[CaptainInsano]

Originally Posted by turb0mike

I don't know if I am allowed to put up a quote I got from FFTEC w/o shiv's tuning. It is slightly above 11k for people keeping track. Just to keep everyone honest.

Including installation and what not and NOT E85 'compatable'

That's for the whole shebang though right? Meth, installation, bribes, exhaust, and all?

[nafoo]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

"At least $13k"?
Not sure where you got your numbers from or why you are comparing a flexfuel fuel system to one that is not. If you compare apples to apples:

600whp single turbo:
VFF 62mm 6,750.00
PROcede Professional N54 745.00
3_5MAP Sensor_Kit 150.00
Cheap FMIC 400.00
Ceramic BB_Upgrade 595.00
YStyle Downipe 250.00


TOTAL 8900.00+install

You don't need the pwm meth kit, intakes or downpipes. And at this relatively low boost (16-21psi), you shouldn't need axles, a clutch or other drivetrain upgrades any more urgently than with a 500whp RB car. And it will still give you another ~100whp to grow with additional supporting mods. The RB car, in comparison, will already maxed out, running at higher backpressure levels, at higher cylinder temps and with a generally less enticing exhaust note

I suggest being more careful when trying to make a point about comparative pricing.




*

Originally Posted by turb0mike

I don't know if I am allowed to put up a quote I got from FFTEC w/o shiv's tuning. It is slightly above 11k for people keeping track. Just to keep everyone honest.

Including installation and what not and NOT E85 'compatable'

That's about $3,045 in installation according to Shiv's statements, correct? (EDITED PRICE OF INSTALLATION BECAUSE TURBOMIKE ALREADY HAS FMIC)

[nafoo]

Originally Posted by CaptainInsano

That's for the whole shebang though right? Meth, installation, bribes, exhaust, and all?

Maybe that includes the DSS axles and all the other goodies?

[onesuperboi]

Wow. A single and e85 looks fantastic!

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by nafoo

That's about $3,045 in installation according to Shiv's statements, correct? (EDITED PRICE OF INSTALLATION BECAUSE TURBOMIKE ALREADY HAS FMIC)

You are now being a troll. The difference includes the pwm meth kit, charge pipe, extra nozzles, drilling of the fmic, plugs, fluid disposal and entire installation. Also, I believe turbomikes quite was from back in June before we finalized and announced pricing.

[nafoo]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

You are now being a troll. The difference includes the pwm meth kit, charge pipe, extra nozzles, drilling of the fmic, plugs, fluid disposal and entire installation. Also, I believe turbomikes quite was from back in June before we finalized and announced pricing.

This is how much my build would cost without labor:

VFF 62mm 6,750.00
PWM Methanol Kit_N54_4nozzle 795.00
3_5MAP Sensor_Kit 150.00
YStyle Downipe 250.00
Recirculated Wastegate 250.00
Quad Nozzle Upgrade_kit 100.00
DSS Driveshafts 995.00
Ceramic BB_Upgrade 595.00
PROcede Professional N54 745.00
All prices are in US Dollars Subtotal 10,630.00
Shipping 141.00
Tax 0.00
TOTAL 10,771.00

[CaptainInsano]

Originally Posted by nafoo

This is how much my build would cost without labor:

VFF 62mm 6,750.00
PWM Methanol Kit_N54_4nozzle 795.00
3_5MAP Sensor_Kit 150.00
YStyle Downipe 250.00
Recirculated Wastegate 250.00
Quad Nozzle Upgrade_kit 100.00
DSS Driveshafts 995.00
Ceramic BB_Upgrade 595.00
PROcede Professional N54 745.00
All prices are in US Dollars Subtotal 10,630.00
Shipping 141.00
Tax 0.00
TOTAL 10,771.00

That's if you wanted to be cool like me and use meth.

[nafoo]

Originally Posted by CaptainInsano

That's if you wanted to be cool like me and use meth.

I want to be cool like you and use Meth & E85.

[JamesM3M5]

Originally Posted by nafoo

I want to be cool like you and use Meth & E85.

From what I've seen, the benefits of methanol are largely negated by E85 shooting directly into the combustion chamber. Methanol doesn't net nearly the same gains on an E85 tune compared to a regular gasoline tune. The IATs are higher, but the flash update will account for that. The actual combustion chamber temp once ethanol evaporates inside means reducing IATs with methanol/water isn't as necessary for safety or power. It helps, but not nearly as much since E85 development has exploded in the last 6 months for our engines.

[nafoo]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

From what I've seen, the benefits of methanol are largely negated by E85 shooting directly into the combustion chamber. Methanol doesn't net nearly the same gains on an E85 tune compared to a regular gasoline tune. The IATs are higher, but the flash update will account for that. The actual combustion chamber temp once ethanol evaporates inside means reducing IATs with methanol/water isn't as necessary for safety or power. It helps, but not nearly as much since E85 development has exploded in the last 6 months for our engines.

I see. I thought I read somewhere in one of Shiv's posts that E85 + Meth = sex. Or something along those lines.

[JamesM3M5]

Looking at BrianMN's FBO+E85 versus +meth doesn't look like nearly the same huge increases in HP or torque. There's some gain in there, don't get me wrong. Also the power and torque curves from Shiv's initial E85 FlexFuel thread with just DCI or DCI+FMIC trump gasoline+meth by leaps and bounds.

But if I were to run the single turbo for drag racing, I'd choose the meth option, definitely. For road course use (future plans, the N54 is going to kill on track in the coming years for us track junkies) methanol can be a liability. Even under 50/50, it will still burn if you leak onto the exhaust, for instance. NASA club racing allows methanol but requires a cell for concentrations 50%+.

[turb0mik3]

Originally Posted by CaptainInsano

That's for the whole shebang though right? Meth, installation, bribes, exhaust, and all?

turbo, installation, spark plugs, drill meth lines into front mount, maph sensor, new oils, 2.5 gallon meth tank.

That was just over 11k. So people can stop speculating about numbers and stuff. Just ask them for a quote.

[bootay]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

At 450whp, there is no room to grow with the stock turbos. So I'm not sure what you arguing.

Likewise, I encourage you to stop making up numbers when trying to make a point. Your claim of "At least 13K" versus an actual $8900 is indicative of someone who isn't putting time into doing the actual research when it comes to supporting their argument.

Shiv

Making up numbers? I'm quoting numbers from you and your website vs. specific line-item'd out items from others. There's no FUD, no trolling, just stating the facts. 450rwhp costs $2100 in mods for FBO+E85, 500rwhp or 600rwhp is an upgrade from that with RBs or swapping to your single setup (which re-uses several parts and the others are easily sold). Yes, if you go RB you're limited substantially in upgrading without tossing the RBs. But a full Vishnu single-turbo setup (raw power parts only, not supporting parts like suspension, tires, shafts, clutch, etc.) costs $13k or so installed vs. the $6-7k for the RB car (installed).

The issue being discussed was when someone else said others are WAY behind Vishnu and said lets compare costs, it's not apples to apples and the config being mentioned was MASSIVELY more expensive (and more powerful) than the other vendors options.

The apples to apples is stock turbos, your E85 setup and nothing more vs. other tunes with E85 maps and nothing more, but that's not what was being discussed.

No need to go picking fights.

[CaptainInsano]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

From what I've seen, the benefits of methanol are largely negated by E85 shooting directly into the combustion chamber. Methanol doesn't net nearly the same gains on an E85 tune compared to a regular gasoline tune. The IATs are higher, but the flash update will account for that. The actual combustion chamber temp once ethanol evaporates inside means reducing IATs with methanol/water isn't as necessary for safety or power. It helps, but not nearly as much since E85 development has exploded in the last 6 months for our engines.

Look at the dynos earlier in this thread. Looks like it's helping a lot atm with the single. We'll see when running more E85.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by CaptainInsano

Look at the dynos earlier in this thread. Looks like it's helping a lot atm with the single. We'll see when running more E85.

E85 raises the effective octane a ton, so it is a game changer if you can supply enough fuel. Clearly Shiv has the fueling under control and those power numbers of 50/50 are crazy!

[Dmacc]

Originally Posted by bootay

Making up numbers? I'm quoting numbers from you and your website vs. specific line-item'd out items from others. There's no FUD, no trolling, just stating the facts. 450rwhp costs $2100 in mods for FBO+E85, 500rwhp or 600rwhp is an upgrade from that with RBs or swapping to your single setup (which re-uses several parts and the others are easily sold). Yes, if you go RB you're limited substantially in upgrading without tossing the RBs. But a full Vishnu single-turbo setup (raw power parts only, not supporting parts like suspension, tires, shafts, clutch, etc.) costs $13k or so installed vs. the $6-7k for the RB car (installed).

The issue being discussed was when someone else said others are WAY behind Vishnu and said lets compare costs, it's not apples to apples and the config being mentioned was MASSIVELY more expensive (and more powerful) than the other vendors options.

The apples to apples is stock turbos, your E85 setup and nothing more vs. other tunes with E85 maps and nothing more, but that's not what was being discussed.

No need to go picking fights.

He replied to nafoo, not you, why so hostile

[bootay]

Originally Posted by Dmacc

He replied to nafoo, not you, why so hostile

he quoted me...

[cstmx_ryder]

So is the Flexfuel kit available yet?

[CaptainInsano]

Originally Posted by cstmx_ryder

So is the Flexfuel kit available yet?

For the single turbos or stock guys? It think they are still in "call them and get in line" mode.

[cstmx_ryder]

Originally Posted by CaptainInsano

For the single turbos or stock guys? It think they are still in "call them and get in line" mode.

I have stock turbos....So I guess I need to 'take a number'?

[CaptainInsano]

Originally Posted by cstmx_ryder

I have stock turbos....So I guess I need to 'take a number'?

I would guess so, but I have no idea. Just send mike/shiv an e-mail and ask. That's how I got on the single turbo list so early.

[Dmacc]

Give them a call, I was just over there today and I think they are just about ready to start taking orders and appointments if you're local, but you should definitely give them a call instead of taking my word for it haha