Possible N54 Fuel Pump Upgrade

King mode · 10-17-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofyguy

I wonder if the pump can keep up with the stock fuel system well above power ratings, as well run 6 high impedance injectors on a secondary fuel rail. I hate to run 2 fuel systems but to get reliable band aid free power this is the route Im looking into. Whats the total flow capacity of the lines with this pump at the 13 volts would that be enough to support 500hp with 93 octane alone.

Might be in double pumper territory if you are looking to run secondary injectors w/ e85. Maybe not though for just 93?

Centex Hokie · 10-17-2012, 10:48 AM

Joining in the thread. This is an upgrade I would like to have.

WilliamS · 10-17-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King mode

Might be in double pumper territory if you are looking to run secondary injectors w/ e85. Maybe not though for just 93?

E85 is scarce in Florida, I will be straight pump 93. Need more fuel to get more power.

King mode · 10-17-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofyguy

E85 is scarce in Florida, I will be straight pump 93. Need more fuel to get more power.

Gotcha

ragingpanda · 10-17-2012, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goofyguy

E85 is scarce in Florida, I will be straight pump 93. Need more fuel to get more power.

Depends on where you are, but E85 is pretty easy to locate where I am at (several locations).

akotten · 10-17-2012, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quebequer

According to Terry this walbro pump is not louder than the oem one.

That's great! I not a fan of using hose clamps where factory connectors can be used. I may have to look into this DIY some more.

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 10-17-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King mode

I was going to say the same thing but thought not to get into a debate. My Walbro 255 did the job for a long time but couldn't keep up like the Bosch 044 (1.8t big turbo application).

However, Walbro makes a well priced product that gets the job done.

I think it was the intention that this DIY would be used on whatever pump someone prefers to run. The Walbro E85 pump is a good fit to the platform but may be overkill for many. The keys to making this work is ensuring the pump draws less than 20 amps @ 72psi and can support PWM control. A secondary concern is that it has close to the OEM diameter to slide in the brackets but one could always make their own bracket if they really needed to.

Mike

King mode · 10-17-2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I think it was the intention that this DIY would be used on whatever pump someone prefers to run. The Walbro E85 pump is a good fit to the platform but may be overkill for many. The keys to making this work is ensuring the pump draws less than 20 amps @ 72psi and can support PWM control. A secondary concern is that it has close to the OEM diameter to slide in the brackets but one could always make their own bracket if they really needed to.

Mike

I see. Thanks for the insight. Did you by chance see if other comparable pumps had similar diameter? Just curious.

OpenFlash · 10-17-2012, 02:06 PM

This proposed pump upgrade won't work. Look closely at the bottom of the oem LPFP bucket. There is a Venturi jet that uses a dedicated vent from the factory pump to keep the bucket full (even well the surrounding fuel level in the tank is low). Without this vent and functional venturi jet, this important function will be eliminated. In other words, you can't just drop in another pump. Been there, done that.

Rob@RBTurbo · 10-17-2012, 02:27 PM

Good call on the bucket test... Assuming this means the tank has to be filled considerably at all times to not have a fuel supply issue.

King mode · 10-17-2012, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Won't work. Look closely at the bottom of the oem LPFP bucket. There is a Venturi jet that uses a dedicated vent from the factory pump to keep the bucket full (even well the surrounding fuel level in the tank is low). Without this vent and functional venturi jet, this important function will be eliminated. In other words, you can't just drop in another pump. Been there, done that.

How bout fabbing a surge tank to enclose the pump?

LivnLife31 · 10-17-2012, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Won't work. Look closely at the bottom of the oem LPFP bucket. There is a Venturi jet that uses a dedicated vent from the factory pump to keep the bucket full (even well the surrounding fuel level in the tank is low). Without this vent and functional venturi jet, this important function will be eliminated. In other words, you can't just drop in another pump. Been there, done that.

When is your inline pump going to be ready?

OpenFlash · 10-17-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobBeck

Good call on the bucket test... Assuming this means the tank has to be filled considerably at all times to not have a fuel supply issue.

Correct. It's really not a feasible option for that reason. When I tried this back in 2010, i ended up having to completely redesign the bucket using an off-the-shelf venturi jet as well as a one way check valve. Ended up being pretty time consuming and costly. I was going to stay quiet let Terry move forward with the product and sell it to the public. But that would cause a lot of people a lot of unnecessary problems as it is the tuners job to understand how this stuff works before suggesting a proposed upgrade.

cn555ic · 10-17-2012, 02:51 PM

Damn.

D_Smiderreen · 10-17-2012, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Correct. It's really not a feasible option for that reason. When I tried this back in 2010, i ended up having to completely redesign the bucket using an off-the-shelf venturi jet as well as a one way check valve. Ended up being pretty time consuming and costly. I was going to stay quiet let Terry move forward with the product and sell it to the public. But that would cause a lot of people a lot of unnecessary problems as it is the tuners job to understand how this stuff works before suggesting a proposed upgrade.

I knew a fuel pump upgrade could not have been this simple, on this platform

Rob@RBTurbo · 10-17-2012, 02:58 PM

Dont think sales was a concern of his, but agree significant functionality oversight if that bucket dries up at lower tank fill levels. Definitely appreciated to point it out, would've caused some headaches for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Correct. It's really not a feasible option for that reason. When I tried this back in 2010, i ended up having to completely redesign the bucket using an off-the-shelf venturi jet as well as a one way check valve. Ended up being pretty time consuming and costly. I was going to stay quiet let Terry move forward with the product and sell it to the public. But that would cause a lot of people a lot of unnecessary problems as it is the tuners job to understand how this stuff works before suggesting a proposed upgrade.

King mode · 10-17-2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobBeck

Dont think sales was a concern of his, but agree significant functionality oversight if that bucket dries up at lower tank fill levels. Definitely appreciated to point it out, would've caused some headaches for sure.

Rob - haven't you seen many other platforms with similar buckets that keep the pump submerged all the time? And there are aftermarket intank options, right? Or do people just not let the tank go to nearly empty and risk fuel starvation a little.

Rob@RBTurbo · 10-17-2012, 03:11 PM

Lol it does seem there ALWAYS is more than meets the eye with this platform for sure...

Quote:

Originally Posted by D_Smiderreen

I knew a fuel pump upgrade could not have been this simple, on this platform

cn555ic · 10-17-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King mode

Rob - haven't you seen many other platforms with similar buckets that keep the pump submerged all the time? And there are aftermarket intank options, right? Or do people just not let the tank go to nearly empty and risk fuel starvation a little.

Fuel starvation is the worst thing that can happen on high boost.

JMARS · 10-17-2012, 03:18 PM

I HAVE A SOLUTION!!!!! Do this e85 Pump and KEEEP YOUR TANK FULL AT ALLLLLL TIMES!!!!

King mode · 10-17-2012, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Fuel starvation is the worst thing that can happen on high boost.

Right but I think people risk it with cars that don't race with turns and high G's that slosh the tank a bunch. (in cheaper / older cars)

cn555ic · 10-17-2012, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMARS

I HAVE A SOLUTION!!!!! Do this e85 Pump and KEEEP YOUR TANK FULL AT ALLLLLL TIMES!!!!

A lot of folks including myself like to keep the car at half to quarter tank at most to keep down the weight on the car! Lol. Filling it up all the time and keeping it there, there is a noticeable difference in performance, at least for me

10-17-2012, 10:48 AM	#24
Centex Hokie Private First Class 3 Rep 120 Posts Drives: BMW E93 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Central Texas iTrader: (0)	Joining in the thread. This is an upgrade I would like to have. __________________ CPO Sparkling Graphite 335i Convertible -\|- Premium -\|- CA -\|- Heated Seats/Steering Wheel -\|- Sport Package -\|- Navigation -\|- Logic7 -\|-Installed -\|- ModMyNav Backup Camera -\|- XM Radio -\|- Racing Brake 2 Piece Rotors w/ET500 -\|- Injen SP-Series Cold Air Intake -\| - M3 Replica from Modprojekt-\| - Cobb Accessport-\| - ETS FMIC -\| Last edited by Centex Hokie; 10-17-2012 at 02:07 PM..
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10-17-2012, 02:06 PM	#31
OpenFlash 1736 Rep 17,960 Posts Drives: A Lot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SF Bay, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 Ducati Panigal ... [0.00] 2016 Mazda CX5 [0.00] 2017 Aprilia Tuono ... [0.00] 2019 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 Competi ... [10.00] 2016 Ducati XDiavel S [0.00] 2016 AMG GT S [0.00] 2011 Ferrari 458 It ... [0.00] 2017 Charger Hellcat [0.00] 2015 KTM Super Duke ... [0.00] 2016 KTM RC390 [0.00]	This proposed pump upgrade won't work. Look closely at the bottom of the oem LPFP bucket. There is a Venturi jet that uses a dedicated vent from the factory pump to keep the bucket full (even well the surrounding fuel level in the tank is low). Without this vent and functional venturi jet, this important function will be eliminated. In other words, you can't just drop in another pump. Been there, done that. Last edited by OpenFlash; 10-17-2012 at 02:50 PM..
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10-17-2012, 02:27 PM	#32
Rob@RBTurbo Lieutenant Colonel 387 Rep 1,571 Posts Drives: '08 335I AT, '14 M6 DCT Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO iTrader: (5)	Good call on the bucket test... Assuming this means the tank has to be filled considerably at all times to not have a fuel supply issue.
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10-17-2012, 02:51 PM	#36
cn555ic 441 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	Damn.
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10-17-2012, 03:18 PM	#42
JMARS Not Baned 85 Rep 1,352 Posts Drives: e92 Single-T Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Boca Raton, FL iTrader: (5)	I HAVE A SOLUTION!!!!! Do this e85 Pump and KEEEP YOUR TANK FULL AT ALLLLLL TIMES!!!! __________________ FFTEC 900 - 6466 \| PR PI Stg4 \| Motiv Tune/BB/FF \| Spec Stg 2+ \| Quaife LSD \| DSS Half-shafts VRSF Race IC \| VRSF Charge Pipe \| Evo Dual Oil Cooler \| BC Coilover \| To be continued...
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