[007_e350]

So I put the low SAPS Amsoil this time and the truck feels more responsive and much quicker at high speeds, anyone knows if Low SAPS is an issue ? I do oil changes at 4k

[DETSGTSTARSKY]

No actually the low saps formulation is what you want to use. This is to protect the DPF and the overall emissions system in diesel vehicles.

[BB_cuda]

For the less informed, what is SAPS?

[Owen81]

From: http://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/auto...-saps-content/

What is SAPS?

SAPS stands for sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulfur. They comprise a significant portion of a motor oil’s additive content. Sulfated ash is not added to oil; it is the result of additives in the oil burning and creating ash. The additives that can produce ash are most commonly used for total base number (TBN), but also help in other areas, like antioxidancy, anti-wear, cleanliness and soot handling. Phosphorus provides anti-wear properties and further antioxidancy, while sulfur contributes antioxidancy, anti-wear properties and engine cleanliness.

Basically all the good stuff in oil that they reduce because it clogs DPFs...

[007_e350]

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

For the less informed, what is SAPS?

What is SAPS?

SAPS stands for sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulfur. They comprise a significant portion of a motor oil’s additive content. Sulfated ash is not added to oil; it is the result of additives in the oil burning and creating ash. The additives that can produce ash are most commonly used for total base number (TBN), but also help in other areas, like antioxidancy, anti-wear, cleanliness and soot handling. Phosphorus provides anti-wear properties and further antioxidancy, while sulfur contributes antioxidancy, anti-wear properties and engine cleanliness.

SAPS Levels

Given the beneficial properties these additives impart, it’s easy to assume a higher concentration equals a better oil. But higher SAPS levels can be a detriment to expensive exhaust devices, such as diesel particulate filters (DPFs) and catalysts. The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA) and original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) realized the importance of using motor oil formulated with precise SAPS levels, and lower limits were established in 2010.

The three different SAPS levels of European motor oils can be confusing, especially when considering the same viscosity motor oil (5W-40) is available in mid- and full-SAPS AMSOIL European Car Formula options.

[007_e350]

Originally Posted by Owen81

From: http://www.amsoil.com/newsstand/auto...-saps-content/

What is SAPS?

SAPS stands for sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulfur. They comprise a significant portion of a motor oil’s additive content. Sulfated ash is not added to oil; it is the result of additives in the oil burning and creating ash. The additives that can produce ash are most commonly used for total base number (TBN), but also help in other areas, like antioxidancy, anti-wear, cleanliness and soot handling. Phosphorus provides anti-wear properties and further antioxidancy, while sulfur contributes antioxidancy, anti-wear properties and engine cleanliness.

Basically all the good stuff in oil that they reduce because it clogs DPFs...

oops looks like we posted from the same website lol

[Owen81]

Originally Posted by 007_e350

oops looks like we posted from the same website lol

Its a good explanation

Seems that they use more expensive additives in place of the SAPS, or the oil takes more refining to remove the sulfur as the lower SAP oils are quite a bit more expensive. ~50% more for the Low-Full Amsoil in Canada.

If you look at the data sheets of the different levels of SAPS Amsoil makes, you see that the TBN of the oil decreases dramatically with lower levels. Which is fine unless you are planning for extended drain intervals.

--------------------TBN
5w40 Full-SAPS - 10.1
5w40 Mid-SAPS - 8.0
5w30 Low-SAPS - 5.8

[007_e350]

Originally Posted by Owen81

Its a good explanation

Seems that they use more expensive additives in place of the SAPS, or the oil takes more refining to remove the sulfur as the lower SAP oils are quite a bit more expensive. ~50% more for the Low-Full Amsoil in Canada.

If you look at the data sheets of the different levels of SAPS Amsoil makes, you see that the TBN of the oil decreases dramatically with lower levels. Which is fine unless you are planning for extended drain intervals.

--------------------TBN
5w40 Full-SAPS - 10.1
5w40 Mid-SAPS - 8.0
5w30 Low-SAPS - 5.8

I change mine shy of 4k miles regardless, I do feel the car is more responsive at high speeds but I don't want any other issues either, dunno if the castrol BMW uses is low SAPS ?

[bvanlieu]

Originally Posted by 007_e350

I change mine shy of 4k miles regardless, I do feel the car is more responsive at high speeds but I don't want any other issues either, dunno if the castrol BMW uses is low SAPS ?

The Castrol bottles were OEM/SLX and a LL04 low saps. With the switch to SOPUS, if its not a custom blend, it is Pennzoil Euro-L 5w30 which is LL04. I have a few cases of it in my basement (go Amazon) for my next few oil changes and am running it right now.

I ran an UOA on a 10K drain of the Castrol in our 335d, and came back just fine in terms of TBN retention in my use case. I am happy with 10K-12K changes though 80+% of our miles is highway. If your are all city with your X less miles makes sense though IMHO 4K is a bit on the low side

- b

[007_e350]

Originally Posted by bvanlieu

The Castrol bottles were OEM/SLX and a LL04 low saps. With the switch to SOPUS, if its not a custom blend, it is Pennzoil Euro-L 5w30 which is LL04. I have a few cases of it in my basement (go Amazon) for my next few oil changes and am running it right now.

I ran an UOA on a 10K drain of the Castrol in our 335d, and came back just fine in terms of TBN retention in my use case. I am happy with 10K-12K changes though 80+% of our miles is highway. If your are all city with your X less miles makes sense though IMHO 4K is a bit on the low side

- b

I can clearly see the following between Dealer Oil (Castrol 5w-30 LL04) & Amsoil Low SAPS (5w-30) .. On Amsoil the car feels very smooth and responsive at higher speeds, MPG highway is better too .. but the city driving is weird, I think more rattling noise on stop & go acceleration

With Dealer oil, rattling is little less on accelerations but doesn't feel the same at high speeds, kinda noisy at all times, slightly better in stop & go but highway speeds feel bogged down comparatively

How can you guys explain this difference in behavior between the 2 oils - Dealer Oil was $60, Amsoil $96

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by 007_e350

I can clearly see the following between Dealer Oil (Castrol 5w-30 LL04) & Amsoil Low SAPS (5w-30) .. On Amsoil the car feels very smooth and responsive at higher speeds, MPG highway is better too .. but the city driving is weird, I think more rattling noise on stop & go acceleration

With Dealer oil, rattling is little less on accelerations but doesn't feel the same at high speeds, kinda noisy at all times, slightly better in stop & go but highway speeds feel bogged down comparatively

How can you guys explain this difference in behavior between the 2 oils - Dealer Oil was $60, Amsoil $96

The difference is all in your head, IMO. Sorry, but I'm calling it as I believe it to be. When you have to do a UOA to even discover the minor differences between two oils that are both "meeting" a rigid specification like LL-01/LL-04, which specifies min-max limits on viscosity and other properties, any differences in what your believe you are perceiving are imaginary.

[DWR]

+1

[007_e350]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

The difference is all in your head, IMO. Sorry, but I'm calling it as I believe it to be. When you have to do a UOA to even discover the minor differences between two oils that are both "meeting" a rigid specification like LL-01/LL-04, which specifies min-max limits on viscosity and other properties, any differences in what your believe you are perceiving are imaginary.

I would agree if my wife didn't tell me the same thing.. two drivers both felt the same .. I'll try motul next and see what happens