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Is anyone running N54 Intake Manifold?
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04-17-2018, 10:31 PM | #68 | |
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And for 3k, there would be better options (custom) |
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04-18-2018, 03:21 PM | #69 | |
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What happens if you dyno with no intake manifold at all? |
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04-18-2018, 04:48 PM | #70 | |
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Out of all combinations, the highest tq gain were with 3im. N54 yielded high rpm hp gains. |
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04-18-2018, 05:40 PM | #71 | |
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Well it sounds like the biggest restriction is after the IM imo.
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04-18-2018, 05:57 PM | #72 |
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Best solution still appears to be a flowed head + adapter w/S54 ITBs controlled by DME + runner length optimized CSL airbox (3D printed?) w/MAF and yet to be developed BPC tune. Not exactly a simple bolt on at this point unfortunately.
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04-18-2018, 07:05 PM | #73 | |
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Probably need custom grinds unfortunately. And perhaps piston with reliefs. Last edited by Torgus; 04-18-2018 at 07:12 PM.. |
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04-18-2018, 07:16 PM | #74 | |
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04-18-2018, 09:00 PM | #76 | |
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Eventually though it'd be unstreetable as compression goes up, cams get more radical, idle goes way up to stay alive, etc.
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04-19-2018, 09:11 AM | #77 | |
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That is when it starts to get fun Mechanical linkage to the ITBs ftw. F DBW
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04-19-2018, 11:53 AM | #78 |
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Late to this thread, but I'll be the skeptic... EDIT: Looks like TaskMaster beat me to it, so I'll just take away all of my hard work and lave my final thoughts.
...is losing some of the low end power that the 3 stage delivers really worth gaining a few more ponies past redline? To each his own. Definitely sounds like it is to you, Big, so go for it man! I think it's good to at least have found out that the N54 is a fair alternative to the 3 Stage. One great thing about the 3 Stage for the N52 'tinkerers' out there is that they can just upgrade to the stock 330i tune to utilize the 3 Stage whereas one MUST have an aftermarket tune to utilize the N54 mani - effectively making the N54 route much more costly. But still, if a tune is in the cards regardless, a simpler, cheaper N54 mani definitely seems like a good option to consisder vs. the 3 Stage. It all depends on what you're modding for.
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04-19-2018, 12:48 PM | #79 | |
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I'd also barely even consider the M3 to be the same "platform." |
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04-19-2018, 01:04 PM | #80 | |
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100hp? More like 200 (published at 184 to be exact). And if you're comparing the N54/N55 to the S65.. well who cares? One has forced induction. |
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04-19-2018, 01:05 PM | #81 |
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Only for the track, makes no sense on the street as there is no off the shelf tune for it.
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04-19-2018, 01:14 PM | #82 |
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Well my tune just arrived from Bob and the manifold arrives tomorrow. Hoping to start (maybe finish) the swap this weekend and will have some comparison data afterwards.
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04-19-2018, 01:21 PM | #83 | |
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FBO on an N52 is unlikely to gain much more than ~60bhp and it comes at considerable cost even if DIY'ed compared to just increasing boost on an FI engine. I think this is pretty much his point.
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04-19-2018, 02:31 PM | #85 | |
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He sent me those graphs a while back, but I don't remember what all of them were. I'm just going to say the 3 stage manifold can make more top end power (compared to how it is now) with things like the MVS, 4th stage disable, intake and BBTB. But I think the total CFM and shorter runner length of the N54/55 manifold with the same mods would flow better. |
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04-19-2018, 02:59 PM | #86 | ||
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It's an E9x. It is the same platform. You can bolt on the suspension etc to the other models. Plug n play. The value of the M3: High reving NA V8 made for motosport and the track option for the e9X platform. Fine as DD but bad MPG and bearing issues that you should have addressed day 1. Most expensive. The value of the N54: FI motor option for the E9x platform. Capable of more HP than the M3 with FI. Known to have failure points, injectors, coilpacks, etc. Middle price option. The value of the N52: Very reliable, few problems, great DD option for the platform. No real high HP options off the shelf. Least expensive. This is how I look at them and I've owned 2 modded N54s and 1 stock N52. I think the other two engines diminishes the value of an N52 if you want to track it or go 'fast'. If you don't want either the N52 is great if you want a nice reliable DD bmw that with a manual is fun to drive. You want a track E9x you go m3 or spend a lot on an n54 getting it up to M3 standards. You want a high way roll racer cah? go with an N54. Just how I look at it. Not her to offend anyone or turn this into a N52 vs. n54 vs S65 debate. It's been done way too many times before on this forum. Or you can be like JustPete who is building a sick N52 race cah. Which I can't wait to see the finished product btw Quote:
I agree be interesting to see BPCs comments.
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04-19-2018, 03:18 PM | #87 |
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One race perspective point -- the S65 at 4L takes you out of competitive classes and throws you into the GTS/Unlimited realm where it's a dog, comparatively. With NASA however they set your class and penalty points as a function of a Dynojet run taken over a set of rpm points per their spec. Class limits are usually at 3.2L these days and the S54 which you'd think would be competitive really isn't so much. And it's heavy so bhp/ton is a problem as tuning the torque curve to get decent performance for the differential weight throws you up a class where you'll get beaten like a rented mule. An FI N54 is a better choice but you'll need a restrictor plate and care in tuning in the torque curve to get your bhp/ton competitive which means you're not too far off using an M20 or whatever from days gone by and tuning the ever loving shit out of it but that restricts you, generally, to non-e9x platforms. Regardless, it's stoooopid costly except in the club circuits where it's just credit card abuse and lotsa late nights in the garage cursing life. Which is all completely forgotten once you're on the grid. Theoretically.
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04-19-2018, 03:32 PM | #88 | |||
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For me, my primary interest in this is for my N52 swap - the 3 stage doesn't fit anyway, and I see the N52 as a sort of baby-S54. 300bhp should be attainable without messing with Valvetronic (obviously, much more is possible if you go wild as Pete likes to do), we're not even that far off now with the 3-stage and basically a stock motor. That's more than enough for a car that weighs 2700lbs, and I really doubt I'm going to miss the 8ft/lbs especially since the gearing is so much shorter anyway. Quote:
But if you want anything beyond 6900rpm, the 3 stage isn't going to do it. Whether or not BPC overlaid an N54 and tuned 3 stage or not is irrelevant - there are lots of 3 stage tuned dynos, and you won't find a single one that makes power past the stock redline. The resonance design of the 3 stage is clever, but it works against you outside of it's finely tuned parameters. I have tested this myself and there's no way around it. Quote:
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