[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by Prince ///M

I simply can not understand why one would add the possibility of failure of another transceiver or to increase computational load to the Procede controller for minor features unrelated to vehicle performances. It will work, but 'cui prodest'?

Probably is just the point of view of an old fashioned mechanical engineer educated with the 'less is more' concept.

If the risk is increased from 1 in billion to 2 in a billion is it really an issue for you? This is what I dont understand. You are complaining of risk without quantifying it.

'cui prodest'? Shouldnt this have been the first thing you asked before emphasing an undefined risk? Has Vishnu defined all the new feature sets this method would introduce? Even if this introduces just an indash boost gauge then I know I would benefit from it. I believe Im not alone nor in the minority. I also believe I have a very clear picture of the actual risk assessment and it doesnt phase me.

But I suppose we all should be more content with 2 mirrors on our vehicles (driver + rear) instead of 3, since the introduction of that 3rd mirror increases the risk of a mirror failure....

[Prince ///M]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

If the risk is increased from 1 in billion to 2 in a billion is it really an issue for you? This is what I dont understand. You are complaining of risk without quantifying it.

'cui prodest'? Shouldnt this have been the first thing you asked before emphasing an undefined risk? Has Vishnu defined all the new feature sets this method would introduce? Even if this introduces just an indash boost gauge then I know I would benefit from it. I believe Im not alone nor in the minority. I also believe I have a very clear picture of the actual risk assessment and it doesnt phase me.

But I suppose we all should be more content with 2 mirrors on our vehicles (driver + rear) instead of 3, since the introduction of that 3rd mirror increases the risk of a mirror failure....

If the failure of a microcontroller (or software) is really 1 in a billion I'm a very, VERY unlucky guy

P.S.
In fact my superbike don't have any mirror in order to avoid the problem you mentioned.

[jale france]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

There's plenty of info in the screen shot I posted up in the first thread. I'm sorry if you can't make heads or tails of it. And being that the PROcede is the first piggyback to actively monitor canbus data, read/clear codes, offer realtime meth map switching, offer actual ignition timing, true direct boost control, fuel pressure control, datalogging, dash displays, etc,. I think it's a bit unfair to say that it delivers less than it promises.

Shiv

Adrian or shiv can you reply on to this post ?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...=320011&page=7

PS : you have an email, check your mailbox
Thanks

[reno808]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

You are going to have to correlate the timing pull event(s) to this external knock monitor. The DME may not agree with your knock monitor on what is/isnt a knock event, so using the knock monitor by itself may prove to be a wild goose chase.

No definitely not. I am sorry to say you are completely wrong. Its nothing against you, but you have do not know what I am talking about. I am not sure what kind of tuning experience do you have or experience in the subject matter. Its not a wild goose chase. As matter of fact its a wild goose chase tuning without one. Let me explain what i am trying to say. Now you can quote me on this because i have tons of experience in tuning, stand alone, and piggy backs. feel free to question me. I have a seperate knock monitor for my porsche aside from the knock monitor built in to my stand alone.

For example when ever u install a knock monitor u must tune the knock monitor while being on the dyno 1st and then under track conditions. Now the reason why u do this is because depending on the location of the senor and the monitor it self u must determine the sensitivity and intensity of the signal. hence operating range of 0-5v. you can have it spike at .9v if u want to. If u want me to explain how u would tune the knock monitor on the dyno let me know.

The reason why i am stressing the knock monitor which Shiv has failed to respond to i dunno why. is because this allows you to see how much timing u can push before you start to ping this is super important when dealing with boost and fuel grade that many of us deal with. The stand alone that i have which is a Link System is capable of retarding ignition and adding fuel when knock is picked up; this also goes for the BMW dme as well. Still I find it important to know if you further needed to drop the boost or ignition given the conditions and fuel octane, instead of only relying on the ECU's ability to perform instant damage control before u kill ur engine when you start getting to the max out. the closer u come to the max the safety margin for detonation becomes increasingly small before something bad can happen from all of that cylinder pressure which creates tremendous amount of heat hence why most ppl blow their head gaskets.

This is not a personal attack. Just tired of ppl ignoring the importance of tuning and giving useless information when they should be giving important features.

[bolty]

Originally Posted by reno808

Now you can quote me on this because i have tons of experience in tuning, stand alone, and piggy backs. feel free to question me.

Arent you the same guy that took so much care to gently break in the motor of a loaner??

Or was that a joke?? I didnt bother reading past the first page.

[reno808]

Originally Posted by bolty

Arent you the same guy that took so much care to gently break in the motor of a loaner??

Or was that a joke?? I didnt bother reading past the first page.

Yes that was me. It was a big joke. Type of person I am like to enjoy things. It was very funny how ppl got bent out of shape without knowing any actual facts. Actually someone with lots of time in there hands called the dealership and they laughed about it and told me. I go to the dealership all the time i have many friends there so they made a big joke out of it.

BTW i like the allen bolt as ur avatar

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by reno808

No definitely not. I am sorry to say you are completely wrong.....

Completely? Interesting, then along comes this...

Originally Posted by reno808

For example when ever u install a knock monitor u must tune the knock monitor while being on the dyno 1st and then under track conditions. Now the reason why u do this is because depending on the location of the senor and the monitor it self u must determine the sensitivity and intensity of the signal. hence operating range of 0-5v. you can have it spike at .9v if u want to.

Whether or not you realize it, this calibration process is doing precisely what I stated. Im also aware of the capacitive function and application of a knock sensor. If you notice I mention the DME in my statement. It is arguably far more capable of determining an actual knock event then your monitor, which is why the calibration process should try to use the DME or monitor the timing controlled by the DME to correlate the event if possible. Otherwise you may end up getting false positives on your monitor.

[reno808]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

Completely? Interesting, then along comes this...



Whether or not you realize it, this calibration process is doing precisely what I stated. Im also aware of the capacitive function and application of a knock sensor. If you notice I mention the DME in my statement. It is arguably far more capable of determining an actual knock event then your monitor, which is why the calibration process should try to use the DME or monitor the timing controlled by the DME to correlate the event if possible. Otherwise you may end up getting false positives on your monitor.

Your saying that the DME might not agree to the Knock monitor if that is the car then change ur knock monitor then its worthless. My knock monitor is in SYNC with my stand alone and before i standalone it was also in sync with the Porsche Bosch DME. thats why i stated u need a dyno so u can try to replicate conditions with knock would accur even thou that super hard to do because when ur at track its super different

[reno808]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

It is arguably far more capable of determining an actual knock event then your monitor, which is why the calibration process should try to use the DME or monitor the timing controlled by the DME to correlate the event if possible. Otherwise you may end up getting false positives on your monitor.

yes true and thats when u run into (engine noise) well with these engine is not a bad as a high reving 4 cycl for example. thats why one would tap into the same knock sensor as the DME is tap into. so you can get the same exact signal. and u can tune out the noises with the knock monitor. However if the Vinshu can give u the exact readings from the knock then u wont need a knock monitor

[bolty]

Originally Posted by reno808

Yes that was me. It was a big joke. Type of person I am like to enjoy things. It was very funny how ppl got bent out of shape without knowing any actual facts. Actually someone with lots of time in there hands called the dealership and they laughed about it and told me. I go to the dealership all the time i have many friends there so they made a big joke out of it.

BTW i like the allen bolt as ur avatar

Thank you, I like my avatar too.

Didnt you also claim to have had custom dp's made for your Porsche, which then cracked? You were supposed to post pictures but never did.

You also claimed that if you blew an engine, your dad would pay for it.

When I watched that vid, and heard the laughing like little bitches, I got sick to my stomach. Trolling the forums with that shit will get you ALOT of respect around here. Youre doing a great job.

[dmurray14]

Originally Posted by reno808

Yes that was me. It was a big joke. Type of person I am like to enjoy things. It was very funny how ppl got bent out of shape without knowing any actual facts. Actually someone with lots of time in there hands called the dealership and they laughed about it and told me. I go to the dealership all the time i have many friends there so they made a big joke out of it.

BTW i like the allen bolt as ur avatar

No, you're the type of person to make a clown of yourself and then later try to cover for it. I have no respect for people who don't respect others' property.

In this thread it's clear you're not even comprehending what HighVoltage is saying. Why don't you run along now?

[reno808]

Originally Posted by bolty

Thank you, I like my avatar too.

Didnt you also claim to have had custom dp's made for your Porsche, which then cracked? You were supposed to post pictures but never did.

You also claimed that if you blew an engine, your dad would pay for it.

When I watched that vid, and heard the laughing like little bitches, I got sick to my stomach. Trolling the forums with that shit will get you ALOT of respect around here. Youre doing a great job.

My custom dp's did not crack. I have these aftermarket dp that cracked. I was joking my dad would never do that because its not him and he does not have the money. Ha yes i am very little bitch. dam get over it its a forum. If u dont like it tuff

[reno808]

Originally Posted by dmurray14

No, you're the type of person to make a clown of yourself and then later try to cover for it. I have no respect for people who don't respect others' property.

In this thread it's clear you're not even comprehending what HighVoltage is saying. Why don't you run along now?

I am not covering for anything. When did i. That cool if u have dont have any respect for me i wont lose any sleep.

How i am not comprehending what HighVoltage is saying????????? The thing is u have no clue what ur reading so thats why ur not the one comprehending. So please if u have something useful to add to this technical thread please do so dont bash cus i have done nothing wrong in this thread and all of my post have been useful and correct. How about u read it and take some notes

[stressdoc]

Please chill on the personal crap and keep posts OnT.

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by reno808

Your saying that the DME might not agree to the Knock monitor if that is the car then change ur knock monitor then its worthless. My knock monitor is in SYNC with my stand alone and before i standalone it was also in sync with the Porsche Bosch DME. thats why i stated u need a dyno so u can try to replicate conditions with knock would accur even thou that super hard to do because when ur at track its super different

Originally Posted by reno808

yes true and thats when u run into (engine noise) well with these engine is not a bad as a high reving 4 cycl for example. thats why one would tap into the same knock sensor as the DME is tap into. so you can get the same exact signal. and u can tune out the noises with the knock monitor. However if the Vinshu can give u the exact readings from the knock then u wont need a knock monitor

That’s the issue. What are you going to use as data points to filter the noises from a knock event? Will those points meet or exceed the capabilities of the DME? If not then you will end up restricting your power output.

My apologies to everyone if I have derailed this thread..

The duration and the amplitude of the knock sensor signal have to be compared to the specific “noise” state of the engine at that particular moment. I believe it also undergoes a process of adaptation to account for wear on the internals and viarances in tolerance, which may account for a miss in the occasional knock event. That’s just speculation on my part though. However it is not quite as simple as sticking a voltmeter on there and looking for a spike. For optimal performance the DME is always going to try pushing the engine to the edge. It expects to incur some limited knock and then back off. That is where all the real hard work is done. If you start relying solely on an external knock monitor with no correlation to the DME’s knowledge of the engine’s internal state then, if you pull the variable envelopes in on the tune, you may not be allowing the engine to maximize its performance. In fact, you may be misinterpreting a knock event with another internal event (false positive).

This is a minor point but you are also assuming there is only one sensor. I don’t know if this platform uses more than one but in the future, as the trend evolves towards small displacement turbo/supercharge engines you will see multiple sensors and dedicated DSPs to handle this detection process. The DME on this platform may already do so. I know of at least one manufacture (Bosch CC195/CC196) that offers a dedicated chip to process just this sort of setup.

In any case that’s why you inevitably have to run tests with the external monitor to calibrate some aspect of the signal to an event directly controlled by the DME (i.e. timing) or some other systemic event (power loss). In the end with the Procede’s logging ability an external knock monitor may not be necessary as the Procede already monitors timing, IAT, etc. What may arguably be missing is a more convenient method to extract that event, which an external knock monitor may provide if correctly calibrated.

Unfortunately there seems to be no way to get direct, consistent access to the knock event from the DME. If the flag via CANbus were latched, incremental or generated a COS message then it likely be more feasible.

I would kind of like to see the Procede introduce it’s own knock event detector. Provided there is enough processor bandwidth, ram and flash to store all of the pertinent variables in a window large enough to catch the event (maybe 3 or 4), then it should be possible. In this way you would not have to do any real time logging and could download a window of the event at a later time. Perhaps it could also use it’s current (albeit somewhat limited) access to the DTC/DTS display icon to let you know right away, although if you are loosing traction that may become confusing.

I suppose the real caveat is that the Procede is trying to actively prevent knock so in the end it may all prove counterproductive...

My apologies to everyone if this has derailed the thread...

[Kelvin1000]

Where Are The After Logs?

And where in the world is Shiv???

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

This is a minor point but you are also assuming there is only one sensor. I don’t know if this platform uses more than one but in the future, as the trend evolves towards small displacement turbo/supercharge engines you will see multiple sensors and dedicated DSPs to handle this detection process.

The N54 has two knock sensors.

[TMR]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

Where Are The After Logs?

And where in the world is Shiv???

+1

[Kelvin1000]

Shiv has been MIA for quite some time. I wonder what he is up to...?

[supracg]

hmmmm ^+1...ETA for all this? updates?

[jpsimon]

whenever he goes silent, an update is released. when he goes silent for a while, a big update is released. be patient, the next update is huge.

[luca335i]

When when when when?!!!