[RiXst3r]

From Terry @ BMS...

Hey guys,

I had Riss install some coated catless downpipes on my 135i earlier this week, which fit, look, and sound great. They even came to my driveway to install them!

Driving around you can really feel the improvement to throttle response and power, but I figured some dyno testing and data logging would tell the full story.

As most of you know I was planning on making a special JB3 v81 downpipe map to keep midrange boost in check and under BMWs detection limits. But after a lot of testing I'm pleased to say the normal JB3 v81 map works great with downpipes. The direct solenoid control and algorithms in place keep midrange boost in perfect check, and the algorithms to detect improved exhaust/intake work perfectly allowing for a lot more top end.

This morning I headed over to the dyno to do a few pulls. In addition to the downpipes I have also recently added the BMS dual cone intake. I figure anyone who is going to do downpipes is going to add an intake also. Hopefully one from BMS.

The first chart shows my last dyno with the JB3 + Code3 intercooler on 91 octane with the addition of the Riss Racing Downpipes and dual cone intake. As you can see huge top end increases, more than 30rw in parts. Torque is about the same as the JB3 v81 map is keeping boost in check and the ECU happy just like it should.

Data logging on the dyno I noticed we were working close to the limits of 91 octane, so I added a couple gallons of 100 to get to ~94 octane. Which allowed the ECU to add more timing and resulted in huge increases. You can really see how much you leave on the table by running California 91 octane fuel.

So the net result on 94 octane is a wicked fast car, capable of 11s in the right conditions. And this is on factory rims in mediocre weather. With lighter rims on a cool day, 400/400 would be possible on 94 octane in my opinion.

After I did a few pulls with the valet map (stock tune), just to see the difference. I wasn't expecting much, but the gains were impressive! With the stock boost control boost does spike a bit with the downpipes and intake. Net result was an additional 35 horsepower and 25 torque over my last dyno with just the Code3 intercooler. A few of that HP was due to the higher octane, but the gains on a stock tune are still very impressive.

Riss Racing downpipes with JB3 FTW. =)

[RiXst3r]

Is this a new record for a v81 135i ?

[ZJP]

Those are some sweet numbers man. I'm sure with the addition of a catback exhaust and 93 octane 400/400 is attainable.

[Driver72]

Rick, Terry called me right after doing these dynoes and let me know. I didn't want to post it up as when he told me and emailed me the dyno files, he had yet to post the info on his site or his forum.
But just to be clear the
387 rwhp
392 rwtq
was done with those mods AND on 94 or so Octane.

On 91 Octane it was

376 rwhp
367 rwtq

He got 11 rwhp peak gain from the FMIC (no peak torque gain)
He then got 19 peak rwhp and 7 peak rwtq more from the Riss DP's.

Terry also just got his Kosei wheels and the DR's are coming in too so he should be able to duplicate his high 11's run that he did on his 335i with the 135i now too with the 94+ Octane in.
He said his car feels very good now.

Now he just needs to wash the dang thing.


**edit I see you updated the title to show 94 Oct. Rick, cool.**

[BES335xi]

wow great numbers...how come i see now less torque in JB than b4?

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by BES335xi

wow great numbers...how come i see now less torque in JB than b4?

the lowest tq number I see on the graphs is 360...

remember, this is on v81 !!!

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by BES335xi

wow great numbers...how come i see now less torque in JB than b4?

v81 / 29.2+ tune
The tunes need to limit boost in the lower rpms so it doesn't trip the hidden "tune" code.

[Sniz]

excellent numbers....congrats to Terry

[BES335xi]

so what would happen to us V80 pre-29.2 guys ... with that setup.. would we see same numbers or better?

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by BES335xi

so what would happen to us V80 pre-29.2 guys ... with that setup.. would we see same numbers or better?

5-10wtq better, nothing major... just a tiny bit because of the different method of fuel delivery.

[BES335xi]

Thank's rick.

[e90AW335i]

Damn it, this makes me want to keep my mods and buy a FMIC to see if I can get close......

Congrats to Terry@BMS continuing to push the envelope....

[mistermojorizin]

Originally Posted by Driver72

On 91 Octane it was

376 rwhp
367 rwtq

He got 11 rwhp peak gain from the FMIC (no peak torque gain)

so if i remember correctly he got 346hp with just jb3, which increased 30hp with the FMIC, pipes and intake. Which means he got 19 (30 -11) hp with pipes and intake?

[JB335]

wow. Catless DPs are defintely my next mod. Awesome numbers

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

5-10wtq better, nothing major... just a tiny bit because of the different method of fuel delivery.

I'd say better than that personally.
I don't remember off hand but I think on an otherwise stock car, you'll see 10 rwtq peak difference between the regular tune and the v81 version.
You add in the fact the intake, DP's and so forth will take more advantage of the extra low to midrange boost and I'd bet it's more like 15-20+ rwtq difference.

IIRC on a similiar psi boosting JB2HR set up with DP's and intake Terry was seeing like 420+ rwtq on 94/95 Octane mix on his former 335i

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by JB335

wow. Catless DPs are defintely my next mod. Awesome numbers

Just keep a couple things in mind.
Though Terry just had the DP's installed in his driveway the other day, and got these sweet new numbers, and technically they are still v81 safe, nobody knows this for sure YET!!

Second, DP's will give you all kinds of warranty hassles at pretty much EVERY dealership (from every car maker).
Not only will they void your emissions warranty, they can surely use them to void your powertrain/engine warranty too.
As I said a year ago when DP's first started hitting the 335i market, they are just not warranty friendly.
I don't know of a car maker that "allows" them and overlooks them if you have engine or powertrain issues.

Lastly, they take 1.5-2 hours to install by someone who knows what they are doing. They are NOT a mod that you can easily remove for service. So by putting them on, if you have any kinds of car troubles and are away from home and need to be towed to the dealer, unlike the piggyback, you can not just simply remove the DP's so you are SOL the minute the car is towed into the dealer.

As I said a year ago, just not worth the 15-20 hp IMHO unless you just don't care about paying out of pocket for powertrain/engine warranty work.

Just a friendly FYI
Sorry to go OT

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by Driver72

I'd say better than that personally.
I don't remember off hand but I think on an otherwise stock car, you'll see 10 rwtq peak difference between the regular tune and the v81 version.
You add in the fact the intake, DP's and so forth will take more advantage of the extra low to midrange boost and I'd bet it's more like 15-20+ rwtq difference.

IIRC on a similiar psi boosting JB2HR set up with DP's and intake Terry was seeing like 420+ rwtq on 94/95 Octane mix on his former 335i

That was based on the initial boost spike of the JB2HR setup, not the difference between v81/non-v81

[e90AW335i]

Originally Posted by Driver72

Just keep a couple things in mind.
Though Terry just had the DP's installed in his driveway the other day, and got these sweet new numbers, and technically they are still v81 safe, nobody knows this for sure YET!!
I'm not sure if Terry has run the numbers to see if they are now outside of the safe zone for the hidden code (and that may not even be possible)

Second, DP's will give you all kinds of warranty hassles at pretty much EVERY dealership (from every car maker).
Not only will they void your emissions warranty, they can surely use them to void your powertrain/engine warranty too.
As I said a year ago when DP's first started hitting the 335i market, they are just not warranty friendly.
I don't know of a car maker that "allows" them and overlooks them if you have engine or powertrain issues.

Lastly, they take 1.5-2 hours to install by someone who knows what they are doing. They are NOT a mod that you can easily remove for service. So by putting them on, if you have any kinds of car troubles and are away from home and need to be towed to the dealer, unlike the piggyback, you can not just simply remove the DP's so you are SOL the minute the car is towed into the dealer.

As I said a year ago, just not worth the 15-20 hp IMHO unless you just don't care about paying out of pocket for powertrain/engine warranty work.

Just a friendly FYI
Sorry to go OT

Nicely said Michael, I completely agree....

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by e90AW335i

That was based on the initial boost spike of the JB2HR setup, not the difference between v81/non-v81

Not fully.
Rest assured there was more torque down low for more than just the quick hit. Regardless, I know JB2HR and JB3 aren't the same tune and are hard to compare. My point was simply, 39x rwtq with the DP's, intake, FMIC and 94/95 Octane is great.
But on the 335i with JB2HR on 94/95 Octane with intake, DP's and NOT EVEN a FMIC, he made well over 400 rwtq and I believe it was even over 420 rwtq.
So there is definitely more of a difference than 5-10 rwtq between the old v80 midrange torque and the limits of the v81 especially with extra mods.

Don't get me wrong though, I think 360 rwtq is plenty for this car, much less 390.
I was the first and probably only person to ask Shiv at the original LA Dyno Day and install of his first 30 PROcedes to ask for LESS torque down low and a bit more power up top.
Shiv replied, "why would you want that?"
With PROcede v2 that boost hit of v1.2 through v1.4 and with JB2(HH or X) was eliminated quite a bit. Now with JB3 it's also a lot less torquey but more up top.
As Shiv said, with V2 and now JB3 it's finally what I've been asking for from the very get go of n54 tuning.
So the lower to mid range torque "restrictions" of v81 and 29.2+ to me aren't a big deal.

[M.A.C.K.]

I'm getting excited.............

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by M.A.C.K.

I'm getting excited.............

We all are

[camaross305]

Im curious how you got more power than this car

http://www.burgertuning.com/images/dyno3.jpg

Im guessing either the 93-94 octane difference or the FMIC?