[StatenEye]

Originally Posted by oyama

Hmm, for now I THINK I will go with the suggestion given by my audio shop, since even you think its worth a shot, I guess it really is worth a try. A single 12" sub.

I was thinking for a pair of w3's, the box got to be big and if the effect is similar to a single w6, maybe I should choose the latter as I can save some weight off the car?

I agree about your Edit 2, going down to 2 ohms is the best choice, my audio shop wasnt sure if my amp is stable maintaining at 1 ohm.
They were saying, if my amp isnt suitable, they suggest an amp, something 500, forgot the brand.

You were saying "you can always switch to a smaller sealed enclosure", comparing to the ported design (about 1/2 size of my current box).
I wanna ask, by then, the sealed box would be pretty small already, maybe smaller then 1/2 the size of my current box, will it still be effective?

My coilovers are not here yet, 1-2 weeks more, so got some time to decide.

If you need a Jl W3 pm me. I have one sitting in my closet. I used it for 2 or 3weeks before upgrading to a W6. Ill let it go cheap.

[oyama]

Anyone to confirm, for 1 JLw6 sub, will there be specs for box dimensions recommendations in the manual?

I was thinking if the size of the box is something like below, is it ok?Just rough numbers.
Just hoping it will sound better then my current 2 P2 setup.

[kaigoss69]

You have heard of this invention called the internet right?

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/7876.pdf

[oyama]

Haha. Right.
Maybe I should ask another question, it seems the recommended size for the ported box, is even bigger then my current box. LOL.

Will I have the same problems again?

If I were to decrease the size, will it affect much?
Should I even decrease the size?

You were saying most 12" subs should be in "less than 1 cu.ft", but the design in the manual says 1.5 cu.ft? Too big?

[kaigoss69]

Well the W6 is such a powerful sub that in a sealed box it probably requires a little more air space than a normal woofer, due to its high excursion capabilities. The smaller you make a sealed box, the more difficult it becomes for the cone to expand and compress the air inside it (more resistance) and the reduced cone movement will result in less SPL. However, at the same time, you are making the bass more precise and "punchy". I have always made my sealed enclosures a bit smaller than what the manufacturer recommended, to get that very effect.

As far as the vented enclosure is concerned, it is a bit more complicated. Talk with you shop. They should have the software to calculate different box and port sizes to fit your particular music taste and make it fit in your car at the same time.

What I can tell you with certainty is that you will be able to get away with a smaller enclosure if it is sealed, rather than vented.

The shape of your enclosure does not really affect the sound very much so your shop can build one that best fits your car and allows you to keep some trunk space.

All this talk about the W6 makes me wanna get one now, damn!

[wurz154]

Hi there,
had my program running with the sub ... here are the results:
all of these are for high fidelity results...
sealed..... 0.6 cu.ft (internal) approxcimately 17"x10"x6"
vented.....2.36 cu.ft (internal) app. 26x16x10 with round port of 3"(diameter) x17"(lenght) or slot port of (5.3"x2")x26" long.
running the program it coould go as small as .6 cu.ft vented, but the port needs to be 48" long... WOW!!
Enjoy
Cheers Max

[dvpouldar26]

Your problem is that all your bass is blocked off fromm reaching the cabin. as for the rattling. Dynamat or hushmat everything. For the cleanliness of the sound, buy a more powerful amp and turn your gain down. your gain is possibly too high causing distortion. You can cut a hole in the ski pass or cut a vent into your rear parcel shelf and make sure you dynamat that with multiple layers. folding the seats won't do anything for you because you are sealed off towards the trunk. try making a setip where you can bend your seats down, or where the subs face forwards into the cabin. when the seats are down, you can fold over the ski pass. Or you can bandpass it into your cabin and seal it off from the trunk. From my experiences with car audio, i would also try a differend enclosure. seled boxes suck. period. They have great response, but thats about it. They aren't that good for output. 90% of the sound is from an enclosure, so get an enclosure specifically designed for you music, lostening style, car and subs. not just some sealed box. You will be greatly surprised. Ive seen an 8" sub on 100w hit harder than 2 12's in a sealed enclosure on 1000w. Its all in the enclosure.

[oyama]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

Well the W6 is such a powerful sub that in a sealed box it probably requires a little more air space than a normal woofer, due to its high excursion capabilities. The smaller you make a sealed box, the more difficult it becomes for the cone to expand and compress the air inside it (more resistance) and the reduced cone movement will result in less SPL. However, at the same time, you are making the bass more precise and "punchy". I have always made my sealed enclosures a bit smaller than what the manufacturer recommended, to get that very effect.

As far as the vented enclosure is concerned, it is a bit more complicated. Talk with you shop. They should have the software to calculate different box and port sizes to fit your particular music taste and make it fit in your car at the same time.

What I can tell you with certainty is that you will be able to get away with a smaller enclosure if it is sealed, rather than vented.

The shape of your enclosure does not really affect the sound very much so your shop can build one that best fits your car and allows you to keep some trunk space.

All this talk about the W6 makes me wanna get one now, damn!

Haha, why dont we both get the W6 and do a review?
Especially with your complicated box right now?
Guess I will discuss with my audio shop for the sizing.

[oyama]

Originally Posted by wurz154

Hi there,
had my program running with the sub ... here are the results:
all of these are for high fidelity results...
sealed..... 0.6 cu.ft (internal) approxcimately 17"x10"x6"
vented.....2.36 cu.ft (internal) app. 26x16x10 with round port of 3"(diameter) x17"(lenght) or slot port of (5.3"x2")x26" long.
running the program it coould go as small as .6 cu.ft vented, but the port needs to be 48" long... WOW!!
Enjoy
Cheers Max

Hmmm, may I ask where do you get the software?

[oyama]

Originally Posted by dvpouldar26

Your problem is that all your bass is blocked off fromm reaching the cabin. as for the rattling. Dynamat or hushmat everything. For the cleanliness of the sound, buy a more powerful amp and turn your gain down. your gain is possibly too high causing distortion. You can cut a hole in the ski pass or cut a vent into your rear parcel shelf and make sure you dynamat that with multiple layers. folding the seats won't do anything for you because you are sealed off towards the trunk. try making a setip where you can bend your seats down, or where the subs face forwards into the cabin. when the seats are down, you can fold over the ski pass. Or you can bandpass it into your cabin and seal it off from the trunk. From my experiences with car audio, i would also try a differend enclosure. seled boxes suck. period. They have great response, but thats about it. They aren't that good for output. 90% of the sound is from an enclosure, so get an enclosure specifically designed for you music, lostening style, car and subs. not just some sealed box. You will be greatly surprised. Ive seen an 8" sub on 100w hit harder than 2 12's in a sealed enclosure on 1000w. Its all in the enclosure.

Hey buddy, thx for the comments.
I guess everyone have different preferences about sealed and ported boxes, and I guess ported is the way to go for SPL.

What you have said have return me back to square 1, whereby should I face my new smaller ported box facing the cabin or the rear.
Someone mentioned about some theory sayin the sub facing rear is better, but my bro suggested facing the front and cut the ski hole.

For the rattling, there are some parts of the car where I cant dynamat, like the autoseat belt thingy + rear sun visors, thats the problem, unless I disconnect both, which is quite extreme. Sigh.

[wurz154]

Hi there,
the program I am using is BassBox Pro from PE..
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=500-923
here are some more ... also free...
http://www.speakerbuilding.com/software/

but the BasBox has a continuos up to date speaker list... it also merge with the x-over program
a Must have for speaker builder...
Max

[oyama]

Hey thanks for the program, I will intro my audio shop to it.

Anyway I would like to say thank you to everyone for all your time reading my crap and helping me out.

I also asked my bro who stayed overseas and being a regular competitor in autosalons, he asked his audio installer and they suggested other subs like kickers/hertz/MA Audio/Rockford T1 instead and said JL isnt a very likeable brand there, weird eh.

They say, the best way of getting the best sound out of the smallest box is, just get a 10" sub and face it through the ski hole, done. Hmmmm

[dvpouldar26]

Originally Posted by oyama

Hey buddy, thx for the comments.
I guess everyone have different preferences about sealed and ported boxes, and I guess ported is the way to go for SPL.

What you have said have return me back to square 1, whereby should I face my new smaller ported box facing the cabin or the rear.
Someone mentioned about some theory sayin the sub facing rear is better, but my bro suggested facing the front and cut the ski hole.

For the rattling, there are some parts of the car where I cant dynamat, like the autoseat belt thingy + rear sun visors, thats the problem, unless I disconnect both, which is quite extreme. Sigh.

Just changing the subs and amp into the type of enclosure you have right now would be redundant. It wouldn't make much of a difference because your sound is blocked off from the cabin. I was going to build a custom enclosure like this for an e46 m3 where the subs are facing towards the front of the car, or the rear. Then around that enclosure which the sub is in, there is another enclosure which seals off all the bass from the trunk, and directs it either towards the rear parcel shelf, or a hole that was going to be cut in the ski pass. You seal that vent to the cabin, and no sound will go to the trunk, creating clean, loud bass. You will get rid of the rattles from the trunk, and won't lose sound to insulation, but the other rattles caused by vibrations of the car are inevitable. In my X5 my subs make the gas cap flap open and closed, but there is nothing i can do about it, or such as the console and headliner vibrating. My other friend did this in a e46 m3 convertibe with 2 12" JL w3v2 where he bandpasses it to the cabin and it sounded good.

You cannot assume facing the subs towards the rear is better. Every car is different because their cabin geometry and setup is different. Sound reflects off different surfaces in different ways. Some car prefer subs facing forward, some towards the passenger side, some towards the fron, some towards the right. You just have to play with it, and see what makes the best improvement in sound. Some just say face it towards the rear because the sound wave wil bounce towards the back off the rear of the car and reflect forward, but every car is different.

Seal the enclosure off to the cabin, and get a better designed enclosure that wont only increase output, but also SQ and accuracy, and i think you'll be pleasanly surprised.

[oyama]

Hey dvpouldar26, thanks for the detailed advice, you mentioned exactly the same words as my bro's installer!
Basically you need the bass to go in the cabin and the rear seats are blocking them off, simply cause they are too good insulating sound right, and you cant get that "perfect" sound no matter what you do with the box.

I think Im gonna cut the skihole and have the sub face through it, best option with your logical theory right?

I have 3 questions though.

1.If it is ported, will you have the sub OR the ported hole face through the cut skihole?

2.You also mentioned that "there is should be another enclosure which seals off all the bass from the trunk", so should I keep my current design, as in the "board" which covers the current 2 subs.
Everyone says that "board" kept the bass from goin in the cabin in my current setup, now that I face the 1 sub to the front and its goin in the skihole, should I retain the board to prevent the bass from going to the rear? Or I should keep that as an option for the future and try out the bass 1st?

3."Better designed enclosure that wont only increase output, but also SQ and accuracy", you mean the sizing of the box? Or you mean the sealed/ported?
I know for SQ and accuracy, sealed is better right. And ported is for loudness. But to increase everything including loudness?
My bro was suggested sealed as he said ported boxes are usually still as big and I may complain it still being heavy. haha.

[dvpouldar26]

Originally Posted by oyama

Hey dvpouldar26, thanks for the detailed advice, you mentioned exactly the same words as my bro's installer!
Basically you need the bass to go in the cabin and the rear seats are blocking them off, simply cause they are too good insulating sound right, and you cant get that "perfect" sound no matter what you do with the box.

I think Im gonna cut the skihole and have the sub face through it, best option with your logical theory right?

I have 3 questions though.

1.If it is ported, will you have the sub OR the ported hole face through the cut skihole?

2.You also mentioned that "there is should be another enclosure which seals off all the bass from the trunk", so should I keep my current design, as in the "board" which covers the current 2 subs.
Everyone says that "board" kept the bass from goin in the cabin in my current setup, now that I face the 1 sub to the front and its goin in the skihole, should I retain the board to prevent the bass from going to the rear? Or I should keep that as an option for the future and try out the bass 1st?

3."Better designed enclosure that wont only increase output, but also SQ and accuracy", you mean the sizing of the box? Or you mean the sealed/ported?
I know for SQ and accuracy, sealed is better right. And ported is for loudness. But to increase everything including loudness?
My bro was suggested sealed as he said ported boxes are usually still as big and I may complain it still being heavy. haha.

I would have both the port and sub facing through the ski hole. And i would keep that baffle or beauty panel so you could block the bass from entering your trunk. What i mean by an enclosure in an enclouse is basically like a bandpass style enclosure such as in this pic:



Except that the port is going to be your opening for your ski pass. This way all the bass is directed towards the cabin. And this is only 1 type of bandpass. There are many kinds. A good example of a nice looking enclosure such as this is like in this pic:



This is a blow-through enclosure in a truck, but just imagine that instead of the port where the plexigless is, that that is where your ski pass is. In doing this, your bass is sealed off.

Also, there are more types of enclosures that just sealed and ported. Sealed is widely used because it is punchy, because the rear wave from the woofer is sealed off creating an enclosure with tight responsive bass. With ported, the rear wave accentuates the front wave of the woofer, tuned to a specific frquency dictated by port legnth and area. This creates looser sounding bass, that is louder because the front wave is accentuated by the rear wave. But there are many other types of enclosures such as Transmission lines, 4th order bandpass, 6 order bandpass, voigt tubes, etc. Ported boxes usually have to be bigger because of the included volume of the port. Sealed boxes are usually smaller. Some people put their subs in excessively small sealed enclosures that make a boomy sound. These are much smaller that recommended specs. There isn't much enclosure volume behind the woofer so the pressure behind the woofer causes a loud boomy response.
If I were you, I'd build a 4th order bandpass.

[T33KKS]

ok, well i have 2 JL 12" w6v2 subwoofers running off a JL 1000/1 amp. still no bass in the car :|

sory if its late but hey!!

i have a 2005 e90 no ski hole and ant put seats down