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Experts please comment on the below upgrade below I pull the trigger
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08-28-2010, 04:48 AM | #1 |
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Experts please comment on the below upgrade below I pull the trigger
2010 E90 LCI 325i Asia spec (2.5L 218hp Engine) with:
* IDrive * Ipod USB * Hifi Speaker (10 speaker) Not at all happy with the stock setup. My last car (pre LCI E90 335i with Hifi) had the same setup and I upgraded the speakers to these custom speakers which were modified Arc KAR speakers for e90 (only available in Japan) which made things bearable. Now I am in Hong Kong and spoke to an installer who seemed to know quite a bit, however I have seen some experts hanging out here with lots of experience so I want to run by the proposed setup before I pull the trigger. I don't want any cutting etc. and want a very stock looking setup. Budget was about 2-3k USD and want a substantial upgrade over even the Logic7/HK system. I am looking for a clean sounding system without overloaded bass. Listen to all types of music. Don't want a big sub in the trunk or any custom enclosure of any kind. Here it is: 1. Speaker--Morel or Focal. Dealer is leaning towards K2 100KRS (2 pairs). According to dealer, these are the only 2 factory fit speakers that he has. 2. Amp--He said I have many choices, but he recommends JL Audio JL 300/4 3. DSP--He recommended one of the below: - Audio Control LC7 (low end) - Helix AFC-2000 (mid level) - JL Clean Sweep CL441DSP (ideal) 4. He wants to keep the underseat woofers stock and let the factory amp drive them for now. If I want he can upgrade them later. This sounds fine to me, because the mids and highs are now what is really lacking, however, if the bass is too muddy that may ruin everything. 5. Do I need to have #3 (DSP)? Is it required for successful installation or is it for equalization? Is it a nobrainer to get the best DSP or can I skimp here? I do understand the need for good amp/speakers, but my knowledge in DSP is very limited as is my experience with the requirement for eq/correction inside an E90. 6. The guys is open to installing the amp/dsp in the rear as I want it. Do you guys have any recommended layout like rear of the backseat or under rear shelf (upside down). don't want to install on trunk floor because I need to use the trunk. Any pics or link to images would be very helpful Total cost is almost 3k including installation. This is a bit more than I wanted to spend, but if it will come out to better than Logic 7/HK Surrounds than I'll go for it. He seems to have access to many manufacter's stuff, so in the same price range, if you think I should go with a different brand/model, please let me know. My car arrives in 2 weeks so I have time to get him to order different stuff or ask around other places. For reference, my home stereo is based on B&W 800 series/Arcam receiver/Velo DD subwoofer and I consider that a good system.
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08-28-2010, 07:29 AM | #2 |
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My advice:
2 x Rainbow Sound Line in the front or OEM L7 drivers 1 x Center channel coax from Individual Audio System (need center channel trim from dealer) 1 x JBL MS-8 Processor 1 x 2-Channel digital amp (JL or Alpine) Leave the OEM speakers in the back alone as they do not contribute to the front sound stage, just the ambient sound level. Let the MS-8 power all speakers, except the underseat woofers. Total cost for the equipment should be less than $2000 and it will absolutely blow away the system your shop quoted you. |
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08-28-2010, 08:52 AM | #3 | |
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08-28-2010, 09:04 AM | #4 | |
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good luck trying to find one brand who makes mids, tweeters, and the underseat subs. |
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08-28-2010, 09:48 AM | #5 | |
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1) It wasn't my suggestion, but the shops. 2) In the original post, the tweeters and the mids are all of the same brand. My knowledge of home theater tells me that all tweeters are the most difficult to match across manufacturers. Mids are easer and for woofers, it doesn't even matter. However, for the same type of drivers (tweeter/mid/woofer) its never a good idea to mix. I would think the same applies to car audio, but I may be mistaken. I have yet to hear any good setup (factory or custom) that mixes tweeters from different brands because every manufacturer has a 'house sound'. 3) In any case, I don't have access to individual coax center speaker in hong kong so I cannot go for such a system.
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08-28-2010, 10:52 AM | #6 | |||||
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A) The Clean Sweep is NOT ideal for a HiFi car. Literally, if you use a 300/4 in a HiFi car, which has flat outputs from the HU, and you can run those straight into a 300/4, the CS does you no good AT ALL. It has no user controls. Make sure this guy isn't using the outputs of the HiFi amp. If he isn't, if he's using the HU outputs, there's no reason to use an LC7 at all. Quote:
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My recommendation is (using what he seems to be able to get), the Morel Hybrid Ovation, ADMW9, HD900/5, and something to bandpass the underseat midbasses (which is another benefit of a good processor with flexible controls and features, which leaves out the CleanSweep). If you can't get underseats that fit, you can power the underseats with aftermarket power as long as you bandpass them at 50 Hz or so (and most amps don't have bandpass crossovers built in). Most "brands" don't make their own tweeters anyway, guys. @ OP - He made a good suggestion, and it was far less haphazard that that mongrel system you posted up here - it would have kicked that system's butt. Take your free advice and smile, buddy |
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08-28-2010, 11:16 AM | #7 |
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Thanks for that. So I understand :
1) do you mean 2 pairs of morel ovation and a single admw9 since you mention a 4+1 ch amp? 2) He said he can get something for underseat from focal but I don't remember which model 3) what is bandpass? Do you mean the stock under seats can't go below 50 without rattling so need to block those freqs? 4) what are some other good vale amps I should look at?
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08-28-2010, 11:41 AM | #8 |
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Do what you want, but with a processor like the MS-8, mixing drivers is not an issue. If you don't want to take the free advice from people who know these cars much better than your shop ever will, then go ahead and spend your $3k but don't come running back here afterwards asking us how to fix it...
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08-28-2010, 12:12 PM | #9 | |||
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If you are using the stock woofers on an aftermarket amp, they don't do as well below 50 and can fail. I don't recommend using the stock woofers with an aftermarket amp UNLESS you are using them as midbass with a trunk sub. The JL XD series should be considered. An XD 600/6 will fit in place of your HiFi amp and accept the balanced HU output signals, and run cooler than a 300/4. You could use one of those to power fronts, rears, and underseats in a basic system, which would far outperform the HiFi stock system. The Arc Mini 125.4 is also good. See if you can get: - JL XD600/6 - Morel Dotech or Hybrid Ovation 4" components in the front - Morel Integra Ovation 4" point source in the rear - Earthquake SWS8 or Morel ADMW9 underseat Or - JL 600/6 - Rainbow Sound Line 210.25 4 in front - Rainbow Sound Line 100KX 4" coax in rear - Same woofers as above If you are on a budget, leave the rears alone, get the best fronts you can, and new underseat woofers, and a 4-channel (JL XD 4-channel or Arc 125.4 are small options). |
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08-28-2010, 08:24 PM | #10 |
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Thanks, VPE, this has been extremely helpful. Based on your suggestion and a little bit of research, I will attempt to price the below:
Option 1 (original for reference) Focal 100KRS JL 300/2 JL Cleen Sweep CL441dsp Option 2 Arc KD 900.6 Morel Hybrid Ovation 4 Morel Integra Ovation 4 Morel ADMW SW 9 Option 3 JL XD 600/6 Morel Dotech Ovation 4 Morel Temp 4C Morel Elate SW 9 Option 4 JL XD 600/6 Focal 100KRS Focal 100CVX Morel ADMW SW 9 Option 5 Soundstream STL6.620 Amp Rainbow Sound Line 210.25 4 Comp Rainbow Sound Line 100KX 4" Coax Earthquake SWS8 a) For the underseats, I am open to anything they have that will fit. b) Let me know if anything is glaringly wrong. c) Will go for a 6ch amp. any others I should look into? d) 2 way front and coax rear from same manufacturer d) no DSP e) anywhere I can get a harness that plugs into factory amp socket so I don't have to cut wires? f) what is the ideal location to mount the amp and front crossovers? upside down under rear shelf?
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08-28-2010, 09:17 PM | #11 |
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I would lose the Soundstream. Have no data indicating it can accept balanced signals.
You seem to be making up your own systems. As has been said before, do what you want. You ask for advice and then change things around, so good luck to you. I recommended things that I know work. I'm not going to chase every idea you have, though. I mentioned where the amp goes. The crossovers often go under the trunk floor in the tray. If your installer know your cars you'd be farther along. |
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08-28-2010, 10:16 PM | #12 | |
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Please bear with me--I may be expert in home theater but my knowledge is car audio is obviously lacking which is why I am asking for advice. I just want to go to the AV guy with some options because he may not have all the above.
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08-29-2010, 04:48 AM | #13 |
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One noob question for my own curiosity--if the front door speakers are wired in parallel from factory, and I get components with a crossover box (like the morels), in order to use the factory wiring will I need to place the crossovers inside the front door? If I place them in the trunk floor, I'll have to run a set of wires to the front door speakers right?
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09-01-2010, 02:05 AM | #14 |
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Update from the installer:
1. Speaker options: Option 1 Focal 100KRS fronts Focal 100CVX rears Option 2+100 USD from option 1 Morel Dotech Ovation 4 fronts Morel Temp 4C rears Option 3+400 USD from option 2 Morel Hybrid Ovation 4 fronts Morel Integra Ovation 4 rears 2. Underseats Moreal ADMW SW6. He is saying SW9 will not fit. I can get him to order SW9, but question is it an easy fit or is there anything special? Any pics? Do they fit in the box where the factory woofers go? EDIT:Got my answer here. 3. Amp JL 500/5 or 300/4+250/1 (+ 50 USD for 500/5). He wants to run both underseats with a single mono amp. About XD 600/6 it is not yet in HK (will come in October), but saying since its class D, the SQ will not be good as the A/B ones. 4. DSP According to him, with out cleansweep, he cannot guarrantee good sound. He can install but won't vouch for quality. I can suggest to him that we try without it first, and only add if SQ is not there. Thoughts?
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Sold 2021 X7/2018 X5/2014 X5 Sold 2013 520i/2010 325i Sold E90 335i M Sport Alpine White|Tokyo Sold E36 328i Jet Black|NYC Last edited by akhter; 09-01-2010 at 10:22 AM.. |
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09-01-2010, 04:56 AM | #15 | |
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09-01-2010, 07:02 AM | #16 |
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Crap that is what I was starting to think as well. He was recommended by the JL Audio distributer in HK.
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09-01-2010, 07:16 AM | #17 |
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I think it is obvious that the real experts are here on this board and have already shown you the path forward. Now you just need to buy the equipment and pay someone to install it.
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09-01-2010, 11:11 AM | #18 |
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09-01-2010, 11:15 AM | #19 | |
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09-01-2010, 11:27 AM | #20 | |
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The resistance of speaker wire - and yes, you do have to run new wire - is very low and will not change things enough to be a problem. If you put the passive crossovers too close to the grounding bracket in the trunk, or some other sources of EMI, you can have RPM noise over the tweeters. Still not a reason to go into the doors. |
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09-01-2010, 12:06 PM | #21 | |
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09-01-2010, 06:50 PM | #22 |
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Where is the grounding bracket in the trunk?
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