[JPuehl]

I'm interested in upgrading the turbo on my car and am interested in feedback on which would have the best ROI for what I want/have? I have a '12 135i with N55, a JB4 with BMS BEF via MHD and I don't plan to spend the same amount of money on a new tune. I have an upgraded FMIC, new turbo inlet/outlet, CP and catless downpipe. I plan to only run 92 octane as that's what's mostly available in my area, and no access to E gas to blend. I have access to 100 octane unleaded that I use occasionally, like when I when I drag the car for fun. I'm not going to run meth. My car also has a DCT and don't want the clutches to start slipping. My car is mainly my DD and my wife and I autocross race it whenever we can. The turbo is about the last thing I plan to upgrade and just want to get the most out of the setup I currently have, so no real HP target in mind. I appreciate any feedback.

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by JPuehl

I'm interested in upgrading the turbo on my car and am interested in feedback on which would have the best ROI for what I want/have? I have a '12 135i with N55, a JB4 with BMS BEF via MHD and I don't plan to spend the same amount of money on a new tune. I have an upgraded FMIC, new turbo inlet/outlet, CP and catless downpipe. I plan to only run 92 octane as that's what's mostly available in my area, and no access to E gas to blend. I have access to 100 octane unleaded that I use occasionally, like when I when I drag the car for fun. I'm not going to run meth. My car also has a DCT and don't want the clutches to start slipping. My car is mainly my DD and my wife and I autocross race it whenever we can. The turbo is about the last thing I plan to upgrade and just want to get the most out of the setup I currently have, so no real HP target in mind. I appreciate any feedback.

You can run more boost on the same octane with the PS2 than you can with the PS1. On 92 octane only you should expect power to be the same or slightly higher than a maxed out PS1. You will be limited by your HPFP if you want to turn up the boost when running 100 octane but you can adjust the timing on the BEF once you cannot run anymore boost.

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by Turbod

You can run more boost on the same octane with the PS2 than you can with the PS1. On 92 octane only you should expect power to be the same or slightly higher than a maxed out PS1. You will be limited by your HPFP if you want to turn up the boost when running 100 octane but you can adjust the timing on the BEF once you cannot run anymore boost.

Thanks for the response. By "more boost" do you mean a higher boost level, like more than 17 psi or consistent boost to say 6000 rpm, like 17 psi from 3500 - 6000?

I think the latter is a given with the upgraded turbos but wouldn't the amount of boost be partly dependant on the octane which wouldn't change?

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by JPuehl

Thanks for the response. By "more boost" do you mean a higher boost level, like more than 17 psi or consistent boost to say 6000 rpm, like 17 psi from 3500 - 6000?

I think the latter is a given with the upgraded turbos but wouldn't the amount of boost be partly dependant on the octane which wouldn't change?

You don't gain any headroom with the PS1. You can run more boost up top but if you want to bump up the entire curve you'll need higher octane. As for the PS2 I have the same amount of timing corrections at 16 psi as I used to with 12 psi on the stock turbo. The PS2 cost significantly more and I think the justification is that improvement alone. I have not installed the PS2 on my X1 which should have the same HPFP as you so I don't know at what point it will struggle without any ethanol blends.

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by Turbod

You don't gain any headroom with the PS1. You can run more boost up top but if you want to bump up the entire curve you'll need higher octane. As for the PS2 I have the same amount of timing corrections at 16 psi as I used to with 12 psi on the stock turbo. The PS2 cost significantly more and I think the justification is that improvement alone. I have not installed the PS2 on my X1 which should have the same HPFP as you so I don't know at what point it will struggle without any ethanol blends.

Thanks again for the response. I spoke to my wife about this last night and of course she said that I may as well get the PS2 so I'm not maxed out on the PS1 from the beginning. She just got an '13 E93 335i and wants me to ask if we can get a discount for buying 2 of them, lol. I told her she's got some other upgrades to do first.

Anyway I'd be interested in learning how a different turbo can allow an engine to use higher boost but only have timing corrections equal to a turbo producing lower boost levels, unless you also went up in octane?

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by JPuehl

Thanks again for the response. I spoke to my wife about this last night and of course she said that I may as well get the PS2 so I'm not maxed out on the PS1 from the beginning. She just got an '13 E93 335i and wants me to ask if we can get a discount for buying 2 of them, lol. I told her she's got some other upgrades to do first.

Anyway I'd be interested in learning how a different turbo can allow an engine to use higher boost but only have timing corrections equal to a turbo producing lower boost levels, unless you also went up in octane?

If you speak to Pure directly I'm sure they would help you out on pricing. I need to find me a wife like that, congrats.

I know others here could explain this more thoroughly than I can but here is what I know. Boost is measured by resistance. You cannot build pressure without resistance. In our cars things such as the catalytic converter, intercooler plumbing, or even the turbo exhaust manifold are restrictive. Freeing up those restrictions will allow for more airflow, less restriction, lower boost, and less heat. Because of that you will make more power at the same boost level. From there I really couldn't explain why you are able to achieve more boost with the same octane and timing. It was something I observed first hand after the upgrade though.

[Ozzie335i]

Originally Posted by JPuehl

Thanks again for the response. I spoke to my wife about this last night and of course she said that I may as well get the PS2 so I'm not maxed out on the PS1 from the beginning. She just got an '13 E93 335i and wants me to ask if we can get a discount for buying 2 of them, lol. I told her she's got some other upgrades to do first.

Anyway I'd be interested in learning how a different turbo can allow an engine to use higher boost but only have timing corrections equal to a turbo producing lower boost levels, unless you also went up in octane?

I like how your espousa thinks. Early on pretty much everybody that bought a Pure 1 ended up going for the Pure 2, myself included. Save the time / effort / labour (for Pladi and the boys up north) and get the 2. Whenever a driver has the inkling to go for more power, the next upgrade is never the last one. In six months we'll be talking about port injection, e content and a custom tune.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Stage 2

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by Ozzie335i

I like how your espousa thinks. Early on pretty much everybody that bought a Pure 1 ended up going for the Pure 2, myself included. Save the time / effort / labour (for Pladi and the boys up north) and get the 2. Whenever a driver has the inkling to go for more power, the next upgrade is never the last one. In six months we'll be talking about port injection, e content and a custom tune.

Originally Posted by Ozzie335i

Whenever a driver has the inkling to go for more power, the next upgrade is never the last one. In six months we'll be talking about port injection, e content and a custom tune.

Good point. At first I thought the FMIC and JB4 would be enough, then the CP, then the inlet/outlets and why not a catless DP. Now comes the turbo upgrade. Unfortunately meth will probably be next given the lack of E available in WA. I've been trying to resist the upgrades because my car was supposed to go to my daughter when she is ready to drive and I get something new. Needless to say she won't be getting my car with all the upgrades.

[tyson413]

PS2 for sure

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by JPuehl

Unfortunately meth will probably be next given the lack of E available in WA.

Assuming you do not have an early built 2012 you would want to add methanol over running ethanol mixtures because of your HPFP's limited ability.

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by Turbod

Assuming you do not have an early built 2012 you would want to add methanol over running ethanol mixtures because of your HPFP's limited ability.

So an early '12 has a "better" HPFP? I'll look into that and see if that should be upgraded.

[Kevin39]

Yes the 2011s and early 2012s have the same pumps as the N54s which has a higher flow capacity. The aftermarket XDI pump for the later years isn't cheap and I believe you'd have to have the tune adjusted to run it but I don't know the specifics. Mine is a 2011.

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by JPuehl

So an early '12 has a "better" HPFP? I'll look into that and see if that should be upgraded.

As Kevin said, anything before 3/2012 has the N54 style pump. It was also recently discovered that the HPFP was capped at 65% duty cycle and you can turn it up by making adjustments in the DME. As of right now the only viable solution for people with the newer plunger style HPFP is the XDI pumps which are really expensive.

[JPuehl]

Originally Posted by Turbod

As Kevin said, anything before 3/2012 has the N54 style pump. It was also recently discovered that the HPFP was capped at 65% duty cycle and you can turn it up by making adjustments in the DME. As of right now the only viable solution for people with the newer plunger style HPFP is the XDI pumps which are really expensive.

I think I lucked out as mine was build in 6/2011, so it's a very early 2012.

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by JPuehl

I think I lucked out as mine was build in 6/2011, so it's a very early 2012.

It is still early in learning the new limits of the HPFP but I have heard people say E30-E50 at 23psi. I wish this had been around when I had my 335i.

[Kevin39]

Originally Posted by Turbod

It was also recently discovered that the HPFP was capped at 65% duty cycle and you can turn it up by making adjustments in the DME.

This is for the older style pumps? I've not heard anything about this. I don't know how I missed it.

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by Kevin39

This is for the older style pumps? I've not heard anything about this. I don't know how I missed it.

It hasn't really been announced yet as they are still working on it. From my understanding it wasn't Twisted Tuning that defined the new tables but that they will more than likely be shared soon. That would make E50 or maybe even E85 OTS maps possible for the stock turbo. You would need a LPFP upgrade however.

[ferocity02]

Originally Posted by Turbod

It hasn't really been announced yet as they are still working on it. From my understanding it wasn't Twisted Tuning that defined the new tables but that they will more than likely be shared soon. That would make E50 or maybe even E85 OTS maps possible for the stock turbo. You would need a LPFP upgrade however.

Does this apply to the late E-series HPFP?

[Turbod]

Originally Posted by ferocity02

Does this apply to the late E-series HPFP?

No, you would be looking for XDI for an upgrade. There is a thread on N54tech discussing the use of the B58 HPFP which should yield a small improvement.

[ferocity02]

Originally Posted by Turbod

No, you would be looking for XDI for an upgrade. There is a thread on N54tech discussing the use of the B58 HPFP which should yield a small improvement.

Yeah, the cost of the B58 pump is like $1100. For that price PI would be a better alternative unless you can find a used pump.

[Kevin39]

Turbod, that's awesome. Thanks for the heads up. I've already got the Fuel-it bucketed stage 2 and upgraded lines to the ethanol sensor.