[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

...In most instances though, spending $24 just once to find out that you could safely extend your OCI, even just a few thousand miles each time, would more than pay for itself over the life of the vehicle. At the end of the day, dumping good oil early isn't exactly financially or environmentally responsible either.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

If you use Rotella, you need to be changing at 5K-7.5K miles, as it's a low-saps oil similar to LL-04, not LL-01. Note that T6 is an ACEA E9 oil designed for heavy trucks (Kenworth, etc.) big diesel engines.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

And I just have to say, after the millions and millions of miles that the collective members of this Forum have driven, with all the varied oil changing schemes used, I've not read one post from a member who has lost and engine due to inadequate lubrication, why we are STILL discussing oil 9 years into the E9X chassis life is really just stupid. Listen, just change the oil with a LL-01 spec oil and a good OE or OEM filter using BMWs recommendations or better, and you be just fine. It's really just not that hard to comprehend.

Bravo!

Originally Posted by bvanlieu

No one can argue from a fiscal POV: if you are concerned about wear that much you are better of spending the $ on an earlier OC.

Lot of good and informed opinions here. I'd like to toss in two thoughts:
1) I mentioned 5K-7.5K intervals with Rotella. I want to be sure that readers understand that the Rotella in question is a low-saps oil, designed for diesel engines running ultra-low-sulfur (15 ppm in US/CA) fuel, and because of that is not designed for the low-sulfur (200 ppm in US/CA) gasoline engines. It will wear out (use up TBN) too fast for extended intervals, especially in gasoline engines.
2) There has been substantial research on engine wear; specifically there has been quite a bit of research saying that (with synthetic oils designed for extended intervals) SHORTER INTERVALS INCREASE TOTAL WEAR. Check this post and it's references: http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/101...re-Engine-Wear and you can Google around for other references. In short, a 5K interval with LL-01 may well result in MORE engine wear than longer (15K BMW recommendations) intervals.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

If you use Rotella, you need to be changing at 5K-7.5K miles, as it's a low-saps oil similar to LL-04, not LL-01. Note that T6 is an ACEA E9 oil designed for heavy trucks (Kenworth, etc.) big diesel engines.

5K - 7.5K miles oil change is what most N54 enthusiast are suppost to do.....I forgot this thread is in the general section and not turbo charged section

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by ThatRWD

Where are these tests people speak of ?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...3&postcount=29



To find more reports of N54 owners using Rotella T6 Google is yourbest friend Rotella N54 Blackstone

All this LL-01 advocacy please present a report from Blackstone showing better numbers than the Rotella report on the N54. I can only speak for Turbo charge BMWs not NA BMWs

The brain washing LL-01 LL-01 LL-01 sounds like a damn zombie programing. Produce your proof.......

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Lot of good and informed opinions here. I'd like to toss in two thoughts:
1) I mentioned 5K-7.5K intervals with Rotella. I want to be sure that readers understand that the Rotella in question is a low-saps oil, designed for diesel engines running ultra-low-sulfur (15 ppm in US/CA) fuel, and because of that is not designed for the low-sulfur (200 ppm in US/CA) gasoline engines. It will wear out (use up TBN) too fast for extended intervals, especially in gasoline engines.
2) There has been substantial research on engine wear; specifically there has been quite a bit of research saying that (with synthetic oils designed for extended intervals) SHORTER INTERVALS INCREASE TOTAL WEAR. Check this post and it's references: http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/101...re-Engine-Wear and you can Google around for other references. In short, a 5K interval with LL-01 may well result in MORE engine wear than longer (15K BMW recommendations) intervals.

See above report from Blackstone.......

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

...
All this LL-01 advocacy please present a report from Blackstone showing better numbers than the Rotella report on the N54. I can only speak for Turbo charge BMWs not NA BMWs

The brain washing LL-01 LL-01 LL-01 sounds like a damn zombie programing. Produce your proof.......

See above report from Blackstone.......

The only BS reports I can show you are for my M57; they (and other diesel guys' reports on LL-04 oils) indicate that the nominal 13k mile diesel engine interval is at the far end of the usable life of those oils, and that 10K is safer. That is in a ultra-low-sulfur environment in a turbo motor.

However, nothing you posted falsifies my assertion that care should be used with a LL-04 (or ACEA E9) oil in a gasoline engine. I presume that the Rotella oil with rating ACEA E9 is most similar to the ACEA A3/B4/C3 standard that BMW LL-04 is based on.

The LL-04 oils start with TBN around 7 while LL-01 (ACEA A3/B4) starts with 10. It's perfectly true that LL-04 oils will be used up sooner in a gasoline engine on low-sulfur gasoline than a diesel running ultra-low-sulfur. Nothing you say can change that fact. If Rotella E9 started with TBN 7 and you're now at 1.9, you've used ~2/7. But if you were using an LL-01 oil I might posit that you would be at TBN ~4.9 at the same interval, and have more margin and be able to go much longer.

What TBN does Rotella start with? It's your oil; I'm guessing you know it.
One other point: BS doesn't report TAN. Without that it's impossible to know the affect that the higher sulfur content is affecting the oil...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Since your engine is N/A w/ port fuel injection, I'd tend to agree with you to an extent; especially since that motor has been around forever. Once you add turbos and DI to the mix, it's a whole different ball game; this is especially true when trying to extend OCIs.

In most instances though, spending $24 just once to find out that you could safely extend your OCI, even just a few thousand miles each time, would more than pay for itself over the life of the vehicle. At the end of the day, dumping good oil early isn't exactly financially or environmentally responsible either.

Also, if BMW "knew better" then they wouldn't keep bouncing around on their OCI recommendations, for essentially the same motor, either...their recommendations don't apply to everyone. That's like running an OTS tune, or even the stock tune, and just trusting that it will work in EVERY situation without data logging. That just doesn't work.

The whole point of using an oil analysis is to understand the trend of how the oil is performing. One data point fails to do this. Oil longevity also depends on environmental conditions, fuel type, engine age, and driving use, so one time oil analysis doesn't help understand how the oil is performing. The argument most people on this Forum try to defend by using Blackstone reports is that BMW's OCIs are too long rather than too short. Which means, if you don't trust BMWs testing, then forgo the expense of a $25 lab report and just change the oil early - my argument .

[RU_FASTR]

While I was still covered by "free" maintenance I would change it once between dealer services using german Castrol. Since then it's had a steady diet of M1 0w40 every 7,500. I'm about to roll over 150k and all is well so far. Blackstone tells me I could go longer but my thinking is why bother. You're not going to get rich by saving a few bucks on oil and filters. Though an engine failure, unlikely as it is, might make you poor in a hurry.

[GoodtoGo]

While Rotella is marketed as a diesel engine oil, it exceeds all of the required specifications for BMW LL-01 5W-30, including use in gasoline engines and extended oil drain intervals. You have to read through these publicly available standards to understand what applications the oil would work for along with user's test reports and not just look at marketing information.

Also, a low SAPs (sulfated ash, phosphorus-sulfur) oil typically referrers to the contents of the oil and not the fuel, so fuel sulfur content is not relevant. This is specified because SPAs contaminants could damage certain catalysts and diesel exhaust particulate filters. Fuel sulfur content is relevant for diesel applications as it will damage diesel catalysts. A low SAPs oil is theretofore fine to use with gasoline catalytic converter systems, however low SAPs oils usually have a lower starting TBN number. Even so, Rotella is rated for extended drain intervals.



See below:

BMW LL-01 5W-30 meets:
API: SL/CF
ACEA: A3/B3 (longlife, extended drain intervals)

Rotella 5W-40 meets:
API: SM (exceeds SL/CF, safe for cat conv., approved for gasoline engines)
API: CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF, SM, SL, SJ, SH
ACEA: E9 (longlife, extended drain intervals for diesel engines)

Oh, the BS report BuraQ posted is mine.... Thanks!

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Bravo!



Lot of good and informed opinions here. I'd like to toss in two thoughts:
1) I mentioned 5K-7.5K intervals with Rotella. I want to be sure that readers understand that the Rotella in question is a low-saps oil, designed for diesel engines running ultra-low-sulfur (15 ppm in US/CA) fuel, and because of that is not designed for the low-sulfur (200 ppm in US/CA) gasoline engines. It will wear out (use up TBN) too fast for extended intervals, especially in gasoline engines.

[jwzimm]

In case anyone is interested, I got a Blackstone test done on my N55 a little while ago as I was going to buy it off lease and wanted to get an idea of how the engine was doing. I have always followed BMW's OCI's (except for the first change was done at 1200 miles). Here is a link to my report: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ght=blackstone

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The whole point of using an oil analysis is to understand the trend of how the oil is performing. One data point fails to do this. Oil longevity also depends on environmental conditions, fuel type, engine age, and driving use, so one time oil analysis doesn't help understand how the oil is performing. The argument most people on this Forum try to defend by using Blackstone reports is that BMW's OCIs are too long rather than too short. Which means, if you don't trust BMWs testing, then forgo the expense of a $25 lab report and just change the oil early - my argument .

Agreed. Continuous UOAs are obviously more complete when it comes to trending as well as perhaps catching a mechanical issue before something goes boom, but when I wanted to run an oil that was previously untested on the N54 platform (RLI Bio-syn) then, well, you gotta start somewhere By testing it under MY conditions, with MY climate, and MY driving style, etc. for an entire year, that pretty much knocks out 99% of the variables. The only thing left would be mileage, where wear metals tend to decelerate anyway but that's pretty much why testing TBN allows for good indication of available oil life so you can leave a good bit of cushion in there towards the end of a OCI. I wanted to try a new oil out as well in order to see if it had any effect on keeping the back of our valves clean (something you obviously don't have to worry about).

As mentioned though, if I had an N52 under the hood as well and used a decent "synthetic" motor oil, I probably wouldn't give a shit about any of this either

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by GoodtoGo

...Even so, Rotella is rated for extended drain intervals.

See below:
BMW LL-01 5W-30 meets:
API: SL/CF
ACEA: A3/B3 (longlife, extended drain intervals)

Rotella 5W-40 meets:
API: SM (exceeds SL/CF, safe for cat conv., approved for gasoline engines)
API: CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF, SM, SL, SJ, SH
ACEA: E9 (longlife, extended drain intervals for diesel engines)...

I personally don't understand why anyone uses SAE as a standard; it has almost no important information associated with it for real applications...

I will be interested to see which Shell oil gets labelled BMW LL-01 and LL-02, now that they're BMW's oil supplier. Who knows, maybe the T6/E9 will become the basis for LL-04.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

The only BS reports I can show you are for my M57; they (and other diesel guys' reports on LL-04 oils) indicate that the nominal 13k mile diesel engine interval is at the far end of the usable life of those oils, and that 10K is safer. That is in a ultra-low-sulfur environment in a turbo motor.

However, nothing you posted falsifies my assertion that care should be used with a LL-04 (or ACEA E9) oil in a gasoline engine. I presume that the Rotella oil with rating ACEA E9 is most similar to the ACEA A3/B4/C3 standard that BMW LL-04 is based on.

The LL-04 oils start with TBN around 7 while LL-01 (ACEA A3/B4) starts with 10. It's perfectly true that LL-04 oils will be used up sooner in a gasoline engine on low-sulfur gasoline than a diesel running ultra-low-sulfur. Nothing you say can change that fact. If Rotella E9 started with TBN 7 and you're now at 1.9, you've used ~2/7. But if you were using an LL-01 oil I might posit that you would be at TBN ~4.9 at the same interval, and have more margin and be able to go much longer.

What TBN does Rotella start with? It's your oil; I'm guessing you know it.
One other point: BS doesn't report TAN. Without that it's impossible to know the affect that the higher sulfur content is affecting the oil...

Bro I think we settled on an agreement that oil changes between 5k-7k miles is ideal for the Rotella T6 5w-40 on the N54 platform. So going into a dialogue about the science of TBN etc etc is absolutely futile.

We are talking about the N54 platform here for "enthusiasts" whom drive agressively or their cars are tuned aggressively in which sub 9k miles oil changes is a must.

The TBN value for Rotella T6 5w-40 is 10.6 , it also meets the requirement of API SM , which means it can be used in gasoline engines. Data sheet attached..

Meh, I've seen a few pretty decent UOA results on even BMW fill @ ~7500 miles intervals. Just like dyno numbers though, these figures are only really relative to THAT particular user.

T6 is fantastic oil though and a true bargain to boot. I use that stuff in many cars, bikes, etc. and the results are always fantastic.

[Imbue]

Havoline 5W30 FULL Synthetic

[mweisdorfer]

I use AMSOIL 5w-40 euro blend with high sap.

Use bosch long life filters.

[Jnat]

T6 in all my turbo cars with the following observations, very clean motor internals and almost no oil usage under normal driving or duress! I do agree with changing it every 5-7k.

[kaede]

I use Motul 300V 5w-40. Will be changing to Motul 8100 or Mobil 1 0w-40 later because i can no longer afford boutique luxurious oil like 300V xD No more race boy for me anymore lol

[freon480]

Ive been using valvoline synpower 5w30 changing every 5k max. At 209k I use bmw/mann filters only.

[BG139]

fuchs oil!