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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > What exhaust set up to go with AA Headers??



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      03-12-2018, 08:00 AM   #1
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What exhaust set up to go with AA Headers??

Looking to make some exhaust upgrades and for some opinions from those running AA headers and what exhaust you have and if you like it. Currently I have:

AA Headers
Stock Secondary Cats
Stock Resonator
Stock Muffler

I am the guy who likes having a sleeper, so I’m not looking for straight pipes or the BMW PE. I leave every morning around 5:00am and don’t want to wake all my neighbors on a cold start and drive off. It seems pretty well documented the PE is not good with headers.

So I’m looking for more “quiet power” which I realize is a contradiction lol.

Based on some reading I was leaning towards deleting the secondary cats and adding the AA Gen 2 muffler. From what I’ve read the AA Gen 2 is fairly quiet compared to the PE.

Then I was thinking of keeping the stock resonator but I see AA also has their own mid pipe with a resonator but I’m not sure I see the value in it.

Here’s a clip I found of a forumer with the complete AA set up AA Headers>AA Mid Pipes>AA Muffler and I actually think it sounds good but im wondering if it’s probably too loud for what I’m after. Hard to tell from one video...

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      03-12-2018, 09:05 AM   #2
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I couldn't find anything of the shelf that meets my needs - MAYBE the Magnaflow and Borla systems...but like the Active systems, the mid Pipe from the merger is 2.5" vs around 2.75-3" for stock.

How much of a difference does it make? I'm sure not a lot, but if I'm paying for it, I want it to be how I want it to be.

The removal of the secondaries, merger (a nice quality one can boost torque) and good muffler is worth about -10-15whp all together.
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      03-12-2018, 09:09 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Looking to make some exhaust upgrades and for some opinions from those running AA headers and what exhaust you have and if you like it. Currently I have:

AA Headers
Stock Secondary Cats
Stock Resonator
Stock Muffler

I am the guy who likes having a sleeper, so I’m not looking for straight pipes or the BMW PE. I leave every morning around 5:00am and don’t want to wake all my neighbors on a cold start and drive off. It seems pretty well documented the PE is not good with headers.

So I’m looking for more “quiet power” which I realize is a contradiction lol.

Based on some reading I was leaning towards deleting the secondary cats and adding the AA Gen 2 muffler. From what I’ve read the AA Gen 2 is fairly quiet compared to the PE.

Then I was thinking of keeping the stock resonator but I see AA also has their own mid pipe with a resonator but I’m not sure I see the value in it.

Here’s a clip I found of a forumer with the complete AA set up AA Headers>AA Mid Pipes>AA Muffler and I actually think it sounds good but im wondering if it’s probably too loud for what I’m after. Hard to tell from one video...

I would leave it alone if you want quiet and sleeper. Headers already make the car sound meaner on higher RPMs .

Secondary cat delete will make it a bit louder , also smelly , you could try that first before adding an aftermarket muffler on top of that

Now , if you want more engine noise , like sportier sound coming from the engine bay , I would recommend doing the charcoal delete and k and n filter drop , it will mix very well with the headers making it like a sporty car and it will also add a bit more power and responsiveness. Is also a cheap mod ( under 100 bucks) that you can do yourself. If you want a bit more aggressive sound afe intake is an option , expensive option if you ask me .

As per mufflers , check out the magnaflow , there are a few videos on youtube, it has a deep sound . I heard it in person and it actually sounds pretty good.

I think the PE muffler is the quietest out of all the "aftermarket" mufflers out there.
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      03-12-2018, 11:21 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
I couldn't find anything of the shelf that meets my needs - MAYBE the Magnaflow and Borla systems...but like the Active systems, the mid Pipe from the merger is 2.5" vs around 2.75-3" for stock.

How much of a difference does it make? I'm sure not a lot, but if I'm paying for it, I want it to be how I want it to be.

The removal of the secondaries, merger (a nice quality one can boost torque) and good muffler is worth about -10-15whp all together.
I looked for a Borla cat back system and can’t even find one listed for the E92 328i. I have a magnaflow on my Jeep never thought to look at them.

The MF system for the e92 328i is a better value than the AA for sure it’s probably $250 cheaper than buying the AA muffler and Mid Pipe which are sold separately. The MF also sounds really good in this video just not sure about power gains with it:



Edit:

According to this chart I found on Hotrod Magazine website the 2.5” is only good for like 250hp:



I also remember reading that 3” exhaust are good for up to about 330hp on another website.

Last edited by Biginboca; 03-12-2018 at 11:30 AM..
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      03-12-2018, 11:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
I looked for a Borla cat back system and can’t even find one listed for the E92 328i. I have a magnaflow on my Jeep never thought to look at them.

The MF system for the e92 328i is a better value than the AA for sure it’s probably $250 cheaper than buying the AA muffler and Mid Pipe which are sold separately. The MF also sounds really good in this video just not sure about power gains with it:



Edit:

According to this chart I found on Hotrod Magazine website the 2.5” is only good for like 250hp:



I also remember reading that 3” exhaust are good for up to about 330hp on another website.
Meaningless and arbitrary.
Check out post #2 and #15
https://my350z.com/forum/intake-exha...k-for-n-a.html


Picture is unavailable, but according to Borla, the exhaust was worth 10whp:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...a#post17945382

Anyhow, anything for the E90 should fit the E92, but the there may need to be some trimming of the pipes.


Magnaflow and Borla mufflers both flow well, but the Magnaflow tend to be louder.
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      03-12-2018, 12:06 PM   #6
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So does the car in that first video you posted still have the secondary cats? Either way, I can tell you, without a doubt... that car is LOUD.

If I were you I would probably start by deleting the secondary cats, as those are now your biggest power eaters, and then go from there. aFe Race Pipes or SuperSprint Section 1 are the ticket.

Then, if you don't like how the exhaust sounds, I would start working on your own custom setup that I believe will consist of a resonated y-pipe plus a custom muffler/tip setup. I'm tempted to suggest AA Headers -> aFe Race Pipes -> Stock mid-pipe -> BMW PE Muffler (Only), but I still think that would put you in "obvious aftermarket exhaust" territory, thus removing sleeper status. I'm not saying it would be loud, but it wouldn't sound like stock, that's for sure.

IMO, it will never be a "sleeper" if you touch the exhaust anymore. I haven't heard them in person, but I am assuming that the AA headers alone are giving you a bit more growl than stock.. probably to the level of a completely stock 370Z or maybe stock M3? Maybe a bit quieter? I think even race pipes alone are going to make the car louder than most stock cars, thus removing sleeper status. Perhaps leaving the secondaries alone and going with a custom cat-back setup will keep everything relatively quiet, resulting in a "quasi-sleeper" setup, but I doubt that change would give you more than 5 HP max.

The BMW Performance Exhaust (which I'm aware you've already, rightfully, crossed off the list) is actually NOT a "super-quiet" exhaust like so many here claim. I would say it's a 100% average volume aftermarket exhaust system. The muffler might be relatively quiet, but combined with the deletion of the mid-pipe resonator, the sound level is average I'd say. These cars just have so much sound deadening, and the exhaust is so well designed to not drone, that driver's can't really hear it inside. With the windows down and passing traffic or a close-by building, though, it's pretty dang loud.

Last edited by atmosphericM; 03-13-2018 at 12:43 PM..
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      03-12-2018, 12:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atmosphericM View Post
So does the car in that first video you posted still have the secondary cats? Either way, I can tell you, without a doubt... that car is LOUD.
IIRC, that car has AA headers, AA mids and AA gen 2 exhaust - essentially, entire exhaust on it is from AA.
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      03-12-2018, 12:24 PM   #8
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So just to be clear, do AA "mid pipes" delete the cats? It gets weird talking about exhaust offerings for this platform because some people refer to the cat pipes as "front pipes" and some "mid pipes." To me the "mid pipe" is the Y pipe on this car (after the secondary cats), part of the cat-back exhaust as it typically is, and the cats are housed in "front pipes" or, just call them "cats" which are replaced with "race pipes" or "test pipes."
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      03-12-2018, 12:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atmosphericM View Post
So just to be clear, do AA "mid pipes" delete the cats? It gets weird talking about exhaust offerings for this platform because some people refer to the cat pipes as "front pipes" and some "mid pipes." To me the "mid pipe" is the Y pipe on this car (after the secondary cats), part of the cat-back exhaust as it typically is, and the cats are housed in "front pipes" or, just call them "cats" which are replaced with "race pipes" or "test pipes."
They don’t delete the cats
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      03-12-2018, 12:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
They don’t delete the cats
OK, that's what I figured. I would expect way more rasp with full exhaust and zero cats.

So basically that sort-of agrees with what I'm thinking. That video is essentially your car with the addition of a cat-back exhaust (and a supposedly quiet one at that), and I can tell you from my years of exhaust video analyzing (lol) that it is definitely loud. I don't know much about the AA setup but I bet it's about the same loudness as BMW PE, maybe a tad quieter.

I still think your best bet is ditching the secondaries and going from there. Anything else will probably be a custom setup, doing everything you can to reduce the noise. My two cents...
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      03-12-2018, 01:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Meaningless and arbitrary.
Check out post #2 and #15
https://my350z.com/forum/intake-exha...k-for-n-a.html


Picture is unavailable, but according to Borla, the exhaust was worth 10whp:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...a#post17945382

Anyhow, anything for the E90 should fit the E92, but the there may need to be some trimming of the pipes.


Magnaflow and Borla mufflers both flow well, but the Magnaflow tend to be louder.
If I read those posts you linked correctly there’s most benefit to having 3” exhaust after the y pipe and 2.5” or even 2.25” would be better before the y. Am I interpreting that right?

The AA midpipes are 3” from the y back and the magnaflow is 2.5” the full length so restrictive and less power.

That makes me want to say forget the magnaflow and do the full AA set up. In the AA video I posted you can’t really even hear the car idling until he revs it. I wish someone else had the full set up I’d like to hear it.

Another alternative would be Secondary Cat Delete (AFE race piped) and the AA midpipe (has resonator) and keep the stock muffler. I could see that set up making an extra 10whp maybe.
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      03-12-2018, 01:28 PM   #12
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Btw I once read a post by justpete where he said with no cats he never noticed much smell at all. Supposedly these engines burn pretty clean.

Is anyone else running no cats (primary and secondary deleted) and care to comment?
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      03-12-2018, 02:26 PM   #13
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is not smelly inside the cabin , but it is smelly outside , like when someone drives behind you , or at night when you come home. On a hot day with the windows down I could smell it . This is only with primary cats out

I have a pretty good sense of smell though.

My civic with catless headers was less smelly than the BMW so I m not sure how clean these cars are burning

I ve seen another 328 at the shop with AA headers with the same smell , talking to the mechanic he said all the ones he has done have the same smell.

Its not really a big deal , as I said before inside the cabin , unless the windows are down and the weather is really hot , its not noticeable. Its just a bit annoying when you are picking up people or people are asking you why you car smell like that. I also became pretty aware of the smell when coming home at night where you could really smell it. Having a "luxury car" smelling like that was not really my thing . If I had a muscle car , maybe ...

I m guessing with secondary cats delete , it would be worse , so maybe it would be a bigger deal.

But again , it really depends on your sense of smell , my brother noticed the smell as soon as I pull in the driveway , while my wife did not notice anything . It was like that with other friends too
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      03-12-2018, 03:01 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
If I read those posts you linked correctly there’s most benefit to having 3” exhaust after the y pipe and 2.5” or even 2.25” would be better before the y. Am I interpreting that right?

The AA midpipes are 3” from the y back and the magnaflow is 2.5” the full length so restrictive and less power.

That makes me want to say forget the magnaflow and do the full AA set up. In the AA video I posted you can’t really even hear the car idling until he revs it. I wish someone else had the full set up I’d like to hear it.

Another alternative would be Secondary Cat Delete (AFE race piped) and the AA midpipe (has resonator) and keep the stock muffler. I could see that set up making an extra 10whp maybe.

Yes and no.

What he's saying is that there is no power to be gained after the merger, but you can lose power by using to small diameter piping can cause a loss. Again, no one is saying it's major either way, but if you're paying for it - get what YOU want.

He also pointed out that the smaller diameter pipes to the merger (y pipe) keep exhaust velocity up, and aid with scavenging. At the Y pipe, having a proper Y pipe size (2.25 seems to be a good choice) aided torque and horsepower.

None of the products you can buy actually come with 3" diameter mid pipes, including Active.

If it were me, I would be using the SS mids (around 53-54mm) instead of the larger AFE 64mm mids which did show some low end torque loss. And have 2.25 Y to 3" mid to whatever muffler and resonator you want.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
Btw I once read a post by justpete where he said with no cats he never noticed much smell at all. Supposedly these engines burn pretty clean.

Is anyone else running no cats (primary and secondary deleted) and care to comment?
Still smells. Unless you have the windows down, or your behind the car, you don't notice it too much.
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      03-12-2018, 03:28 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
Still smells. Unless you have the windows down, or your behind the car, you don't notice it too much.
Also, if you think that's what a car oughta smell like in the first place it escapes notice, I suspect.
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      03-12-2018, 04:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAxiom View Post
None of the products you can buy actually come with 3" diameter mid pipes, including Active.
According to the procduct description of the Active midpipe on the ECS website it is 3”. I feel like based on everything I have read there’s no way I (or anyone) would want anything under 3” after the y section.



Based on your advice I’m leaning towards starting with the SS cat deletes and the AA 3” midpipe and seeing how that sounds with stock muffler.

Seems like that would pick up some power and still have a more conservative sound.

Last edited by Biginboca; 03-12-2018 at 04:51 PM..
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      03-12-2018, 04:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
According to the procduct description of the Active midpipe on the ECS website it is 3”. I feel like based on everything I have read there’s no way I (or anyone) would want anything under 3” after the y section.
This reads more like a description of a catback. Midpipes would have to bolt up to the header flanges and should be smaller diameter to keep flow velocity high.
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      03-12-2018, 05:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biginboca View Post
According to the procduct description of the Active midpipe on the ECS website it is 3”. I feel like based on everything I have read there’s no way I (or anyone) would want anything under 3” after the y section.



Based on your advice I’m leaning towards starting with the SS cat deletes and the AA 3” midpipe and seeing how that sounds with stock muffler.

Seems like that would pick up some power and still have a more conservative sound.
For things that I read, I have an exceptionally good memory. I will say that I was told it was going be 2.5" (from Active directly - but this was pre development) and if it's not, that's awesome.
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      03-12-2018, 05:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
This reads more like a description of a catback. Midpipes would have to bolt up to the header flanges and should be smaller diameter to keep flow velocity high.
For all purposes here, I believe, mid-pipes refer to the section after the cats. The front-pipe/section or "cat section" bolts to the headers.

Last edited by atmosphericM; 03-12-2018 at 05:16 PM..
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      03-12-2018, 05:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by atmosphericM View Post
For all purposes here, I believe, mid-pipes refer to the section after the cats. The front-pipe/section or "cat section" bolts to the headers.
Thanks. I always think of midpipes as the ones with the secondaries but that's a misinterpretation then.
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      03-12-2018, 05:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Thanks. I always think of midpipes as the ones with the secondaries but that's a misinterpretation then.
I'm with you on this one...
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      03-12-2018, 05:16 PM   #22
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How much of a difference, really, do you guys think there is between the aFe and SuperSprint offerings, power wise? I'm seeing that you guys say smaller is better right after the headers, whereas aFe obviously disagrees as they went out of their way to increase the sizing of that section of piping (even though their flanges are the OE sizes). According to aFe that is to "maximize efficiency and sound" or something to that effect, but here I am seeing other views on the matter. I haven't bolted mine up but hearing of potential low end TQ loss has me second guessing them.

Last edited by atmosphericM; 03-12-2018 at 05:37 PM..
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