[riso1988]

Hi everyone. I’m looking for some input on a transmission fault that triggered failsafe (limp) mode. A little history – ‘06 330xi with 100500 miles with the ZF 6HP19 auto transmission. I bought it last year with 92,000 miles. Assumed transmission fluid/filter had never been changed so I had it done at my indy at about 95,000. Within 100 miles, I got the transmission error/failsafe mode. Shut car off, restarted, drove fine for another 50 miles until light came back on, same. I scanned with inpa and read diagnostics code 4F83 – Ratio Monitoring, clutch C. I brought back to indy who reset the adaptations and said it was due to the new fluid. Things have been fine for about 5000 miles until again, transmission fault and failsafe mode – twice. I scanned again and it’s the 4F83 code again. I have attached my screenshot from inpa.

It seems like this only happened when cruising at highway speed (maybe only in normal D mode not DS), possibly on a downshift? Other than this code the car shifts great, no issues, no ATF leaks.

I’ve been doing a ton of research and scoured just about every post on the subject. I’m trying to determine if this could actually be an internal (mechanical) issue with one of the clutch packs OR just the Mechatronics adapter seal behind the valve body. Everything I read regarding this seems to point to an issue (crack) in the Mechatronics adapter seal or a solenoid in the valve body. It seems a mechanical failure on these ZF transmissions is rare (can anyone confirm?). It also seems like the cracked adapter seal commonly throws a (similar) 4F81 code – Ratio Monitoring, clutch A. I'll attach link below to video. There’s even a TSB – SI B24 01 08 - for this, attached. I’m not sure if this cracked adapter could also cause a 4F83 though – they seem pretty similar, just different clutches.

I feel confident that I could change the adapter seal by myself but I’d hate to tear it open and find out the seal is in good condition. I’m assuming I could reuse the existing fluid since it’s still pretty fresh – maybe just new pan gasket, and fill/drain plug. If so should I replace the mechatronics seal too? This is also new (was done with fluid change). I could always just bring it back to the indy but I’d rather not pay $$$ for something I’ve troubleshot and could potentially fix on my own.

If anyone has any thoughts or experience with this code I’d really appreciate it. If anyone knows if this adapter seal could trigger a 4F83 in lieu of a 4F81 please let me know. Thanks everyone!

http://www.revolutionautomotiveservi...ring-clutch-a/

[mlifxs]

subscribed

[328XIdiot]

Do you know what fluids they used? What sort of Indy are they? Euro specialists? BOSCH authorized service center?

[bimmerquick43321]

not encouraging after my water pump, transmission fluid and pan was next on my 330i and came to the conclusion it would be safe to do it at those miles. ....

sorry though through out my research on the zf oil change didn't remember reading about anything like this happening.

[riso1988]

The shop is a euro specialist. They supposedly used the ZF lifeguard fluid.

[rjahl]

Have you talked to the Indy shop about your problem? One of the possible causes listed is low fliud level and these hare not the easiest transmissions to fill correctly. I did mine and it's a PITA. Look up the procedure and you get an idea.

[riso1988]

I have not contacted the Indy shop yet but I did get under the car today. After removing the plastic cover and looking around, everything looks dry so I don't think I lost any fluid.

According to ZF, it is very possible that it is an internal mechanical failure though it could also just be the valve body or a solenoid. He seemed to think the adapter seal was unlikely to be the culprit but it's also a possibility. He suggested dropping the pan, checking the fluid to see if it's burnt or if there are metal shavings. If so its probably a mechanical failure. While I have the pan down, I will replace the adapter seal and the four seal sleeves as they tend to fail.

Another interesting suggestion ZF had was to swap around the solenoids in the valve body, maintaining the color orientation. This way if I still get the clutch C error code, I know it wasn't the solenoid and it's a mechanical fault. If I get an error for a different clutch pack, I know the solenoid is bad. I'll clean the screens of the solenoids while I'm in there.

I'm thinking of tackling this on Monday. I'll be sure to provide any details or updates. Feel free to let me know if you think I'm crazy.

[riso1988]

Hey everyone - sorry for the delay, I got caught up in a bunch of stuff. Heres an update:

Well I was able to complete what I set out to - it wasn't terribly difficult as I had kyleb's guide located here - http://5series.net/forums/diy-do-you...thread-137584/

I was able to safely accomplish this using rhino ramps in the front and two rear jackstands (not responsible if anyone tackles this and injures themselves or vehicle). It was a fine amount of clearance and would have been too messy if i didn't run into my issue filling the fluid back up (explained below). I re-used the old fluid as it wasn't too old and had an luckily had an extra quart on hand to make up for the fluid I lost.

One thing to note is kyleb's guide is for RWD not AWD. One huge issue i ran into was the driveshaft was in the way of the transmission fill port. I needed to remove the four bolts securing the driveshaft to the transfer case and move the drive shaft hanging / out of the way. This wasn't such an issue once I figured this out but in filling the fluid once complete, I couldn't follow kyleb's as I didnt want to shift any gears with the driveshaft disconnected (not sure if that would be a problem but didn't want to risk) and getting the fill port plug screwed in with the driveshaft in place was an epic fail - no room to line up and turn once fluid starts pouring out i.e. mess.

My fluid (with almost 10k) looked dark though I'm not sure if it was burnt or this is how its was supposed to look, it was definitely much darker than the one quart of new fluid I had on hand. I have attached a picture (feel free to comment) though it looks a little darker than it did in person. Everying inside looked clean, no metal shavings or particles.

Unfortunately, the mechatronics bridge adapater and the four sealing sleeves seemed to be in pretty decent shape. Although, the sealing lip on the bridge adapter was a bit misshapen (not sure if normal or not) and the sealing sleeves were shrunken a bit - see pics. I replaced them all.

I took apart the mechatronics which was fine but a bit time consuming. I didn't realize that I'd have to note the positioning of the shift plunger and how it lined up with the lever. Luckily I had taken a few 'before' pictures and was able to figure it out.

Lastly, I swapped the position of the solenoids (maintaining the color orientation) per ZF's direction. The solenoid screens looked clean but i blew into them and cleaned the contacts with a Q-tip.

After I re-assembled everything, I reset adaptions using inpa. I don't want to jinx it but it's been able 200 miles since I completed this and I haven't seen an error since and the transmission still seems to be shifting fine (as before).

I'm not sure if this fixed anything as of yet but I'll be sure to update if I get the error back or if anything changes.

If anyone has any input on the color of the fluid please let me know. thanks

[bmwhitman]

Originally Posted by riso1988

Hey everyone - sorry for the delay, I got caught up in a bunch of stuff. Heres an update:

Well I was able to complete what I set out to - it wasn't terribly difficult as I had kyleb's guide located here - http://5series.net/forums/diy-do-you...thread-137584/

I was able to safely accomplish this using rhino ramps in the front and two rear jackstands (not responsible if anyone tackles this and injures themselves or vehicle). It was a fine amount of clearance and would have been too messy if i didn't run into my issue filling the fluid back up (explained below). I re-used the old fluid as it wasn't too old and had an luckily had an extra quart on hand to make up for the fluid I lost.

One thing to note is kyleb's guide is for RWD not AWD. One huge issue i ran into was the driveshaft was in the way of the transmission fill port. I needed to remove the four bolts securing the driveshaft to the transfer case and move the drive shaft hanging / out of the way. This wasn't such an issue once I figured this out but in filling the fluid once complete, I couldn't follow kyleb's as I didnt want to shift any gears with the driveshaft disconnected (not sure if that would be a problem but didn't want to risk) and getting the fill port plug screwed in with the driveshaft in place was an epic fail - no room to line up and turn once fluid starts pouring out i.e. mess.

My fluid (with almost 10k) looked dark though I'm not sure if it was burnt or this is how its was supposed to look, it was definitely much darker than the one quart of new fluid I had on hand. I have attached a picture (feel free to comment) though it looks a little darker than it did in person. Everying inside looked clean, no metal shavings or particles.

Unfortunately, the mechatronics bridge adapater and the four sealing sleeves seemed to be in pretty decent shape. Although, the sealing lip on the bridge adapter was a bit misshapen (not sure if normal or not) and the sealing sleeves were shrunken a bit - see pics. I replaced them all.

I took apart the mechatronics which was fine but a bit time consuming. I didn't realize that I'd have to note the positioning of the shift plunger and how it lined up with the lever. Luckily I had taken a few 'before' pictures and was able to figure it out.

Lastly, I swapped the position of the solenoids (maintaining the color orientation) per ZF's direction. The solenoid screens looked clean but i blew into them and cleaned the contacts with a Q-tip.

After I re-assembled everything, I reset adaptions using inpa. I don't want to jinx it but it's been able 200 miles since I completed this and I haven't seen an error since and the transmission still seems to be shifting fine (as before).

I'm not sure if this fixed anything as of yet but I'll be sure to update if I get the error back or if anything changes.

If anyone has any input on the color of the fluid please let me know. thanks

I have the same issue with Code 4F83 Gear Transmission Ratio C. I had 2 failsafe modes and the car went limp. How did you eventually fixed this problem? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[riso1988]

Originally Posted by bmwhitman

I have the same issue with Code 4F83 Gear Transmission Ratio C. I had 2 failsafe modes and the car went limp. How did you eventually fixed this problem? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Hey sorry for the delay on this - I believe it was the mechatronics bridge adapter or the four sealing sleeves that was causing the issue. Since I did the work mentioned above I've had no codes or limp mode. good luck!

[riso1988]

Bad news, it looks like my streak of luck has ended. the 4F83 code is back after approximately 14,000 miles.

I'm not exactly sure where I should go with this. Brought it to an indie who (after just reading the 4F83 code) quoted me $3500 for a rebuild. Not sure if I should just drop the pan again myself and this time change the solenoids - inspecting for metal shavings, OR just shop around for a rebuild. Another option is a new valve body but I'm not sure it's worth the investment as there's no guarantee that will fix my issue.

Any thoughts? Suggestions? If it comes to it, am I better off rebuilding or getting a used Grade A tranny?

[hassmaschine]

MT swap.

[Ruddigger]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

MT swap.

My thoughts exactly.

[riso1988]

it is a (slight) consideration...although I don't know if I could stomach NYC traffic with a manual

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by riso1988

it is a (slight) consideration...although I don't know if I could stomach NYC traffic with a manual

I used to drive NYC traffic every day w/ a manual. IMO it's not that bad, unless you get stuck in traffic uphill (and the E90 has hill hold anyway)

[riso1988]

I hear ya...I'll save that discussion for my last resort hah would rather concentrate on fixing this issue if possible rather than replacing the tranny one way or the other

[dstrickland]

Originally Posted by riso1988

I hear ya...I'll save that discussion for my last resort hah would rather concentrate on fixing this issue if possible rather than replacing the tranny one way or the other

It seems whatever you did last time did something considering you held strong for 14K miles.

I'd swap the solenoids & grab a sonnax zip kit. I wasnt throwing errors, but it made my 200K+ mile tranny feel like it was brand new.

[riso1988]

thanks for the input. definitely want to do the solenoids, the zip kit looks complicated. I don't want to screw it up worse than it (potentially) already is.

Ideally, I think the best shot would be going for the rebuild valve body. I just cant find a service that doesn't require me to remove, send it out and wait for it to return. This isn't really practical for me.

[riso1988]

solenoids on the way, found a new set of ZF for cheap. Going to swap the fluid, solenoids and pan/filter out and cross my fingers. While I'm in there I'll be able to see if the fluid is low/burnt worse and if there are any metal shavings on the magnet which may indicate internal damage.

I also wanted to check the old solenoid for brake C (cause of 4F83) to see if it is faulty. I believe this is EDS3 in the 6HP19 (1st gen valve body). Can I just check the resistance (I think I read it should be 5 Ohms) or is there a better way of testing it>

Will keep you posted with my findings!

[riso1988]

Ok so I installed the solenoids, fresh fluid, and a new pan on Saturday. I then reset adaptions. Everything went smooth, fluid looked okay and no shavings (at all) on magnets in old pan.

I got the code again twice within the first 20 miles (4F83 gear ratio monitoring clutch C). Drove about 150 miles since then and nothing (so far). Wondering if that was due to the adaption reset? Any thoughts if that's possible? I think I read that the first 100 miles would be weird. Car shifted a little hard in all gears initially. Now it's smoothed out.

Will put some more miles today and then take for a small road trip on sat, hoping code stays gone

[hassmaschine]

yeah sometimes an adaptations reset can cause a code. For example on the N52, it can cause a limp mode/throttle code, that simply resetting the codes will go away on it's own.

[riso1988]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

yeah sometimes an adaptations reset can cause a code. For example on the N52, it can cause a limp mode/throttle code, that simply resetting the codes will go away on it's own.

Thanks - hope that's the case here!