[ICE_MAN]

ss134, if that is the case and they have implemented the change to European models first and the North American models second, that would lead me to believe that the engine swap isn't because of the HPFP. It has been highly documented that the HPFP issue is an North American Issue. So it would stand to reason that the US models would get the transplant first. What do you guys think?

[s.myrr]

Originally Posted by Ti335

Can someone explain to me why BMW is going with the single turbo design for the N55? Normally, twin turbo = less turbo lag.

The new single turbo will be twin-scroll design. I don't have a comprehensive understanding of the tech, but I owned a SAAB 93 Aero with a V6 mated to a twin-scroll...not much lag at all, if any.

[ss134]

Originally Posted by ICE_MAN

ss134, if that is the case and they have implemented the change to European models first and the North American models second, that would lead me to believe that the engine swap isn't because of the HPFP. It has been highly documented that the HPFP issue is an North American Issue. So it would stand to reason that the US models would get the transplant first. What do you guys think?

There are far fewer HPFP failures in Europe but there are still some. IMO BMW learned a lot from the development of the N54 and have in the 2 years or so since its release evolved the technologies and developed new ones - i dont think the HPFP was the reason N55 was developed.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by ICE_MAN

ss134, if that is the case and they have implemented the change to European models first and the North American models second, that would lead me to believe that the engine swap isn't because of the HPFP. It has been highly documented that the HPFP issue is an North American Issue. So it would stand to reason that the US models would get the transplant first. What do you guys think?

The failures occur in the Euro market as well, and they use up to 5% ethanol where as in the US it is up to 10%.
The euro market is also considering moving to 10% and it will probably happen.

The 3.0TT is the oddball here not the new N55.
When it was first introduced or advertised, I suspected it was a "stop gap" engine to compete with the market and it's higher output engines.
BMW did an old school turbo design on the "older" 3.0 block that powered the E46 line. I was quite surprised at this considering how advanced the new magnesium block is.
IT seemed and seems the 3.0TT was a limited run engine until BMW designed or finished design on a truly built for turbo's engine, like the N55 is. The N55 uses most of BMW's modern engine tech including valvetronic.
The N55 has serious potential with its twin scroll and valvetronic design, and chiefly among them is lighter weight, power, better MPG, and lower emissions.
This is BMW's FIRST modern turbo engine as I see it.
The N54 gave BMW the power it needed to better compete.
The N55 gives BMW THE turbo engine design that others will envy.♦

[ICE_MAN]

Originally Posted by RPM90

The failures occur in the Euro market as well, and they use up to 5% ethanol where as in the US it is up to 10%.
The euro market is also considering moving to 10% and it will probably happen.

The 3.0TT is the oddball here not the new N55.
When it was first introduced or advertised, I suspected it was a "stop gap" engine to compete with the market and it's higher output engines.
BMW did an old school turbo design on the "older" 3.0 block that powered the E46 line. I was quite surprised at this considering how advanced the new magnesium block is.
IT seemed and seems the 3.0TT was a limited run engine until BMW designed or finished design on a truly built for turbo's engine, like the N55 is. The N55 uses most of BMW's modern engine tech including valvetronic.
The N55 has serious potential with its twin scroll and valvetronic design, and chiefly among them is lighter weight, power, better MPG, and lower emissions.
This is BMW's FIRST modern turbo engine as I see it.
The N54 gave BMW the power it needed to better compete.
The N55 gives BMW THE turbo engine design that others will envy.♦

Very interesting perspective. I wasn't aware of much of the information you have posted. If the N54 was meant as a stop gap engine it is quite the engine and has become the darling of the auto industry. But having read your post it makes a tonne of sense. I do believe that BMW will be taking a step forward with the new engine (valvetronic etc). Or atleast that is the intention.

Where would you fit in the V8TT? Do you think it will fall in line with the N54, being a short production run?

[s.myrr]

I've heard that BMW is moving away from V8's...

[jayely1]

you mean like every company?

[Ti335]

Originally Posted by noro

Agree on 2 years, disagree on the E36 carryover, the engines were different though not drastically. (see M50 vs M52)

M52 is an E36 carryover. It was introduced in MY1995 and replaced with the M54 in MY2001.

[mrad01]

Originally Posted by s.myrr

I've heard that BMW is moving away from V8's...

...and just released the X5M, X6M and the new 5-series with V8 options....not to mention the upcoming M5 which is rumoured to be a V8TT...

BMW are using the V8TT more because it is so much more efficient than the old NA V8s.

Interesting future....

[AWM3]

Originally Posted by RPM90

The failures occur in the Euro market as well, and they use up to 5% ethanol where as in the US it is up to 10%.
The euro market is also considering moving to 10% and it will probably happen.

The 3.0TT is the oddball here not the new N55.
When it was first introduced or advertised, I suspected it was a "stop gap" engine to compete with the market and it's higher output engines.
BMW did an old school turbo design on the "older" 3.0 block that powered the E46 line. I was quite surprised at this considering how advanced the new magnesium block is.
IT seemed and seems the 3.0TT was a limited run engine until BMW designed or finished design on a truly built for turbo's engine, like the N55 is. The N55 uses most of BMW's modern engine tech including valvetronic.
The N55 has serious potential with its twin scroll and valvetronic design, and chiefly among them is lighter weight, power, better MPG, and lower emissions.
This is BMW's FIRST modern turbo engine as I see it.
The N54 gave BMW the power it needed to better compete.
The N55 gives BMW THE turbo engine design that others will envy.♦

That's a lot of information there. I thought I read that BMW was not comfortable with using magnesium on the turbo engine because of durability concerns. Does the N55 have a magnesium block? The BMW press release says that the N55 is 4kg lighter than the N54, which isn't much.

[PBureno]

They should put the E46 M3's engine inside the 328i LOL that would be pretty epic..maybe de-tune it slightly so the 335i will still have about 330-350hp

Seriously though, they need to bump the 328i up or bring the 330i back

[galahad05]

The twin-scroll charger design is a nice hybrid between a positive displacement (think Roots blower on top-fuel dragsters) and your typical turbo, which is basically a pure compressor.

The positive displacement means that the instant that the scrolls start turning they push air into the engine. This is what drastically reduces turbo lag.
This type of design also efficiently compresses the air (nearly as well as a centrifugal charger), thus giving you the boost with less air heating.....

All in all, I've always liked the twin-scroll designs.

[s.myrr]

Originally Posted by mrad01

...and just released the X5M, X6M and the new 5-series with V8 options....not to mention the upcoming M5 which is rumoured to be a V8TT...

BMW are using the V8TT more because it is so much more efficient than the old NA V8s.

Interesting future....

Woops I stand corrected!

[A418t81]

Originally Posted by galahad05

The twin-scroll charger design is a nice hybrid between a positive displacement (think Roots blower on top-fuel dragsters) and your typical turbo, which is basically a pure compressor.

The positive displacement means that the instant that the scrolls start turning they push air into the engine. This is what drastically reduces turbo lag.
This type of design also efficiently compresses the air (nearly as well as a centrifugal charger), thus giving you the boost with less air heating.....

All in all, I've always liked the twin-scroll designs.

LOL, that's not what a twin scroll housing is. I swear, you guys are getting all worked up over this twin scroll stuff because you think it's something new and innovative. It's been around in cheap production cars for decades. All a twin scroll housing is, is a turbine housing that has two seperate volutes all the way down to the nozzle on the turbine wheel. This has to be accompanied by a properly designed exhaust manifold as well. What happens is that the twin separate scrolls (and the properly designed exhaust manifold to route the correct runners into the correct scroll) allow for a ordered, and organized flow of exhaust pressure pulses down onto the turbine wheel, instead of an open (single scroll) design that allows them to hit haphazardly and not allowing each pulse to exert it's full force on the turbine wheel. Twin scroll turbos were common in the old 1.9T volvos, all Evos are twin scroll, etc.

Even with the addition of the twin scroll, which does aide some in spool up, the fact that the single in the N55 spools up faster than the twins most likely means that the single will NOT have the flow capacity that the twins currently possess.

[Weaselboy]

Originally Posted by Ti335

Can someone explain to me why BMW is going with the single turbo design for the N55? Normally, twin turbo = less turbo lag.

http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...55-engine.html

This might help understand.

[5soko]

This engine is going to be interesting! I wonder if it will make as much power as the n54, not claimed, which im guessing it is not, but depends how much it can flow really.

This is like the E55 vs E63 days

[Weaselboy]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

This engine is going to be interesting! I wonder if it will make as much power as the n54, not claimed, which im guessing it is not, but depends how much it can flow really.

This is like the E55 vs E63 days

I think BMW will need to have this engine produce at least the same HP as the N54. I just can't see them releasing a new engine/LCI with a higher 0-60 or 1/4 mile times than the previous year model.

[5soko]

we are going to have to wait and see...

AMG view but just interesting since i went through it once:
When the E55 was replaced with the NA E63 engine which was rated from benz for more HP and such, and was put in the LCI body, it ended up being actually slower then the E55 in stock trim and of course modding potential was better for the E55...

I think modding potential the N54 is going to hold strong here.
Along with who knows what bmw is gonna throw out for tuners in this engine for tuning protection/warranty claims.

[ucla1995]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

This engine is going to be interesting!

Dude, earlier in this thread you were slamming me saying that the N55 wasn't coming - are you all of a sudden on board?

[PBureno]

Originally Posted by ucla1995

Dude, earlier in this thread you were slamming me saying that the N55 wasn't coming - are you all of a sudden on board?

busted! hahahaha

[F104]

+1

Now i wonder why no VG turbo, or twin scroll with VG. Doesn't look to me like this is very high tech / efficient.

Originally Posted by A418t81

LOL, that's not what a twin scroll housing is. I swear, you guys are getting all worked up over this twin scroll stuff because you think it's something new and innovative. It's been around in cheap production cars for decades. All a twin scroll housing is, is a turbine housing that has two seperate volutes all the way down to the nozzle on the turbine wheel. This has to be accompanied by a properly designed exhaust manifold as well. What happens is that the twin separate scrolls (and the properly designed exhaust manifold to route the correct runners into the correct scroll) allow for a ordered, and organized flow of exhaust pressure pulses down onto the turbine wheel, instead of an open (single scroll) design that allows them to hit haphazardly and not allowing each pulse to exert it's full force on the turbine wheel. Twin scroll turbos were common in the old 1.9T volvos, all Evos are twin scroll, etc.

Even with the addition of the twin scroll, which does aide some in spool up, the fact that the single in the N55 spools up faster than the twins most likely means that the single will NOT have the flow capacity that the twins currently possess.

[5soko]

Originally Posted by ucla1995

Dude, earlier in this thread you were slamming me saying that the N55 wasn't coming - are you all of a sudden on board?

No, im still not sold it is going to be in next years 3 series, it might happen, of course, but imho the new 3 replacement F line is already in testing phase, so why would bmw even bother, but like i said it could happen.

But the engine itself is interesting to compare to the N54, dont read too much into what i say, as im saying to for what i mean it for, and goes along the path of 'maybe', 'what if', and 'if it does' .