[peterg1965]

Originally Posted by dar2008

It seems clear to me that it's expedient for the west to have a North Korea in the world. Just consider for a moment all the scary headline news stories over the past couple of days regarding NK. Now today, what should be headlining the BBC news page? An article by our PM in the Telegraph saying how we must keep our nuclear deterrent. Umm, I could be wrong, but I suspect that article was penned sometime before the NK stories of the last couple of days. If people perceived the world to be peaceful, there would be less support for keeping our nuclear deterrent.

In the past, it's been convenient to have Sadam in Iraq, and Gadafi in Libya. Now that they're gone, NK is the enemy of choice for the west, after all we must have enemies, otherwise large chunks of our defence industry would be pointless.

You are wrong. It has nothing to do with NK, the timing of PM's statement is entirely coincidental.

[Teutonicdriver]

Originally Posted by dar2008

In the past, it's been convenient to have Sadam in Iraq, and Gadafi in Libya. Now that they're gone, NK is the enemy of choice for the west, after all we must have enemies, otherwise large chunks of our defence industry would be pointless.

Convenient? Tell that to the families of the dead servicemen.
Enemy of choice?? NK is 'led' by a madman who is threatening nuclear attacks, and who has a proven nuclear capability. Should that just be ignored then?
Perhaps if we bury out heads in the sand and get rid of our defence assets and industry everything will go away and we can all live in a big peaceful fluffy world.

[MEGA]

Christ I've avoided this thread till now. There are some prize idiots about eh?

It's convenient to have a psychopathic fascist dictator threatening the free world with a nuclear apocolypse because we can therefore continue to keep a couple of subs in operation? What the hell are you smoking !!!!

Dave

[Guvernator]

My post was slightly tongue in cheek but provoked the exact kind of reaction I expected. This might come as a huge shock to some but what you are spoon fed by the media about what goes in the world is very far from the truth and there is far more going on under the surface then is let on.

Believing that the US doesn't have a long term game plan and that this little flare up in "evil" NK isn't being used to their advantage in some way is naive in the extreme.

[dar2008]

Originally Posted by Teutonicdriver

Convenient? Tell that to the families of the dead servicemen.
Enemy of choice?? NK is 'led' by a madman who is threatening nuclear attacks, and who has a proven nuclear capability. Should that just be ignored then?
Perhaps if we bury out heads in the sand and get rid of our defence assets and industry everything will go away and we can all live in a big peaceful fluffy world.

Heck, I'm in no way intending to belittle the sacrifice of our armed services! I'm merely suggesting that things aren't always what they seem.

Originally Posted by MEGA

Christ I've avoided this thread till now. There are some prize idiots about eh?

It's convenient to have a psychopathic fascist dictator threatening the free world with a nuclear apocolypse because we can therefore continue to keep a couple of subs in operation? What the hell are you smoking !!!!

Dave

Never smoked Dave (maybe that's the problem!). Of course you may well be right that the NK leader is just a psychopathic fascist dictator hell bent on a nuclear apocolypse - but then we only have our governments and media outlets view on that, and right now having NK at the top of the headlines rather than the financial crisis is appealing to our government(s). That's all I'm saying.

[dar2008]

Originally Posted by Guvernator

My post was slightly tongue in cheek but provoked the exact kind of reaction I expected. This might come as a huge shock to some but what you are spoon fed by the media about what goes in the world is very far from the truth and there is far more going on under the surface then is let on.

Believing that the US doesn't have a long term game plan and that this little flare up in "evil" NK isn't being used to their advantage in some way is naive in the extreme.

+1

[xenon]

Ah, the more educated and perceptive among us, who have probably never set foot in the place, speak out.

Yes, it's all orchestrated by the CIA, Kim is a really nice bloke, there are no gulags or starvation in DPRK but morons like us in the west lap up everything our media and intelligence services tell us.

Just as well there are a few who can see through the CIA smokescreen and tell the rest of us dumb followers what is really going on.

As you obviously know what they [the US] will gain by this; what their advantage is, perhaps you'd be good enought to share that with those less enlightened.

[dar2008]

Originally Posted by xenon

Ah, the more educated and perceptive among us, who have probably never set foot in the place, speak out.

Yes, it's all orchestrated by the CIA, Kim is a really nice bloke, there are no gulags or starvation in DPRK but morons like us in the west lap up everything our media and intelligence services tell us.

Just as well there are a few who can see through the CIA smokescreen and tell the rest of us dumb followers what is really going on.

As you obviously know what they [the US] will gain by this; what their advantage is, perhaps you'd be good enought to share that with those less enlightened.

I certainly wouldn't claim to be better educated or more perceptive than anybody, much less on this forum. I'm simply voicing my opinion (yes, we're all individuals).

I'm not saying it's all orchestrated by the CIA and that Kim is a really nice bloke - But at the same time I'm not saying that he's a crazed fascist intent on nuclear Armageddon. It may turn out that he is (or was!) one of those things in time, but I suspect that as with many things, the truth is usually somewhere in between.

[Cyprio]

Originally Posted by xenon

All this stuff about it somehow being Bush's fault (moron that he was) is nonsense; he couldn't find North Korea on a map. Likewise blaming the US in general.

I've spent some time in South Korea, I've seen the huge US airbases just north of Seoul and I know that the South Korean people are grateful for their presence to deter constant aggression from the North. In the DMZ, it's the DPRK that have dropped all the concrete blocks.

South Korea is a Western ally and like the UK has US airbases on its soil. It's not surprising that the US are preparing a defence strategy of both their bases and SK as a whole; what are they supposed to do?

The entire rhetoric was started by Kim Jong-un and had nothing to do with any US aggression but as it's so fashionable to blame everything on US foreign policy the ignorant jump on the bandwagon.

The US and SK are quite happy to ignore DPRK if they were not threatening war.

In complete agreement with this.

North Korea have bullied South Korea and got away with it for far too long. Making nuclear threats against another country in this day-and-age should not be taken lightly; least of all when they're coming from an unbalanced nation such as NK.

Totally understand where the US are coming from, although it's purely my own perception that I also suspect there is some muscle-flexing focussed towards China.

[Teutonicdriver]

Conspiracy theorists eh? Bless em. Its good that we have our armed forces (and all their nasty weapons) here to protect them when their silly ideas prove to be complete poo.

[Cyprio]

Originally Posted by Teutonicdriver

Conspiracy theorists eh? Bless em. Its good that we have our armed forces (and all their nasty weapons) here to protect them when their silly ideas prove to be complete poo.

If that's aimed at me, then in the immortal words of a fellow forum member - you can feck right off.

[Guvernator]

I have huge respect for the armed forces. I've had to do a short stint in national service. My brother in law works in bomb disposal in a very dangerous part of the world and has been in a situation where they've had to literally scrape bits of his friends off him when it's gone wrong so I never underestimate or demean the effort that they put in to defend peace. I am also realistic enough to know that war and the necessity for defence has provided some of the biggest breakthroughs in technology for mankind so I'm not some Greenpeace activist advocating we should throw away all our weapons.

However what I do question is the politicians who wield these forces and their ultimate goals\aims. I'm not some tin foil hat wearing nutter but I'm also not going to blindly believe what I am told to believe, especially when these days those armed forces are not used to defend our homes but instead used to attack anyone who doesn't look or think like us. None of the wars\conflicts in my lifetime have been about protecting the innocent, this is a FACT, why should I think this is anything different?

[xenon]

Originally Posted by Guvernator

None of the wars\conflicts in my lifetime have been about protecting the innocent, this is a FACT

Really? When were you born?

[rich1068]

Conspiracy theories make me smile but somehow fill me with despair at the same time. Can I be the first to mention 9/11? Just wanted to get in there before anyone else does.

[Guvernator]

Originally Posted by xenon

Really? When were you born?

In the 70's

Sorry I should clarify that statement though, none of the wars fought by the US\UK in my lifetime has been about defending ourselve or the innocent.

[xenon]

Falklands? You might argue about to whom the Islands should belong but the fact is the islands are British and the innocent inhabitants of those islands were occupied by an armed, foreign aggressor in an invasion. If that's not both defending ourselves and the innocent, I don't know what is.

Like Rich1068, I too despair.

[dobbo99]

I'm hoping I don't get crucified for asking such a question but I'm missing something.......what do North Korea and Lil Kim get to gain if they were to impose an attack on the Western World, or the USA?

I don't/can't see what the end result is? Other than some sort of satisfaction in revenge for the US supporting South Korea in years gone by.

[Sportplus]

Originally Posted by xenon

Falklands? You might argue about to whom the Islands should belong but the fact is the islands are British and the innocent inhabitants of those islands were occupied by an armed, foreign aggressor in an invasion. If that's not both defending ourselves and the innocent, I don't know what is.

Like Rich1068, I too despair.

+1 but after that I'm struggling.


War = Greed IMO

[Guvernator]

Originally Posted by xenon

Falklands? You might argue about to whom the Islands should belong but the fact is the islands are British and the innocent inhabitants of those islands were occupied by an armed, foreign aggressor in an invasion. If that's not both defending ourselves and the innocent, I don't know what is.

Like Rich1068, I too despair.

I did actually think about the Falklands straight after I wrote that statement so I'll give you that one, no need to despair.

Nothing the Western Coalition forces have fought in since has been about anything other than greed though so I'm afraid I now take any statements of "they are evil and a huge threat to the free world" with a massive pinch of salt.

[briers]

Yep

Last thing I want is another war, nobody deserves to die in war even Kim dick hung.

I never had a problem with him, NK has been plastered all over the media with threats of nuclear action. So I'm not jumping on the hate NK bandwagon.

I just hope it doesn't materialise hence my posting here. I don't know enough about it.

But if I was him I would launch it if I wanted to, not put it through the media.

[xenon]

Originally Posted by Guvernator

I now take any statements of "they are evil and a huge threat to the free world" with a massive pinch of salt.

I'd tend to agree if it were anyone other than North Korea. I've looked over the fence-line though, and they're fecking nuts.

[Teutonicdriver]

Originally Posted by Cyprio

If that's aimed at me, then in the immortal words of a fellow forum member - you can feck right off.

Excellent!
In my experience though conspiracy theorists are usually so wide of the mark that they make me smile.... a lot.