[AlanAZ]

I remember BMS PBX representatives originally posted dyno chart with gain of 20whp.

I bought a PBX soon after it was released, and I don't recall anything about 20whp, it was 10 and 10. And not at high RPM, but lower down where's it more useful.

An actual PBX buyer did dynos(multiple times) and gained 1~3whp at max. At times, he even made more power stock.

Multiple PBX owners (mike-v, David325Australia, Capo330i, mikeokimster) have done dynos and seen increases consistent with BMS advertised results.

I can confirm that the PBX effect goes go away after a while.

I've gone for six months without changing my PBX setting, and have not experienced any change in performance. I have a 6MT, perhaps it's different with an (ECU controlled) automatic.

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by AlanAZ

I bought a PBX soon after it was released, and I don't recall anything about 20whp, it was 10 and 10. And not at high RPM, but lower down where's it more useful.

Multiple PBX owners (mike-v, David325Australia, Capo330i, mikeokimster) have done dynos and seen increases consistent with BMS advertised results.

I've gone for six months without changing my PBX setting, and have not experienced any change in performance. I have a 6MT, perhaps it's different with an (ECU controlled) automatic.

Summarizing, you gained 10whp and 10wtq. And 3 others gained nearly 20whp without additional tuning or mods. Just based on PBX already tuned PBX map. Correct?

I would love to see those dyno results. If true, that is a very good news for all of us!
Please provide a link. You could post your dyno results here.

[AlanAZ]

Summarizing, you gained 10whp and 10wtq. And 3 others gained nearly 20whp without additional tuning or mods. Just based on PBX already tuned PBX map. Correct?

No. I've have never read or written that the PBX produces gains of 20whp.

I would love to see those dyno results. If true, that is a very good news for all of us!
Please provide a link. You could post your dyno results here.

PBX tuned dynos have been posted in this forum. With your 4,600 posts it's hard to imagine that you haven't already seen them.

It's clear that you have some bone to pick with Burger. Perhaps you bought one and were disappointed in the results, fair enough, post that experience. But I and others have had a positive experience consistent with their advertising, and your bad experience doesn't make that not true.

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by AlanAZ

No. I've have never read or written that the PBX produces gains of 20whp.



PBX tuned dynos have been posted in this forum. With your 4,600 posts it's hard to imagine that you haven't already seen them.

It's clear that you have some bone to pick with Burger. Perhaps you bought one and were disappointed in the results, fair enough, post that experience. But I and others have had a positive experience consistent with their advertising, and your bad experience doesn't make that not true.

Where are the Dyno Results?

I don't need more paragraphs regarding PBX stating stuff like "it works great for me". I read that crap like 5 million times already.

[t1mmy]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

Where are the Dyno Results?

I don't need more paragraphs regarding PBX stating stuff like "it works great for me". I read that crap like 5 million times already.

i've seen them, and i don't even want a pbx, pretty sure it was when i was researching it

[mike-y]

I've posted my dynos in at least 3 different threads. The gains were around 9 ft/lbs to the wheels from around 3000rpm to around 5300 or so, and about the same hp in the same rpm range.. after that, the power gain started to taper off toward redline. I have a 325i though, so it cuts out more timing at the top end compared to a 328 or 330.

No, it's not a huge difference, and if I had to do it all over again, I'd still get it because the throttle mapping makes the car so much better to drive. Even if it had zero gain, I'd get it for the thottle mapping.

I'm currently using it with a 330i 3-stage manifold, and it works fine with that too. Probably better than with the stock manifold, since the car was running a bit rich on the top end with the pbx and stock manifold.

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by t1mmy

i've seen them, and i don't even want a pbx, pretty sure it was when i was researching it

Yeah, I've seen a couple also. None of them convincing.

Originally Posted by mike-y

I've posted my dynos in at least 3 different threads. The gains were around 9 ft/lbs to the wheels from around 3000rpm to around 5300 or so, and about the same hp in the same rpm range.. after that, the power gain started to taper off toward redline. I have a 325i though, so it cuts out more timing at the top end compared to a 328 or 330.

No, it's not a huge difference, and if I had to do it all over again, I'd still get it because the throttle mapping makes the car so much better to drive. Even if it had zero gain, I'd get it for the thottle mapping.

I'm currently using it with a 330i 3-stage manifold, and it works fine with that too. Probably better than with the stock manifold, since the car was running a bit rich on the top end with the pbx and stock manifold.

So about 9hp and 9tq at the *wheels between 3k~5.3k RPM range, correct?
That still is an impressive gain for a naturally aspirated motor, and something already highly tuned like N52. It shows that there still is room for improvement. I've heard very good things about throttle mapping, and I'm sure it provides more exciting driving experience.

What worries me is what happened to SpeedRacer07. According to SpeedRacer07 and his multiple dyno results done over different time periods, it proved that gains were nearly nothing. At the end, he said samething as what 99.9% of the PBX owners say, "throttle mapping is great". Whats credible about his findings is that he did dynos in multiple time periods.

No way in hell I'm against BMS PBX like other member in this thread thinks. I just can't stand people who doesn't know anything about tuning and car performance thinks paying $200 for a throttle map tuning will make their N52s hell of a lot faster than it really is. Mis-informed, soaked by industry's advertisement and marketing strategy.

I really hope BMS PBX really does what it claims to do in terms of power gain. I would purchase it in a heart beat.

[t1mmy]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

Yeah, I've seen a couple also. None of them convincing.

So say that in the beginning and stop continuously asking for dynos. The rest of your post was a legitimate argument / discussion. Not sure why you felt the need to bait people into it though

[Chewy734]

LET tune. It was simple to install through the ODB-II port, I can feel the improvement, and it's completely hidden unless BMW decides to update my software.

[benzo23]

AA, cause AA is the closest thing we have to god here on earth lol

[OwnAge]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

Yeah, I've seen a couple also. None of them convincing.



So about 9hp and 9tq at the *wheels between 3k~5.3k RPM range, correct?
That still is an impressive gain for a naturally aspirated motor, and something already highly tuned like N52. It shows that there still is room for improvement. I've heard very good things about throttle mapping, and I'm sure it provides more exciting driving experience.

What worries me is what happened to SpeedRacer07. According to SpeedRacer07 and his multiple dyno results done over different time periods, it proved that gains were nearly nothing. At the end, he said samething as what 99.9% of the PBX owners say, "throttle mapping is great". Whats credible about his findings is that he did dynos in multiple time periods.

No way in hell I'm against BMS PBX like other member in this thread thinks. I just can't stand people who doesn't know anything about tuning and car performance thinks paying $200 for a throttle map tuning will make their N52s hell of a lot faster than it really is. Mis-informed, soaked by industry's advertisement and marketing strategy.

I really hope BMS PBX really does what it claims to do in terms of power gain. I would purchase it in a heart beat.

COuld be because the ECU started to overwrite the pbx ? lots of ppl say they start to lose the effect of pbx after some time. thats why reset is needed.

Im getting mine hopefully this week. Def not fun reading all this about the PBX after i bought it. Then again, there is no way id pay for AA. At least i can sell the PBX.
Can't wait to find out how pbx feels on my car.

ps abit off topic. Got my software updated yesterday and the car feels slower I hope it is all mental.

[mike-y]

yes, the numbers were at the wheels. It's not a huge difference, and it's only slightly noticeable. For what it's worth, I dynoed the car about 2 weeks after I got the pbx, but once on the dyno, we were switching between maps 0 and 3, so I'm not sure what effect that would have on the computer.

Some of the steptronic cars have horrible throttle mapping, so that's why I like the pbx so much. Faster? probably not much. but "more responsive" is a much better term. The response of the throttle is much more natural and closer to car that has a real throttle cable. I drove a newer model 328i that had better stock throttle mapping than my car does though, so YMMV.


That said, I'm still getting the AA tune because I have the 3 stage manifold. But I've been pleased with the pbx for the ~2 years I've had it.

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by t1mmy

So say that in the beginning and stop continuously asking for dynos. The rest of your post was a legitimate argument / discussion. Not sure why you felt the need to bait people into it though

Not "baiting" anyone. I asked in case if they have something I don't have. What's so bad about that?
My statements are based on facts and proofs I've seen/researched. So if someone comes up to me and tells me that they gained more than what I've seen and learned, I'm asking for proof so that such claim is convincing & true. If proven, I will back up PBX anywhere I go and will purchase it myself. Period. Internet is full of false information and opinions with lack of technical intelligence. I'm not saying I know everything, but obviously a little more than those kids with N52 and PBX attached to it yelling out "omgwtfbbq this is the greatest invention ever". In case you haven't seen the whole trend that occured with PBX since a while ago, there were 100 annoying threads created by PBX owners vouching for the product, yet 99% of them without any factual data to back it up with. Again, IF SHOWN/PROVED, there is no problem. I will have $250 reserved for the product.

What Mike-ysaid above is probably the most sounding statement regarding the PBX.

Originally Posted by OwnAge

COuld be because the ECU started to overwrite the pbx ? lots of ppl say they start to lose the effect of pbx after some time. thats why reset is needed.

Im getting mine hopefully this week. Def not fun reading all this about the PBX after i bought it. Then again, there is no way id pay for AA. At least i can sell the PBX.
Can't wait to find out how pbx feels on my car.

ps abit off topic. Got my software updated yesterday and the car feels slower I hope it is all mental.

One of the members in other BMW forum did question the validity of the dyno BMS PBX posted as none of the N52 PBX customers gained similar power from their vehicles. He mentioned stock air and fuel mixture of 14.7:1 which already is the ideal mixture for maximum burning. Thus, he suspect that PBX dyno result is "simply running on a richer mix right after stoichiometric run". Meaning, the ECU didn't adapt to the rich mixture produced by BMS tune and showed "superficial results". What really caught my eyes were when he said,

I would like to see someone run a stock pull, then put on the software, drive around for a week, then do another pull on the same dyno in about the same condition. I would be wiling to put my professional reputation on the line to say that the second pull with the ECU fully adapted to the conditions will result in no more than 2 hp difference one way or another (in fact may LOSE a HP or two)

This is exactly what happened to SpeedRacer07, and he DID actually lost power from stock. barely though.

However, more technical discussion continued and BMS rep was involved in the discussion. He said that since bmw fuel system uses closed loop widebnd o2 sensors, changes will NOT be learned out. They claimed that they conducted tests over the weeks to test the consistency. Though, who knows.

In my book, rule #1 with product claims = trust the opinions from customers, not manufacturers. Manufacturers can claim anything. Customers, will not claim false information. At least the ones with technical base and knows what they are doing won't. The ones who tested the product professionally themselves...

[OwnAge]

^ I see. I actually drove friends 330 with PBX and many other mods. didnt feel a thing. until he changed back to map 0, then back to map 3, and then i tried my car right after. All i felt on his car was how light it was cause of pbx. Now his whole car was different tho, so lots of changes for me to get used to. I've bought mine mostly just for the hell of it. (mod bug) plus nice stuff been said. Not hoping for HP at although it would be nice to have some. Hoping PBX will be as good as ppl say it is tho. After all I will be putting it in my car and i "hope" i will feel a difference. I def know i can spot it in my car unlike my friend's.
I wish i could do dynos but no way i will spend $ on it. not worth it.

[Raine]

AA tune ftw! Linear throttle, smooth shifts. I'm quite happy with the tune, recommend it to anyone.

[micano]

I had the AA tune done to my 330 2 weeks ago. Immediate changes were the gas pedal. Much more responsive, better heel and toe, and much better torque below 2K. but the biggest surprise has been the MPG. So far I am up ~10% from around 26.5 to 29.4 mixed driving (on the computer). I will have to confirm after the 2nd full tank of gas burnt. So regardless of the dyno figures, this mod will pay for itself!
Very happy with the AA tune.