[Dm]

Originally Posted by kfiend

This is going to be an interesting thread. As your reliability question goes with most aftermarket mods, specially ECU related.

Now, where is the pop-corn....

Here it is:



I am running an electronics circuits development firm, so I have a clue of how the safe electronics should be designed. Maybe this unit is designed safe - but let's listen to the vendor to get a confirmation.
I am considering buying the thing, and of course if I finally decide to do that, I will open it and make sure it is designed safely before installing.

[Belarus]

Or better yet, since you're in electronics design line of business.... duplicate it (if BMS didn't file a patent on it) and/or make it fail safe and then sell it for half price if there is still profit margin...

P.S. good questions & welcome to the forum

[Dm]

Originally Posted by Belarus

Or better yet, since you're in electronics design line of business.... duplicate it (if BMS didn't file a patent on it) and/or make it fail safe and then sell it for half price if there is still profit margin...

P.S. good questions & welcome to the forum

Thank you for your P.S. ! As for the rest Of your post - no, I have no intention to be in this market, I am just considering this product for my car but first I would like to make sure it is safe.

[pushkin]

Originally Posted by Dm

Here it is:

I am running an electronics circuits development firm, so I have a clue of how the safe electronics should be designed. Maybe this unit is designed safe - but let's listen to the vendor to get a confirmation.
I am considering buying the thing, and of course if I finally decide to do that, I will open it and make sure it is designed safely before installing.

Since you know a thing or 2 about electronics circuits just buy the PBX, crack it open and let us know what you think about how well it is designed

[philsteroni]

Originally Posted by Dm

Really? Why do people ever use redundant computers at fault critical applications, if "calculators" never fail ?

We are talking about cars, not Nasa space ships or Nuclear missile technology. If you start worrying about your PBX not working correctly, you might as well start worrying about your airbags not deploying and your active steering going nuts. Bmw's already rely on dozens of computer modules to make the car run properly and safely, the PBX is just one more.

[Gavin@MMW]

Originally Posted by ska325xi

And i think craven haD ran the pbx for many many miles

Over 30,000 in fact

never had an issue, always serviced it at the dealer and never took it out.

the PBX is a solid product and BMS knows what they are doing.

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by philsteroni

... If you start worrying about your PBX not working correctly, you might as well start worrying about your airbags not deploying and your active steering going nuts. Bmw's already rely on dozens of computer modules to make the car run properly and safely, the PBX is just one more.

And if he does, why do you care. Maybe he considers seat belts as redundancy to airbags... power steering to active steering...

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Dm

Mike,
What prevents the processor of the PBX to be locked up on failure while leaving the last valid output signals on the output digital to analog converters (DACs) forever ? In this case the 2 output signals will still be valid (one half of the other) and the ECU will not detect any error.
Thanks
Dmitry

I'm not really an EE but I believe that is why they went with a pwm/low pass filter design instead of a stand alone DAC. If the processor locks up the PWM will be stuck either high or low. There are provisions on the firmware to handle various shut down / lock up scenarios as well. It's a simple well proven system but I suppose there are always some risks you take on when modifying a car.

Mike

[philsteroni]

Originally Posted by Belarus

And if he does, why do you care. Maybe he considers seat belts as redundancy to airbags... power steering to active steering...

I felt like he misquoted me. I was merely trying to state that not all BMW features use redundancy as backup when something breaks or fails(ie first gen Mini electric power steering totally disables when battery is low).

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by philsteroni

I felt like he misquoted me. I was merely trying to state that not all BMW features use redundancy as backup when something breaks or fails(ie first gen Mini electric power steering totally disables when battery is low).

Now you're going to make him take apart every electrical devise in his BMW that can lead to losing control and inspect the redundancy level BMW built into it...

[philsteroni]

Originally Posted by Belarus

Now you're going to make him take apart every electrical devise in his BMW that can lead to losing control and inspect the redundancy level BMW built into it...

No, he was the one who mentioned redundancy. I am the one who stated we should trust electronics (as i stated with calculators). I don't think you're reading correctly.

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by philsteroni

No, he was the one who mentioned redundancy. I am the one who stated we should trust electronics (as i stated with calculators). I don't think you're reading correctly.

I'm reading it correctly... don't worry about it, it's all . My comment was a joke and it was in reference of Dm taking electronics apart in his BMW to double check that's everything is redundant that can cause his car to go out of control....

[philsteroni]

Originally Posted by Belarus

I'm reading it correctly... don't worry about it, it's all . My comment was a joke and it was in reference of Dm taking electronics apart in his BMW to double check that's everything is redundant that can cause his car to go out of control....

Oops! I didn't catch the sarcasm.

[Wake27]

Originally Posted by kfiend

This is going to be an interesting thread. As your reliability question goes with most aftermarket mods, specially ECU related.

Now, where is the pop-corn....

Gotchyo back brochacho.

[Dm]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I'm not really an EE but I believe that is why they went with a pwm/low pass filter design instead of a stand alone DAC. If the processor locks up the PWM will be stuck either high or low. There are provisions on the firmware to handle various shut down / lock up scenarios as well. It's a simple well proven system but I suppose there are always some risks you take on when modifying a car.

Mike

My understanding is that PWM is a hardware implemented thing inside most of the modern uCs, so if the firmware hangs up, the PWM continues to run forever with the last loaded counter values, so if it was, say, 75% throttle, it will be 75% forever...

Disclosure: still did not install the thing, using the DS mode and wondering if BMW will ever consider to patch the issue.

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by Dm

My understanding is that PWM is a hardware implemented thing inside most of the modern uCs, so if the firmware hangs up, the PWM continues to run forever with the last loaded counter values, so if it was, say, 75% throttle, it will be 75% forever...

Disclosure: still did not install the thing, using the DS mode and wondering if BMW will ever consider to patch the issue.

You think too much. You already know how the PBX works, it is what you don't know that might kill you, like exactly when your tire may blow out, or exactly when you may run into a drunk driver.

People worry about things they know or think they have control over, but in reality those that you do not have control over are more likely to kill you but you don't worry about them since they are out of your control.

[Dark_Knight_335]

Originally Posted by dtc100

You think too much. You already know how the PBX works, it is what you don't know that might kill you, like exactly when your tire may blow out, or exactly when you may run into a drunk driver.

People worry about things they know or think they have control over, but in reality those that you do not have control over are more likely to kill you but you don't worry about them since they are out of your control.

Amen to that

[blimey]

Originally Posted by Dm

Really? Why do people ever use redundant computers at fault critical applications, if "calculators" never fail ?

You are over analyzing things. For the sake of "computers at fault critical applications", various reasons apply but the prevalent reason is it's compliance and IT standard driven. I should know this as this is my field.
In my opinion, these are cost heavy and when designing an infrastructure in beginning, you design it with the best hardware available with the lowest risk of failure.

I think the same has been applied to the Powerbox. However, real world experience would carry the most weight. I don't think there has been any reported problems yet.

Edit: this sub-forum is certainly not for the faint of heart.

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by blimey

You are over analyzing things. For the sake of "computers at fault critical applications", various reasons apply but the prevalent reason is it's compliance and IT standard driven. I should know this as this is my field.
In my opinion, these are cost heavy and when designing an infrastructure in beginning, you design it with the best hardware available with the lowest risk of failure.

I think the same has been applied to the Powerbox. However, real world experience would carry the most weight. I don't think there has been any reported problems yet.

Edit: this sub-forum is certainly not for the faint of heart.

I don't think he is the faint of heart. I am pretty sure he understands he will have a much higher chance getting in an accident for reasons other than the PBX, yet he is still driving

Anyone who dares to drive cannot be the faint of heart unless he does not realize that driving is a very risky business.

[Dm]

Originally Posted by dtc100

You think too much. You already know how the PBX works, it is what you don't know that might kill you, like exactly when your tire may blow out, or exactly when you may run into a drunk driver.

People worry about things they know or think they have control over, but in reality those that you do not have control over are more likely to kill you but you don't worry about them since they are out of your control.

Doctor, do I have a chance ?

I still think that the aftermarket modules that you buy for your car should be reliable by design. I agree there are no reported issues but this does not prove to me anything.

Actually any "extra" device between the throttle and the DME reduces overall reliability - I am surprised that BMW did not come up with the firmware upgrade to remap the poorly mapped thing.

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by Dm

Doctor, do I have a chance ?

I still think that the aftermarket modules that you buy for your car should be reliable by design. I agree there are no reported issues but this does not prove to me anything.

Actually any "extra" device between the throttle and the DME reduces overall reliability - I am surprised that BMW did not come up with the firmware upgrade to remap the poorly mapped thing.

I see your concern now, you see I am a good doctor

If your concern is an added item between the throttle and the DM, i.e., a piggyback unit, get the AA tune or the OE tune, just don't expect BMW to do anything, if they make the 328 drive much better and faster, who is going to pay a lot of more money for a 335 or the future new generation of NA 3s?

[xxp0loxx]

Originally Posted by philsteroni

We are talking about cars, not Nasa space ships or Nuclear missile technology. If you start worrying about your PBX not working correctly, you might as well start worrying about your airbags not deploying and your active steering going nuts. Bmw's already rely on dozens of computer modules to make the car run properly and safely, the PBX is just one more.

Hehe, you do know NASA electronics and nuclear missile tech is from......the 60's right. just trolling, ignore me