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      06-23-2015, 01:12 PM   #1
spodoinklehorse
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Garage blew turbo help!

I left my car in for brake pads, main Volkswagen dealer, came back to pick it up and the garage had blown the turbo while test driving. They have said the oil was low, engine was burning oil and there was a bit hanging off/wearing down this long time and it was only a matter of time.

If this is true and the turbo was on its last legs, (no signs of it)do I have any grounds for redress considering it blew while in their posession?

I had a reconditoned turbo fitted 2 years ago, which was 20,000 miles

They have quoted 900 to fit a reconditioned turbo, do I have to suck it up and pay? Surely this is the same as leaving a car in and the garage damaging the bodywork?
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      06-23-2015, 01:31 PM   #2
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It was under their care at the time. Who's the say the tech wasn't beating on the car when it happened. Even low oil volume in the pan won't trigger a blown turbo. Turbo's don't just blow unless they are some cheap china shit or get oil starvation. So they are trying to pin this on you. Turbo can go for years as long as lubrication is there and the seals last.
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      06-23-2015, 01:32 PM   #3
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Update: they did a health check 1st prior to the turbo blowing on which they have noted "advised oil at minimum"; now I have went back this evening and they have quoted 900 to replace. I have questioned why I have to pay as it was damaged in their care, they replied the turbo was about to go and oil was at the bare minimum.

Now if the garge new the oil was at the bare minimum, surely they should have known not to be driving the car?
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      06-23-2015, 01:41 PM   #4
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1. I can't see "minimum" being a level that can starve a turbo. Might be wrong but then it wouldn't be called "minimum" surely.

2. If this was the case, and they generally believe that this fact is bad for the turbo, why the hell did they drive your car in this state?

3. I don't think you should back down - not only was it done in their care, they seem to have been negligent as in points 1+2 above and IMO were probably pushing the engine quite hard which caused this.

Don't even try to get in an argument with them, tell them that the case is very simple - everything was just fine before they got hold of your car and suddenly the turbo blows. Their fault, their responsibility.
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      06-23-2015, 01:43 PM   #5
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Oil just onto the dipstick or just on the minimum marker?Why would they road test if they knew oil was low.
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      06-23-2015, 01:46 PM   #6
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Agree with az 100%. Minimum isnt critical...minimum is 1 litre less than the 6.7l the car takes. Dont back down!
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      06-23-2015, 01:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KM79 View Post
Oil just onto the dipstick or just on the minimum marker?Why would they road test if they knew oil was low.
Exactly, I have it in writing as well and it was given to me prior to the turbo blowing so Im hoping this will help the case......
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      06-23-2015, 02:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spodoinklehorse View Post
Update: they did a health check 1st prior to the turbo blowing on which they have noted "advised oil at minimum"; now I have went back this evening and they have quoted 900 to replace. I have questioned why I have to pay as it was damaged in their care, they replied the turbo was about to go and oil was at the bare minimum.

Now if the garge new the oil was at the bare minimum, surely they should have known not to be driving the car?
Oil at minimum is just that. Minimum level for safe operation of motor. Now if they are implying something else, then the simple question is if you knew the oil was too low, then why did you drive car without topping up.

They should be at least responsible for all labour on the fix. This would be the minimum resolution I would be comfortable with.

Mike
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      06-23-2015, 02:03 PM   #9
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I bet the engine was cold & then mechanic thrashed the bllcks off it bedding in the new brakes (start, stop low speed,low gear, high revs heavy braking).
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      06-23-2015, 02:10 PM   #10
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Feel for you mate, some of the info in the attached trading standards link bears some relevance. I would be inclined to put your complaint to the garage in writing this evening and also seek the advice of your local trading standards. Certainly won't do any harm.

http://www.tradingstandards.uk/cgi-b...V0046-1011.txt
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      06-23-2015, 02:40 PM   #11
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If they don't back down consider the following:

- Instructing a solicitor
- Gaining an independent engineer's report
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      06-23-2015, 02:44 PM   #12
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Break it - buy it.

Am I getting too old or do these rules still stand..?

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      06-23-2015, 03:04 PM   #13
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If i remember correctly, they teach/test you on checking oil and adding if necessary in your driving test, so i would question if VW's test driver even had a licence.

Name and shame the VW garage for its poor business ethic
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      06-23-2015, 03:55 PM   #14
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They wouldnt even give me a courtesy car which had me speechless

Not that many would know them but its Donnelly Brothers in Enniskillen
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      06-23-2015, 03:58 PM   #15
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Ridiculous mate. They've clearly had a thrash in your car and fooked it. Then thought what can we write down to pass blame.

They need to pay for it. Good luck. Don't use them again btw.
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      06-23-2015, 04:47 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spodoinklehorse View Post
I left my car in for brake pads, main Volkswagen dealer, came back to pick it up and the garage had blown the turbo while test driving. They have said the oil was low, engine was burning oil and there was a bit hanging off/wearing down this long time and it was only a matter of time.

If this is true and the turbo was on its last legs, (no signs of it)do I have any grounds for redress considering it blew while in their posession?

I had a reconditoned turbo fitted 2 years ago, which was 20,000 miles

They have quoted 900 to fit a reconditioned turbo, do I have to suck it up and pay? Surely this is the same as leaving a car in and the garage damaging the bodywork?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spodoinklehorse View Post
Update: they did a health check 1st prior to the turbo blowing on which they have noted "advised oil at minimum"; now I have went back this evening and they have quoted 900 to replace. I have questioned why I have to pay as it was damaged in their care, they replied the turbo was about to go and oil was at the bare minimum.

Now if the garge new the oil was at the bare minimum, surely they should have known not to be driving the car?
Difficult one this. It went in for brake pads and that was it you can look at it from a couple of angle's really.

1/ A lot of garages would of fitted pads(discs if necessary)then either road tested it or in some cases not.

2/ Most places when you book to do brake pads just replace the pads that's it. The mere fact that they done a health check and noticed the oil level to a degree has helped them then at the same time possably hindered them as well.

What I mean by that is if you just repalce the pads commonsense says post work you drive the car to carry out the initial bedding in process and check for any issues post work.

Here's the grey area. If the oil was on minimum you drove it in like this. They replaced the brakes then drove it and sadly you current situation took place

If the health check hadn't of highlighted the situation you could of driven the car away and some time later the same thing could of taken place.

The question will come about as to why the turbo let go. Seen this before sadly but if you persue the situation a garage could send your turbo away for it to be inspected. If they pull the unit apart and see carbonised deposits, blocked oil feed/return pipe's this will be highlighted as a cause of failure. I've seen many a claim rejected due to the symptoms I've described.

On the subject of minimum oil when we see it we a)advise it on paper and b)call customer for consent to get the level to where it needs to be.

Will minimum oil level cause a turbo failure. Well minimum on level is better than no oil showing or indeed being drastically overfilled. but I'd say the garage has missed a point here to a degree but at the same time being on this level IMO wouldn't of stopped them from driving the car, personally I'd of gone for the phone consent to address the oil level situation while the car was in my care in the workshop. But regardless the car needed to be driven to ensure the brakes worked as intended.

Turbo's can let go seen customers who had no idea whatsoever that their turbo's were on the way out but not actually seen the car smoking drive in to us they've got no idea whatsoever and for may they wait for a light or the inevitable "bang" to take place before it dawns on them that the issue has taken place.

While the cars in their care sure they are responsible for it, if the body work or say the wheels were damaged while in their workshop then its an open & shut case end of. This sort of thing is far far more tricky.

As stated and I've seen this if the turbo's removed and checked and the bearings have gone of there's carbonised deposits present these are all major contributary causes of failure that have manifested themselves over time.

Did the garage who you entrusted your car to on the given day push the envelope too far that's for you to prove them to disprove.

On the subject of your recon turbo in the 2 years you've had the unit on how many oil services for instance did you have, was the turbo replaced on its own, were the oil feed, return pipes changed at the same time? All questions that when push comes to shove can be pulled out of the woodwork and potentually if it come to it re a claim info that the garage could request...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
Oil at minimum is just that. Minimum level for safe operation of motor. Now if they are implying something else, then the simple question is if you knew the oil was too low, then why did you drive car without topping up.

They should be at least responsible for all labour on the fix. This would be the minimum resolution I would be comfortable with.

Mike
" Now if they are implying something else, then the simple question is if you knew the oil was too low, then why did you drive car without topping up."- As I said above Mike its a question that can ask.

"They should be at least responsible for all labour on the fix. This would be the minimum resolution I would be comfortable with." - That one over here in the UK would be a hard one to put across, a franchised VW UK dealer will know the issues re taking in custoemrs cars therefore you take over a car presented to you with "eye's wide open"

I've been in the car game now for over 17 years, 3 years running our small service department.

We don't know what to expect from one car to another. When we get the keys we road test the car as presented to us, unless we smeel a rat or the tech's got a gut reaction that says "don't drive this car for X reason. Once the car comes back we diagnose it then vehicle check it. So who's to say that on our initial road test something goes wrong?

Well to a degree it down to me, booking a car in and asking questions. If some one books in for brake pads then its brake pads, whwn we inspect a car, which we always do if we see something that raises concern then its passed to me I call the customer and trust em we've seen loads.

But the turbo thing if this car was in my care and god forbid this has never happended to any car in my care so far but if it did take place I feel that in some way I would I think be obliged to help the customer to a degree, but if the car was on minimum level I;d be asking why is it on the minimum level, when did the customer last check the level, if it was recent then straightaway I;d be asking that if it was checked only reciently yet today it was on the minimum level then there's an issue re oil loss?

Really feel for anyone who's gone through this. spodoinklehorse, you'll have to to a degree follow the individual franchise dealers code of practice on this one I'd say, but if they are boxed into a corner they will I suspect turn the tables and ask questions re servicing, oil, that repalcement turbo etc.
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      06-23-2015, 04:48 PM   #17
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Sorry to hear that Dwayne. I wouldn't be happy at all and there's no way I would be paying that money. Cocktards.
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      06-23-2015, 05:16 PM   #18
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Haven't read all the above posts....

But I wonder if he was left foot braking whilst accelerating to bed the brakes in quicker....loading the turbo up and holding it for extended periods of time...

That said, if the car/engine/turbo were in good mechanical order, there would not be a failure....You could take a perfectly working car and thrash the life out of it round a track and it shouldn't break...
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      06-23-2015, 06:00 PM   #19
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its a really tricky situation

i have seen people drive others cars and bang something happens to it and theyve been driving normally and not thrashing it...

same as timing chains in the other thread...they can go at any time and if it went when the garage was testing it would the garage be at blame then aswell?

its unfair on both partys as a garage could have just been normally driving it and potluck bang and now they are at fault automatically and they must change it

this is the reason i dont let nobody else drive my car as its happened to me before...friend took my car out and a phone call saying it dont start...put me in awkward situation but i ended up forking the bill
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      06-23-2015, 06:23 PM   #20
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Old Grey Steve makes some very interesting comments.

Having been in the trade myself in my younger days, we had this kind of issue when something failed.

Often folks have no idea of the true condition of their car. "Everything is fine" in the customer's eyes, when you know there are impending failures just waiting to happen.

In the old days something like engines with heavy 'breathing', clutches at the top of their travel, gearboxes with noisy or bulking syncros, all conditions waiting for failure. A mechanic taking a car through 'normal' paces could just tip the failure into reality. Seen a few test drives needing recovery, simply on the car's condition being poor.

Not saying this situation applies to the OP, but the fact it is a reconditioned turbo, there are many questions waiting to be asked. If I was the service manager (and pushed into a corner) I'd be asking them, even when prepared to help the customer.

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      06-24-2015, 02:08 AM   #21
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I'm sorry but I have driven a VW Turbo before that takes 6 liters of oil... and I have driven it for a spirited 150 mile trip to Southampton to see a good pal of mine (RIP) and the engine only had 2 liters of oil in it... and it was a stage 1 tune... now I did not know that it was burning oil until the light came up... but the fact that 150 miles of hard driving did nothing to the turbo? So I wonder how low your oil needs to be before it is starved. It was an original Ko3 turbo.. with 58k miles on it... and oil had been changed every 8k miles on this.

What is the mileage on the turbo? How often have you had oil changed? Do you have a tune or turbo timer? Trying to figure out if you have done whatever you can to maintain it. If you ignore your oil change intervals then obviously you may even come across difficulties with the oil feed pipe being full of crud. You can at least make a good case that you took care of the car and maintained it within specification or over and above recommended intervals... that should go in your favour if you have looked after it.

I think whether it was low or not... they noticed it... and they should have addressed this before taking it out for a drive. It is like me saying... oh your fuel tank was on empty so it was going to need filling up anyway... and giving you the car back with no fuel to start it... poor example but trying to make a point of how stupid their argument sounds.

I agree with OGS... they need to meet you half way on this and pay for the labor at least.
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      06-24-2015, 03:47 AM   #22
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If the oil was definitively on the dipstick, even at the minimum mark, the engine was not 'short' of oil, (not the best condition we'll agree) so a bit of a red herring on why the turbo would fail.

More of a concern is how quickly it had dropped from the maximum level, could well be a sign of an impending turbo failure.

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