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Syria
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09-04-2013, 09:04 AM | #111 | ||
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You could conceivably replace Assad's name with some modern democratic western leader's name. I suspect for every instance in which you might do so, however, the scope of the transgression would come nowhere near what Assad has done. However, even if you did (and found comparably scaled examples), as a refutation of my claim that Assad is not a benevolent dictator, it would be worthless. That someone else may have done the same things has zero bearing on Assad's character traits. The comments you made above suffer the same logical fallacy: they have nothing to do with whether Assad is not a benevolent dictator. I have not once said that other leaders have not at one time or another said that the leaders of Western democracies have not committed some despicable acts of their own, yet that seems to be the case you are making. Remember, you are the one who chose to question my claim that Assad is not benevolent. I've defended my claim and seen no relevant points that weaken it. Lastly, I'll ask you again, since you seemed incapable of answering the question the first time: Based on what you've read about Assad, do you think he's benevolent? Note: what is the question you wanted to ask me? You said "let me ask you" and then asked no question. I don't mind if you really had no question, but I want to be fair and respond to one you had in mind and perhaps forgot to type it or perhaps lost it during a revision of your post.
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09-04-2013, 09:20 AM | #112 | ||
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From what I've read and seen, I don't know if he's benevolent or not, so any view I take can only be my opinion and so would have to be caveated as such - you made no such caveat, just stated as 'fact' that he is not benevolent, rather than adding an (in my view) appropriate IMO... But really we're just splitting hairs and I don't think it's helpful to healthy respectful debate to say things like "you seemed incapable of answering the question the first time", umm. Quote:
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09-04-2013, 10:51 AM | #113 |
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Jewish "groups" detain 50 muslim worshippers in mosque: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...212153293.html
If only it was the other way round, muslim groups (terrorists they would call them) stormed a jewish site, it would be ALL OVER the media saying Al Quaeda strikes again! A UN rights group report on the torture and abuse of CHILDREN. Yes children held and tortured, sometimes sexually, in Israeli jails. Again if this was Assad or any other muslim leader this would be all over the media: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...613601306.html Make your own conclusions people. |
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09-04-2013, 10:58 AM | #114 |
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Assad is indiscriminantly killing, detaining and forcing out Sunni muslims. It is all over the media - you cant go on any world news site without seeing this.
The link you posted about Muslims being detained appeared to be stating that the military cordoned off the mosque due to Far Right Jewish attacks on the building - i.e. they were there to protect the mosque and its inhabitants. Ultimately, I dont really see what Israel has to do with the conflict in Syria - I doubt they are backing either side to win and in all probability couldnt give a monkeys.
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09-04-2013, 11:07 AM | #115 | ||
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I believe OJ Simpson murdered his ex wife, but the criminal case jury didn't think so. The fact is that the woman died due to stab wounds. The defense made the case that the facts don't incontrovertibly point to OJ Simpson as the person who stabbed her. The prosecution failed to make a solid enough case that he did. My assertion that Assad is not benevolent is supported by the same general sort logical reasoning. Of course I don't know the man, but based on what I've read about him that is factual, my conclusion is that he is not a benevolent dictator. Perhaps were there fewer, less clear cut facts, I might conclude differently. So, you say you don't know. OK. Would you say you need more facts than the ones I've presented in order for you to feel confident in saying he's not benevolent? If so, what additional facts would you need? Just where does your burden of proof lie? Is ti possible for you to know/accept any conclusion that must be arrived by inductive reasoning? Quote:
Well even though I disguised my question very well (unintentionally it has to be said), you did answer it, thankyou, by saying that no perfect government exists in practise...[/quote] Of course I will say that. The facts show it to be true. Just as the facts show Assad to be non-benevolent.
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09-04-2013, 11:10 AM | #116 | |
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My other point was if it was muslims then this would be front page news. As its Jewish Groups, its not even reported. Just a little amendment to your post to get people thinking: Israel is indiscriminantly killing, detaining and forcing out Palestinians. It is not all over the media. Plus detaining, sexually abusing and torturing Palestinian CHILDREN. If thats not a serious humanitarian issue then i don't know what is! Last edited by mob17; 09-04-2013 at 11:17 AM.. |
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09-04-2013, 11:17 AM | #117 | |
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It's not for Israel's sake. Israel has shown repeatedly that it can hold its own in the region. It's not, like it was in Iraq, for something having to do with oil and profits related to oil. It's not because the US wants the land. It's not revenge for some earlier transgression for were that so, Assad's father would have been dead much sooner than he died. Indeed, I can only think of one plausible reason why the US or anyone else would give two cents about Assad's having used chemical weapons, but it's a bit far fetched.
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09-04-2013, 11:50 AM | #118 |
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After reading this thread it's become apparent that everybody is reading a lot of stuff and copying and pasting extracts from different internet sources.
The problem now lies with the fact forum members are reading second hand possible third hand accounts of what actually happened from journalists who are well known for (I'll be kind) exaggerating the truth a little. I would be as well finding an article from The Sunday Sport (Google it) and attaching it to this post. My Dad worked as a journalist for over 30 years and I spent a couple of years working as a copy boy for a national newspaper. I sat next to the Lawyer who they employed to read the "dodgy articals" before they ever made it to print just to make sure they could get away with the BS. I'm not for one second agreeing with what’s happened in Syria or the rest of the Middle East, if I'm honest the west is only interested in controlling the flow of oil. The only way to do this is to control the local governments. Is it best to keep them infighting with each other instead of them all focusing on the outside???? |
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09-04-2013, 12:07 PM | #119 | |
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The situation in Israel is not as clear as you like to portray with Israel as the aggressor and the Muslim communities as punished and submissive. Lots of shit has been happening for too many years for Israel to take a lax attitude to security.. The kids you mention in the article were arrested for attacking and throwing stones at Jewish communities. They were beaten up, blindfolded and detained. Outside of the liberal western world, this type of abuse is rife within policing - Pakistan and India are no better (I've seen it) and even the USA aint got a great record here. There are no confirmed reports of sexual abuse - it says the police threatened detainees with death and sexual abuse. Peace talks have been ongoing in Israel for years, most people want peace. It is the radicals who make the situation so difficult with regular terrorist attacks - leading to Israeli crackdowns and vengence attacks from Jewish groups. I.e. same shit to any other country with ethnic tensions - Iraq, much of Africa etc. Pretty small scale in Israel though - 6,000 deaths since 2000 on both sides. Syria is genocide by comparison. Lets keep this about Syria and not your personal concerns about the plight of the Palestinians - start a new thread if this interests you.
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09-04-2013, 12:39 PM | #120 |
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Oh sorry phil the poor kids were "threatened" with sexual abuse. My bad!
And its not the "radicals". Its real human beings who are being kicked out of their homes by illegal jewish settlements. You think people are just going to let that happen? My whole point of introducing Israel is nothing personal. Its a neutral look. All i'm trying to say is that on one hand the US is going into Syria due to one chemical weapons attack. On the other, Israel are causing far worse humanitarian issues. Stealing land, kicking families out, detaining and abusing children, firing white phosphorous grenades into one of the most densely populated places on the planet. Isn't this far more important than Syria? The point is they are much worse than the alleged crimes of Assad. You just have to have one look at the image below. Its clear what the goal is. |
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09-04-2013, 12:47 PM | #121 | |
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not really neutral is it. Nor is it directly related to the issue in Syria, apart from being perhaps a useful illustration of what may happen in Syria if the rebels are equipped to overthrow the existing government. |
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09-04-2013, 01:08 PM | #122 | |
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09-04-2013, 05:14 PM | #123 | |
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09-04-2013, 05:27 PM | #124 |
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Good for you.
Guantanomo closing i hear you say? Ever heard of this prison? http://www.aljazeera.com/focus/2009/...114632353.html |
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09-04-2013, 05:45 PM | #125 |
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Al Jazeera is an Arab owned broadcaster, are you seriously going to keep quoting them for 'facts' about atrocities against Muslims across the world? I don't think this forum is the place to air your views on the hardship Muslims face and the crimes the US and Israel commit against them. This thread was about Syria, you've completely de-railed it with your 'neutral' look at everything other than the topic at hand. Well done. The floor is all yours again.....
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09-04-2013, 05:58 PM | #126 | |
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Try and disprove any of the Al Jazeera stories if you can. Where's the lies in them? I seriously thought we had some decent intelligent people on this forum. Maybe they are just staying out of this and letting people like you get involved. And the situation is Israel/Guantanomo IS related to the proposed US action in Syria. Its to show how hypocritical and credible the US are. It shows us the nation that we have come to trust. |
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09-04-2013, 06:05 PM | #127 |
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Specially for you confused.com since you insisted: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...he-making?lite
Thats NBC if you didn't realise. Edit: Thought i'd add i've got nothing against the Israeli people. They are just as innocent as the palestinians. In fact there are Israelis protesting on what is going on. Jews and Arabs lived together fine before. Its the Israeli and US Government thats dividing citizens and conquering. I'm positive the average Jew and average Muslim want the same thing, justice for all and a stop to the Israeli military crusade. Last edited by mob17; 09-04-2013 at 06:54 PM.. |
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09-05-2013, 03:46 AM | #129 |
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6000 deaths in the battle between Israel and Palestine since 2000? Not far off, here's the actual figures - At least 1,104 Israelis and 6,829 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000, that's a ratio of nearly 7 to 1 in this war. Of the 6,829 Palestinians, 1,519 were children and approximately 3,800 were civilians.
The taking of land by Israeli's is an illegal act in international law, yet the US continues to 'allow' their friend to do it. Al Jazeera TV has as much right to exist and be referenced as the BBC or NBC or whatever your news service of choice happens to be! If you've never watched a bit of Al Jazeera news channel on Sky, I suggest you give it 5minutes of your time - it doesn't follow the news agenda of western news channels and therefore provides a sometimes interesting balance. Trusting what the media (any media) reports to us as 'facts' should always be open to question. US media watchdog FAIR - Fairness and Accurary in Reporting - make the comment that when a foreign government is in favour with the US, with the White House, it's human rights record is basically off the mainstream media agenda, and when they do something that puts them out of favour with the US government, the foreign government's human rights abuses are, all of a sudden, major news. Last edited by dar2008; 09-05-2013 at 04:15 AM.. |
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09-05-2013, 05:22 AM | #130 | |
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And you call ME stupid and imature!
Yuo seem to have an unhealthy obsession with male genitalia my friend. Quote:
For those who don't know, Al jazeera is a Qatar owned anti American; anti Semetic network. It is a propaganda outfit for the middle eastern autocrats; it is funded by petro-dollars that come from Qatar and the UAE, and most concerningly it props-up the fundamentalists of the middle east. The 'traitor' Al Gore sold his failed network to Al jazeera and it looks like he's also passed on his legacy. http://dev.arabianbusiness.com/al-ja...re-515823.html
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Last edited by Cyprio; 09-05-2013 at 05:32 AM.. |
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09-05-2013, 05:39 AM | #131 | |
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If so, I suggest a read of this book,... http://www.amazon.co.uk/NEWSPEAK-21s.../dp/0745328938 ...I'm half-way through and been quite disturbed by what I've been reading. Wrongly Al Jazeera = Al Quaeda in many western eyes,... if only they could have come up with a better name! |
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09-05-2013, 08:14 AM | #132 |
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As we're quoting a diverse range of news sources, how about this one?
http://www.timesofisrael.com/obama-s...s-truly-alone/ |
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