Wastegate actuator rod adjustment 335i

phil200tdi · 08-20-2012, 02:21 PM

Anyone in the UK done this:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176269

Kerr · 08-20-2012, 03:39 PM

Make sure if you do that to get a boost gauge connected.

That is how to increase boost pressure too.

The wastegate is just forced to stay closed longer.

phil200tdi · 08-21-2012, 01:48 AM

My wastegate has too much slop in the arm and I'm getting limp modes!!

Hopefully this will take up some of the play. May shove a washer in there too and grease it all up.

I really don't fancy replacing the turbos!

335i E92 · 08-22-2012, 06:43 AM

Having trouble with my wastegateS too... Had the rear wastegate tightened recently which got rid of the rattle but now the wastegates aren't closing properly under load.

Car is laggy, exhaust is boomy and generally feels like a dog. Going back in to Woods next week to take the dp's off and try to properly adjust the front & rear turbo and check vacuum pressures are as they should be.

Either looking at a lazy actuator that isn't closing properly, an ill adjustment of the actuator rod or possible faulty vacuum pump not providing enough vacuum to close wastegates.

I suspect its a mechanical fault with the actuator rod (too much play causing the wastegates not to seat properly) in which case if the adjustment doesn't work its new turbos.

Well out of warranty = Not appy!!

phil200tdi · 08-22-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335i E92

Having trouble with my wastegateS too... Had the rear wastegate tightened recently which got rid of the rattle but now the wastegates aren't closing properly under load.

Car is laggy, exhaust is boomy and generally feels like a dog. Going back in to Woods next week to take the dp's off and try to properly adjust the front & rear turbo and check vacuum pressures are as they should be.

Either looking at a lazy actuator that isn't closing properly, an ill adjustment of the actuator rod or possible faulty vacuum pump not providing enough vacuum to close wastegates.

I suspect its a mechanical fault with the actuator rod (too much play causing the wastegates not to seat properly) in which case if the adjustment doesn't work its new turbos.

Well out of warranty = Not appy!!

I think we have exactly the same problem.

I'm about to do the brakes too and feel the clutch doesn't have long to live.. I'm pretty fed up and very close to just part exchanging the car tbh.

335i E92 · 08-22-2012, 08:47 AM

I've invested so much into getting this car right that I almost feel if I ditch it then I've lost a shit load of ££ that I won't get back.

Even if I have to put new turbo's on its £1500 and the car should hopefully then be strong for a good few years. If I px'd it I'd loose a shit load and in all stand to loose alot more than the £1500 turbo outlay.

At 80k miles (which I think yours has also done) having 1/2 of that tuned its kinda expected that the turbo's are on their way out.

Anyway hoping the manual adjustment does the trick next week as tbh I havnt got £1500 to throw at the car right now.

phil200tdi · 08-22-2012, 09:14 AM

Im at 88k and had been considering a change next year.

Threw £1k at valve cleaning and service recently.

Have brakes to fit, clutch slightly whirring. Rear tyres are getting low. Potential for new turbos means that I could get a crap trade in value and Be better off than fixing and selling privately later..

creepy coupe · 08-22-2012, 10:38 AM

The problem is the linkage wears where the rod locates. So you have a cock in a sock arragement. You can take up the slack so the linkage gets full travel, but you still have slack.

phil200tdi · 08-22-2012, 02:10 PM

^ Yep

Hence I mentionned putting a washer/clip in which will take up the slack. Like this:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAkkIEMm3UQ

335i E92 · 08-22-2012, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil200tdi

^ Yep

Hence I mentionned putting a washer/clip in which will take up the slack. Like this:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAkkIEMm3UQ

Any idea where to purchase anything like this that will work on our turbos?

creepy coupe · 08-23-2012, 02:13 AM

Wonder what that clip does to the action of the rod? Given it's only vacuum operated.

phil200tdi · 08-23-2012, 06:31 AM

Seems to just take up the slack of the rod moving on the pin. I wouldn't expect it to impede the rotation of the Wastegate arm.

These clips are an official Audi fix under TIS. Yet to find anything similar from BMW though...

B005T3D-G · 08-24-2012, 12:06 PM

I'm feeling your pain buddy. Just back from offshore and the car is telling me that a service is overdue so think my warranty could be buggered.

Have taken my missus and I up to Inverness for a weekend and on the way I threw a limp mode when pressing on through the twisties which I reset then when I arrived at the carpark there was a very pronounced rattle which I believe is the dreaded waste gate rattle. Gutted

.

Will be monitoring this thread to see how you get on with the adjustment fix as I can't be bothered replacing the turbos unless I upgrade to RB's.

phil200tdi · 08-25-2012, 04:38 AM

If either of you are jb4 users, try reducing the lag fix. Seems to have eased the over boost symptoms.

I dont get a rattle but can feel the slop in the arm which is concerning me!

doughboy · 08-25-2012, 08:39 AM

Phil,

Sorry to waffle, but i've spent time (and money) on this...

Mine has always suffered from a recurring ticking rattle on warm starts which goes in about a minute.

I've had it adjusted twice properly with a hand vaccum pump (2nd time just this week) with DPs off.

The Mr5 methods is flawed IMO in that he assumes the ECU can control each wastegate separately, this is not the case, there are 2 solenoids, but the output vaccum lines are paralleled up, so there is only 1 vaccuum for both turbos. It is thus very important that both wastegates close exactly the same amount for any given vacuum.

If you over-adjust one actuator only, then that turbo will produce more boost than the other for a given vacuum level. This extra boost will heat up that turbo more and will actually fight against the other turbo's output.

BUT - in practice it seems that the rear turbo linkage wears more (hotter maybe?), in both cases on my car an extra 1/2 turn on the shaft was required on the rear turbo only to get full closure at the specified 200mbar vacuum. The front one was fine. So as long as you are just winding out slack to get back to the correct operation you are ok.

This tightening also fixes the rattle for me, until it wears again. The wear on mine (and all probably) is the wastegate pivot in the turbine housing NOT the actuator arm end pivot. This is as confirmed by Turbo Dynamics who I had a chat with. So ultimately, the shaft will be so loose in the housing it will bind / jam causing under/over boost codes.

Also of concern is the method of adjustment in Mr5s post, the actuator rod is FIXED to the vaccum diaphragm, it does not rotate, so turning it will presumably break / loosen something? We tried to turn mine and they wouldn't budge easily.

The correct way to adjust it is to loosen the lock nut at the pivot end, take the shaft eye off the wastgate arm pin, turn the eye half a turn and put it back on the wastegate arm, then tighten it up.

BTW you can't put any grease anywhere as the temps are so high it will just burn off, the wastegates and linkages have to run completely dry. The turbine housing runs at about 1000degC, so watch anything else too. The suggested copper washers would melt at 905degC!

335i E92 · 08-25-2012, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doughboy

Phil,

Sorry to waffle, but i've spent time (and money) on this...

Mine has always suffered from a recurring ticking rattle on warm starts which goes in about a minute.

I've had it adjusted twice properly with a hand vaccum pump (2nd time just this week) with DPs off.

The Mr5 methods is flawed IMO in that he assumes the ECU can control each wastegate separately, this is not the case, there are 2 solenoids, but the output vaccum lines are paralleled up, so there is only 1 vaccuum for both turbos. It is thus very important that both wastegates close exactly the same amount for any given vacuum.

If you over-adjust one actuator only, then that turbo will produce more boost than the other for a given vacuum level. This extra boost will heat up that turbo more and will actually fight against the other turbo's output.

BUT - in practice it seems that the rear turbo linkage wears more (hotter maybe?), in both cases on my car an extra 1/2 turn on the shaft was required on the rear turbo only to get full closure at the specified 200mbar vacuum. The front one was fine. So as long as you are just winding out slack to get back to the correct operation you are ok.

This tightening also fixes the rattle for me, until it wears again. The wear on mine (and all probably) is the wastegate pivot in the turbine housing NOT the actuator arm end pivot. This is as confirmed by Turbo Dynamics who I had a chat with. So ultimately, the shaft will be so loose in the housing it will bind / jam causing under/over boost codes.

Also of concern is the method of adjustment in Mr5s post, the actuator rod is FIXED to the vaccum diaphragm, it does not rotate, so turning it will presumably break / loosen something? We tried to turn mine and they wouldn't budge easily.

The correct way to adjust it is to loosen the lock nut at the pivot end, take the shaft eye off the wastgate arm pin, turn the eye half a turn and put it back on the wastegate arm, then tighten it up.

BTW you can't put any grease anywhere as the temps are so high it will just burn off, the wastegates and linkages have to run completely dry. The turbine housing runs at about 1000degC, so watch anything else too. The suggested copper washers would melt at 905degC!

Mike, where did you get the wastegates adjusted?

335i E92 · 08-25-2012, 04:48 PM

Also, did you adjust both or just the rear?

doughboy · 08-26-2012, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335i E92

Mike, where did you get the wastegates adjusted?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335i E92

Also, did you adjust both or just the rear?

Mike at Darren wood did them, you need dps off to do it properly.

On both times, we checked both turbos, and on both occasions only the rear was wearing and needed adjusting.

Half a turn each time, which is the minimum adjustment.

335i E92 · 08-26-2012, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doughboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335i E92

Mike, where did you get the wastegates adjusted?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335i E92

Also, did you adjust both or just the rear?

Mike at Darren wood did them, you need dps off to do it properly.

On both times, we checked both turbos, and on both occasions only the rear was wearing and needed adjusting.

Half a turn each time, which is the minimum adjustment.

Mines booked in for the same with Mike on Thursday, although mine aren't noisy there just not closing properly so on boost!!

phil200tdi · 08-26-2012, 08:24 AM

I wish they weren't 3 hours drive away!!!!

335i E92 · 08-26-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil200tdi

I wish they weren't 3 hours drive away!!!!

Worth a drive Phil, I'll let you know the outcome on Thurs.

doughboy · 08-26-2012, 02:02 PM

Good luck on thursday H.

I think you phoned Woods on Tuesday when I was there?

Next time my rattle comes back, we'll just tighten the rear actuator 1/2 a turn without faffing around.

The rear actuator arm is easy to reach, a 10 minute job with some long nose pliers, but the front one is a whole different game....

08-20-2012, 02:21 PM	#1
phil200tdi Colonel 112 Rep 2,621 Posts Drives: 335i M Sport E90 LCI manual Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Aylesbury iTrader: (1)	Wastegate actuator rod adjustment 335i Anyone in the UK done this: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176269 __________________ Car: e91 330d with Viezu map Gone but not forgotten: 2010 Jaguar XFR (Cat-back exhaust, pulley, intake mods and map), Highly Modified E90 335i LCI M Sport Manual (circa 480BHP/500lb ft) Last edited by phil200tdi; 08-20-2012 at 03:20 PM..
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08-20-2012, 03:39 PM	#2
Kerr Brigadier General 112 Rep 4,021 Posts Drives: BMW M235I Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Aberdeen iTrader: (0)	Make sure if you do that to get a boost gauge connected. That is how to increase boost pressure too. The wastegate is just forced to stay closed longer. Last edited by Kerr; 08-20-2012 at 04:02 PM..
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08-21-2012, 01:48 AM	#3
phil200tdi Colonel 112 Rep 2,621 Posts Drives: 335i M Sport E90 LCI manual Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Aylesbury iTrader: (1)	My wastegate has too much slop in the arm and I'm getting limp modes!! Hopefully this will take up some of the play. May shove a washer in there too and grease it all up. I really don't fancy replacing the turbos! __________________ Car: e91 330d with Viezu map Gone but not forgotten: 2010 Jaguar XFR (Cat-back exhaust, pulley, intake mods and map), Highly Modified E90 335i LCI M Sport Manual (circa 480BHP/500lb ft)
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08-22-2012, 06:43 AM	#4
335i E92 Captain 177 Rep 751 Posts Drives: M22 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Manchester iTrader: (1)	Having trouble with my wastegateS too... Had the rear wastegate tightened recently which got rid of the rattle but now the wastegates aren't closing properly under load. Car is laggy, exhaust is boomy and generally feels like a dog. Going back in to Woods next week to take the dp's off and try to properly adjust the front & rear turbo and check vacuum pressures are as they should be. Either looking at a lazy actuator that isn't closing properly, an ill adjustment of the actuator rod or possible faulty vacuum pump not providing enough vacuum to close wastegates. I suspect its a mechanical fault with the actuator rod (too much play causing the wastegates not to seat properly) in which case if the adjustment doesn't work its new turbos. Well out of warranty = Not appy!!
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08-22-2012, 08:47 AM	#6
335i E92 Captain 177 Rep 751 Posts Drives: M22 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Manchester iTrader: (1)	I've invested so much into getting this car right that I almost feel if I ditch it then I've lost a shit load of ££ that I won't get back. Even if I have to put new turbo's on its £1500 and the car should hopefully then be strong for a good few years. If I px'd it I'd loose a shit load and in all stand to loose alot more than the £1500 turbo outlay. At 80k miles (which I think yours has also done) having 1/2 of that tuned its kinda expected that the turbo's are on their way out. Anyway hoping the manual adjustment does the trick next week as tbh I havnt got £1500 to throw at the car right now.
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08-22-2012, 09:14 AM	#7
phil200tdi Colonel 112 Rep 2,621 Posts Drives: 335i M Sport E90 LCI manual Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Aylesbury iTrader: (1)	Im at 88k and had been considering a change next year. Threw £1k at valve cleaning and service recently. Have brakes to fit, clutch slightly whirring. Rear tyres are getting low. Potential for new turbos means that I could get a crap trade in value and Be better off than fixing and selling privately later.. __________________ Car: e91 330d with Viezu map Gone but not forgotten: 2010 Jaguar XFR (Cat-back exhaust, pulley, intake mods and map), Highly Modified E90 335i LCI M Sport Manual (circa 480BHP/500lb ft)
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08-22-2012, 10:38 AM	#8
creepy coupe Lieutenant General 1867 Rep 13,043 Posts Drives: BMW M340I G20 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK iTrader: (2) Garage List 2015 BMW 435d [0.00] 2009 335i [0.00]	The problem is the linkage wears where the rod locates. So you have a cock in a sock arragement. You can take up the slack so the linkage gets full travel, but you still have slack. Last edited by creepy coupe; 08-22-2012 at 10:43 AM..
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08-22-2012, 02:10 PM	#9
phil200tdi Colonel 112 Rep 2,621 Posts Drives: 335i M Sport E90 LCI manual Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Aylesbury iTrader: (1)	^ Yep Hence I mentionned putting a washer/clip in which will take up the slack. Like this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAkkIEMm3UQ __________________ Car: e91 330d with Viezu map Gone but not forgotten: 2010 Jaguar XFR (Cat-back exhaust, pulley, intake mods and map), Highly Modified E90 335i LCI M Sport Manual (circa 480BHP/500lb ft)
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08-23-2012, 02:13 AM	#11
creepy coupe Lieutenant General 1867 Rep 13,043 Posts Drives: BMW M340I G20 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK iTrader: (2) Garage List 2015 BMW 435d [0.00] 2009 335i [0.00]	Wonder what that clip does to the action of the rod? Given it's only vacuum operated.
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08-23-2012, 06:31 AM	#12
phil200tdi Colonel 112 Rep 2,621 Posts Drives: 335i M Sport E90 LCI manual Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Aylesbury iTrader: (1)	Seems to just take up the slack of the rod moving on the pin. I wouldn't expect it to impede the rotation of the Wastegate arm. These clips are an official Audi fix under TIS. Yet to find anything similar from BMW though... __________________ Car: e91 330d with Viezu map Gone but not forgotten: 2010 Jaguar XFR (Cat-back exhaust, pulley, intake mods and map), Highly Modified E90 335i LCI M Sport Manual (circa 480BHP/500lb ft)
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08-24-2012, 12:06 PM	#13
B005T3D-G Class Leading Reprobate 15 Rep 407 Posts Drives: Impreza STi - E92 335i (56) Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mintlaw, Scotland iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 BMW 335i SE [0.00]	I'm feeling your pain buddy. Just back from offshore and the car is telling me that a service is overdue so think my warranty could be buggered. Have taken my missus and I up to Inverness for a weekend and on the way I threw a limp mode when pressing on through the twisties which I reset then when I arrived at the carpark there was a very pronounced rattle which I believe is the dreaded waste gate rattle. Gutted . Will be monitoring this thread to see how you get on with the adjustment fix as I can't be bothered replacing the turbos unless I upgrade to RB's. __________________ E92 335i \| 6 Speed manual \| BMS 4xLED Halo Bulbs \| JB4 (waiting to be installed) \| BMW Performance Gloss Black Grills \| BMW Performance Exhaust \| Smoked side Repeaters Aero Front Lip \| M3 Lip Spoiler \|19" Cades Tyrus 'Gunmetal' with polished lips \| Falken FK452 Rubber ........... More to come
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08-25-2012, 04:38 AM	#14
phil200tdi Colonel 112 Rep 2,621 Posts Drives: 335i M Sport E90 LCI manual Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Aylesbury iTrader: (1)	If either of you are jb4 users, try reducing the lag fix. Seems to have eased the over boost symptoms. I dont get a rattle but can feel the slop in the arm which is concerning me! __________________ Car: e91 330d with Viezu map Gone but not forgotten: 2010 Jaguar XFR (Cat-back exhaust, pulley, intake mods and map), Highly Modified E90 335i LCI M Sport Manual (circa 480BHP/500lb ft)
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08-25-2012, 08:39 AM	#15
doughboy Major General 1545 Rep 8,970 Posts Drives: 2018 M2 Comp 6MT Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	Phil, Sorry to waffle, but i've spent time (and money) on this... Mine has always suffered from a recurring ticking rattle on warm starts which goes in about a minute. I've had it adjusted twice properly with a hand vaccum pump (2nd time just this week) with DPs off. The Mr5 methods is flawed IMO in that he assumes the ECU can control each wastegate separately, this is not the case, there are 2 solenoids, but the output vaccum lines are paralleled up, so there is only 1 vaccuum for both turbos. It is thus very important that both wastegates close exactly the same amount for any given vacuum. If you over-adjust one actuator only, then that turbo will produce more boost than the other for a given vacuum level. This extra boost will heat up that turbo more and will actually fight against the other turbo's output. BUT - in practice it seems that the rear turbo linkage wears more (hotter maybe?), in both cases on my car an extra 1/2 turn on the shaft was required on the rear turbo only to get full closure at the specified 200mbar vacuum. The front one was fine. So as long as you are just winding out slack to get back to the correct operation you are ok. This tightening also fixes the rattle for me, until it wears again. The wear on mine (and all probably) is the wastegate pivot in the turbine housing NOT the actuator arm end pivot. This is as confirmed by Turbo Dynamics who I had a chat with. So ultimately, the shaft will be so loose in the housing it will bind / jam causing under/over boost codes. Also of concern is the method of adjustment in Mr5s post, the actuator rod is FIXED to the vaccum diaphragm, it does not rotate, so turning it will presumably break / loosen something? We tried to turn mine and they wouldn't budge easily. The correct way to adjust it is to loosen the lock nut at the pivot end, take the shaft eye off the wastgate arm pin, turn the eye half a turn and put it back on the wastegate arm, then tighten it up. BTW you can't put any grease anywhere as the temps are so high it will just burn off, the wastegates and linkages have to run completely dry. The turbine housing runs at about 1000degC, so watch anything else too. The suggested copper washers would melt at 905degC! Last edited by doughboy; 08-25-2012 at 09:01 AM..
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08-25-2012, 04:48 PM	#17
335i E92 Captain 177 Rep 751 Posts Drives: M22 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Manchester iTrader: (1)	Also, did you adjust both or just the rear?
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08-26-2012, 08:24 AM	#20
phil200tdi Colonel 112 Rep 2,621 Posts Drives: 335i M Sport E90 LCI manual Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Aylesbury iTrader: (1)	I wish they weren't 3 hours drive away!!!! __________________ Car: e91 330d with Viezu map Gone but not forgotten: 2010 Jaguar XFR (Cat-back exhaust, pulley, intake mods and map), Highly Modified E90 335i LCI M Sport Manual (circa 480BHP/500lb ft)
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08-26-2012, 02:02 PM	#22
doughboy Major General 1545 Rep 8,970 Posts Drives: 2018 M2 Comp 6MT Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	Good luck on thursday H. I think you phoned Woods on Tuesday when I was there? Next time my rattle comes back, we'll just tighten the rear actuator 1/2 a turn without faffing around. The rear actuator arm is easy to reach, a 10 minute job with some long nose pliers, but the front one is a whole different game....
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