Once price comes down and people start seeing some really crazy numbers out of the N54 it will start attracting people who otherwise may have been looking at more established platforms.

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

Appreciate your opinion. But it is just that an opinion. Our stage 2's will speak for themselves, improved newer technology turbine wheel design, thrust parts designed with a much higher load threshold, piston rings redesigned to help curb the oiling issues, and the exact same airflow as RB's as they use the same compressor wheel, for less money. But as you say, not yet proven. Thats the only part I can agree with on comparing the two, but we will not have to wait to much longer til we have some numbers, I am confident they will perform as hoped. Concerning stage 3 we are all eager to see the results as well. But in my opinion the market for stage 3 is VERY small. The singles have been out for a year they have sold what 10-15 kits? People love to see new things, developments, and load the forums up with all the talk and opinions, but most are not ready to do this kind of an upgrade. We understand this and are developing other options as well. I also disagree with you on stage 1. Many many people when their turbos go out just want a stock style replacement as their HP needs do not go much beyond that. These will add slightly more airflow at the same turbo RPM as stock turbos, better wastegate parts to eliminate rattle, all for about the same you would pay for stock turbo replacements, its a win win for those people who do not want to go bigger. I think you still have the early "stage 1" style upgrades that some companies were charging $3000-4000 for in mind, yes then I would agree with you. Not worth it in the slightest. We're all entitled to our opinions but these are some facts I wanted to throw out there.

I hope I'm wrong, as my estimation such as yours, is just an estimation, but speculation is the only thing we can do until we will see the results. The turbine wheel is the bottleneck in stage 1, but as you said, it could work well for people merely replacing the stockers rather than upgrading them big time. I don't think we've seen much info, such as dimensions, about the nice looking proprietary stg. 2 fullback turbine wheel, which will be the unknown factor on how stg2 will do. Stg 3 is very interesting, because the outcome is so uncertain compared to the others. As an enthusiast, I'm not interested in the volumes such as you need to be being a vendor. I'm just very curious no matter how much it sells. I hope it works out and sells well, though.

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by Carl Morris

It's a small market as of this moment. But if you're in it for the long haul I suspect it will be much bigger than it currently looks if 10s become relatively common and a few people run 9s on a stock bottom end. I'm talking about after the cars get cheaper. Right now you're still looking at around 20k to get into one but in a few more years when it's more like 10k and the solutions to all the common problems are well known the hard core guys that want something other than a GTR will start getting into them. They won't want to spend 8k for a turbo solution, but up to 5k will probably be doable. If you don't cater to them somebody will...and I predict if/when that day comes hundreds if not thousands of big turbo setups will be sold. But the car needs to be cheaper to buy and keep on the road than it currently is. Hopefully that will happen...

For whose whp freaks who think about the price only, single is the cheapest to build. There is a guy who spent something like 5k for a single. The top notch turbos are expensive. Typically the kit will be the more expensive, the more turbos. Pushing a kit consisting of a couple of GTX's + all the other parts below 5k is not feasible.

[Carl Morris]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

For whose whp freaks who think about the price only, single is the cheapest to build. There is a guy who spent something like 5k for a single. The top notch turbos are expensive. Typically the kit will be the more expensive, the more turbos. Pushing a kit consisting of a couple of GTX's + all the other parts below 5k is not feasible.

Perhaps not. But I still predict that the setup that eventually sells high volumes will be below 5k, one way or another. Perhaps it will get there by not being complete...just a manifold/turbo combo and you grow your own downpipe(s) and software. Or somebody like FP gets involved and creates custom housings and wheels for the stock turbos that get each one to 35+ lb/min while still bolting onto all the factory stuff. Not sure why they decided to abort their first attempt in this market, but if the volume is there I'm sure they'll get back in.

[TLO03]

Originally Posted by Carl Morris

Perhaps not. But I still predict that the setup that eventually sells high volumes will be below 5k, one way or another. Perhaps it will get there by not being complete...just a manifold/turbo combo and you grow your own downpipe(s) and software. Or somebody like FP gets involved and creates custom housings and wheels for the stock turbos that get each one to 35+ lb/min while still bolting onto all the factory stuff. Not sure why they decided to abort their first attempt in this market, but if the volume is there I'm sure they'll get back in.

Show me a twin turbo platform that you can get into the 10's with a sub 5k turbo kit.. Or even into the serious 500hp area , not 501 or 525 hp.

[robc1976]

Originally Posted by TLO03

Show me a twin turbo platform that you can get into the 10's with a sub 5k turbo kit.. Or even into the serious 500hp area , not 501 or 525 hp.

11.4-11.2 with RB'S is being done, I just got a bunch of suspension mods for some better traction....will report back after I run and Dyno.