[ben1364]

lni wrote in part, "<snip>....Ben1364.. I posted on the first page that I had done the mod on Sunday. Somebody hasd asked for a DIY, and I replied it's really not needed. If you have those tools, you can do it without a DIY. Good luck. "

Thanks but no thanks. I don't feel that my engineering skills are such that I can improve on BMWs intake design and hardware. My "huh" in response to your post yesterday afternoon was because I did not understand what you said.

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by lni

I thought you stopped doing that

There is a bit better throttle response. I didn't think there would be, but there is. For you, who has zero personal experience with this mod, to refute any of it is bologna. Being able to suck more air in with less turbulance of the extra charcoal baffle, there will be some gains. I doubt it's much, but it is there.

Warranty issues? it does nothing to the car except for preventing gasses escape after you shut the car off. There are no warranty issues, unless go in to have your car fixed for not halting those pesky gasses after you shut your car off.

lol. Well, you can't really say I have zero experience. With this particular mod, right, no experience. but this mod is just as similar as "freeing" your restrictive stock intake system. Just as same as getting rid of the cat for test pipe, just as same as putting on an aftermarket intake system and completely getting rid of the restrictive oem intake system. And I had lots of experience with that. And let me tell you, even full intake replacement with more gains then this mod, you can't really "feel" the extra power and throttle response. Thats all up in your mind. (even though, I always say the samething as you guys after I get a mod. "It really does make a difference!!" )

You know, I bet you(not just referring to you, but anyone who did this mod) won't even notice if I secretly put back the charcoal filter without letting you know.

And I don't argue about gains. It probably gives you some gains. You know what, if I wasn't waiting for aftermarket intake system, I would do this mod RIGHT NOW. but since im looking for full replacement, thats the only reason im not doing this mod.

As for warranty, like I said in my earlier post, I don't think it voids the warranty.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

lol. Well, you can't really say I have zero experience. With this particular mod, right, no experience. but this mod is just as similar as "freeing" your restrictive stock intake system.

It's similar, but not the same. At least you can admit you know nothing about this particular mod. It is similar to a aftermarket intake system, but has a definitive difference. With aftermarket designs, you are completely modifying the airflow by rerouting the air, and causing a wildly different airflow. That is why different aftermarket intakes with teh same K&N cone filter element produce differing results. However, the removal of the charcoal element modification is simply making the existing path less restrictive.

As for my 39 mile drive into Boston today, there's a few things I noticed. I left the radio muted for the entire drive to note any audible differences, and not be preoccupied with radio programming, as to also take note of any perceived changes in the car's behavior.

There are some things to note:

- Sound differences. Like any aftermarket "freer breathing" add-on, this removal of the charcoal element increases the engine noise. Not nearly as much as the GruppeM I had in my e46 330i's, but there is a noticable difference. This is particularly so at WOT and at higher rpm's when removing your foot from the gas. This may or may not appeal to you, but take note that it will be a bit louder when getting on the gas or removing your foot from the gas at higher rpms. At normal lioghtfooted driving, it's imperceptible. Personally, I like the extra hood music when "getting on it".

- Throttle reponse. I know this is subjective, and I understand skepticism, especially when taking into account extra perceived "oomph" due to the audible difference, BUT it certainly feels like there is a quicker reaction from the gas pedal to actual accelleration. There was a slight lag that is noticably deminished with the removal of the charcoal element. That translates to a bit quicker jump. I am an avid autocrosser, and I'll be looking for any added advantage.

- Added Power. I highly doubt that this adds any power to the car, and even if there were a few added hp's, I know that I could not feel 1-5 hp's added to 255. Even if it did add a modest number, in any practical application, it wouldn't make any noticable difference.

For me, this was a worthwhile 20 minutes of labor, with zero cost, and zero potential harm. You can make your own decision as to doing this or not, but for me.. I think it was well spent time.

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by lni

It's similar, but not the same. At least you can admit you know nothing about this particular mod. It is similar to a aftermarket intake system, but has a definitive difference. With aftermarket designs, you are completely modifying the airflow by rerouting the air, and causing a wildly different airflow. That is why different aftermarket intakes with teh same K&N cone filter element produce differing results. However, the removal of the charcoal element modification is simply making the existing path less restrictive.

Right. But I think we are thinking in two different ways.
Its same basic theory/principle. Restrictive to less restrictive.
Air path might be different, but generally speaking, we are not discussing about air flow and amount of colder/hotter air being forced into intake manifold. You removed the charcoal filter. Result, less restrictive intake system, moving the power band up. Hp/Tq gained. You put on an free flow aftermarket intake system. Result, even less restrictive, moving the power band up even more. Hp/Tq gained(if the aftermarket intake system is properly R&Ded and built).

What Im trying to tell you is very simple.
If you can't feel 15hp/10tq gain from full intake replacement, how can you feel 10hp/5tq gain from charcoal filter removal?
If you can't even feel better throttle response from free flow intake system, how can you feel slight difference in throttle response from removed filter?

Again, its all up in your mind. Don't get me wrong though. I understand what you are saying. It just sounds a bit funny when people say "I feel alot of difference" from minimal gains that human being in general really won't be able to feel. Well, thats unless if you are REALLY REALLY sensitive. I'll just consider as you are one of those sensitive person. Because I am too. Watch, you'll see me bragging about how big of a difference an intake made for the e90 when I get one.

- Sound differences. Like any aftermarket "freer breathing" add-on, this removal of the charcoal element increases the engine noise. Not nearly as much as the GruppeM I had in my e46 330i's, but there is a noticable difference. This is particularly so at WOT and at higher rpm's when removing your foot from the gas. This may or may not appeal to you, but take note that it will be a bit louder when getting on the gas or removing your foot from the gas at higher rpms. At normal lioghtfooted driving, it's imperceptible. Personally, I like the extra hood music when "getting on it".

Is this true??? Because all the M5 owners and few E90 owners who did this mod said there is no difference in sound. If there is... emmm. I am very tempted.

[larryn]

More horsepower is a lot more vague to feel than improved throttle response, at least for me it was. I don't think I could feel a few more ponies, but I'm pretty darn sure I can feel a more immediate response to gas pedal input.

I think of it more like a CDV mod compared to a lightweight clutch plate. They both do similar things, but one could be construed as a placebo, which we know it isn't.

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by lni

More horsepower is a lot more vague to feel than improved throttle response, at least for me it was. I don't think I could feel a few more ponies, but I'm pretty darn sure I can feel a more immediate response to gas pedal input.

I second that comment. I stated this a couple of comments ago, the "possible" increase in HP to me is secondary to the improved throttle response when I push on the gas pedal. Now to people's points earlier, yes most likely I won't be able to tell a 1,2,5,10 Hp gain but I can sure tell when the throttle is responding better since I'm driving it everyday and I know how my car had responded before Sunday.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

What Im trying to tell you is very simple.
If you can't feel 15hp/10tq gain from full intake replacement, how can you feel 10hp/5tq gain from charcoal filter removal?
If you can't even feel better throttle response from free flow intake system, how can you feel slight difference in throttle response from removed filter?

I repeatedly mentioned that I cannot feel an increase in a mediocre (or at least minimal) increase in hp/torque. However, I can feel better throttle response. I could in all the aftermarket intake equipped BMW's I've owned over the years as well (I had aftermarket intakes in 4 of the 6 previous bimmers I've owned). I highly doubt any intake in a modern lower displacement normally aspirated BMW will get you the gains you are talking about (15hp/10tq). You will likely get a minor bump, but the main draw is to get the fuel burning quicker, by getting more air at it sooner. BMW wouldn't be making 335's if they could get 15hp/10tq by redesigning the intake.

By the way.. I just checked the original linked thread. It seems that those people are reporting the exact same thing... better throttle response, and a slight throatier sound. In fact, most are calling it a much better throttle response (or even raving about the difference). So.. you, who have not done this, are a better judge than the dozens who have?

(edited) I wanted to add that there is a bit throatier sound. My wife just followed me down to drop off my car for serivice (BT and mp3 not working), and asked if I had done a mod to the car, since it seemed a bit louder. Those wives... jeesh.. can't slip anything by them.

[Oz]

I just did it and got extra 50HP!!! No need to trade my 330i for a 335! A DIY coming up soon...

[poldim]

Originally Posted by Oz

I just did it and got extra 50HP!!! No need to trade my 330i for a 335! A DIY coming up soon...

AWESOME!!!!!

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by lni

I repeatedly mentioned that I cannot feel an increase in a mediocre (or at least minimal) increase in hp/torque. However, I can feel better throttle response. I could in all the aftermarket intake equipped BMW's I've owned over the years as well (I had aftermarket intakes in 4 of the 6 previous bimmers I've owned). I highly doubt any intake in a modern lower displacement normally aspirated BMW will get you the gains you are talking about (15hp/10tq). You will likely get a minor bump, but the main draw is to get the fuel burning quicker, by getting more air at it sooner. BMW wouldn't be making 335's if they could get 15hp/10tq by redesigning the intake.

By the way.. I just checked the original linked thread. It seems that those people are reporting the exact same thing... better throttle response, and a slight throatier sound. In fact, most are calling it a much better throttle response (or even raving about the difference). So.. you, who have not done this, are a better judge than the dozens who have?

(edited) I wanted to add that there is a bit throatier sound. My wife just followed me down to drop off my car for serivice (BT and mp3 not working), and asked if I had done a mod to the car, since it seemed a bit louder. Those wives... jeesh.. can't slip anything by them.

Agreed. As for that high horsepower gains from intake, I wasn't referring to bmw.

Since you guys are claiming such "better throttle response" and better sound, maybe I should give it a try and see how it really feels.
Oh im going to be real pissed if nothing changes and all this is just a hype.

[Tierfreund]

Originally Posted by lux.sh

Agreed. As for that high horsepower gains from intake, I wasn't referring to bmw.

Since you guys are claiming such "better throttle response" and better sound, maybe I should give it a try and see how it really feels.
Oh im going to be real pissed if nothing changes and all this is just a hype.

Don´t worry Lux, you´re going to feel better throttle response after you´ve put in the effort. You would even if the mod was detremental to the engines performance. The human mind just works that way. Use it to your advantage!

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by Tierfreund

Don´t worry Lux, you´re going to feel better throttle response after you´ve put in the effort. You would even if the mod was detremental to the engines performance. The human mind just works that way. Use it to your advantage!

lol. exactly tierfreund. Human beings are "Fake".

Either way, sounds like a good weekend project just for fun.
we'll see if it really does what everyone claims..

[shragon]

Originally Posted by ben1364

Can anyone tell me why BMW would spend the money on the charcoal filter in the intake if it serves no useful purpose?

it's there because CARB (california air resources board) requires it to be there. it's purpose is to absorb hydrocarbons while the motor is off. as stated here and on the other thread, the charcoal filter is not found on newer bmw's outside the US.

[dude007]

Removed air filter, but this charcoal filter is glued! no way to put it back in case of trouble with dealers. Damn, now I'm not sure anymore...

[lux.sh]

Originally Posted by dude007

Removed air filter, but this charcoal filter is glued! no way to put it back in case of trouble with dealers. Damn, now I'm not sure anymore...

is it something if you take it out carefully, that you can glue it back?

[dude007]

I don't think you can. It's like a paper glued to the plastic body. Well, need to make a decision - reap it or leave it along?

[poldim]

Originally Posted by dude007

I don't think you can. It's like a paper glued to the plastic body. Well, need to make a decision - reap it or leave it along?

That sucks. Can anyone take pics of the thing?

[ben1364]

Next thing I expect to hear from you "automotive engineers" is complaints about the odor of gasoline when the car is parked. <g>

[poldim]

Originally Posted by ben1364

Next thing I expect to hear from you "automotive engineers" is complaints about the odor of gasoline when the car is parked. <g>

We dont have a problem with removing it. We have a problem with potentially putting it back and not making it noticible if we need warranty work done.

[Scarabeo]

Well, I removed mine in about 20 minutes - there is no way to do this without totally destroying the filter. I used a sharp knife to trim the remnants - you could do it with a dremel tool also. As for increased performance, hard to tell.....maybe the computer needs some driving time to make the necessary adjustments...and on a lighter note, just after I got my e90 out of the body shop (10,000 worth of damage to front end - I was hit head on at about 20 MPH), some woman backed right into me in a parking lot, crumpling by brand new right fender....I was fit to be tied!

[porscheneer]

Originally Posted by poldim

We dont have a problem with removing it. We have a problem with potentially putting it back and not making it noticible if we need warranty work done.

Faaak! Im doing this mod right now and there is no way to remove this filter without ripping it apart. It seems to have been press fit or glue fit between heat injected / molded parts. Here is the part number # 1371 7542018-04 and there is another number 109912 13 DE.
My parts counter is closed today at the stealer

Can someone get a price on this part ? I figure if we know how much this part is than we can rip out the filter, and if warr work needs to be done in that area we can swap another one in. This may not work if they discontinue the part number or up Rev. Just an idea!

However the VDO meter which Im assuming is the MAF, is shown in the pictures and if that needs to be be replaced ( which happened to me on the porsche at $412 I did labour myself ) they will definately be in there. The good thing is if you have an OBDII instrument ( or go to autozone $0) you could probably see this comming after you investigate a CEL . The code that will pop will probably refer to lean or rich air fuel mixture in the cylinder banks.

I posted a few days ago about how the fuse card sucks and they just have pictures and no explanation of what the fuse is what. Its just a cash cow for the stealer. Times will be tuff after warr. up my compadres.
My point is if BMW is so tight with there fuses schematic I doubt they will let us know what OBD / CEL codes for the e90 are.

btw to take it out and put it back in was a total of 20 mins so I put it back in for now think about a feasible solution.

Anyway wife is yelpin about car parts on the granite in the kitchen, It got a little chilly so I brought the intake housing in to work on it.

I wanted to post all pics but I took close ups which was alot of megs so i attached a zip folder.

let me know what you think
L8ts !!

[ACZakka325i]

Im really interested in this, and since ive already paid for my car in full im less concerned about putting it back in as much as i am interested in the actual performance enhancement. I know there isnt much of a HP gain, but better throttle response would be nice.

my problem is that the accounts of people that have already done this seem like they really want to believe that there is a gain. Is it fact or is it wishful thinking!?