[marv85]

Originally Posted by preezzy

So how would I measure the content of the gas!? Besides I personally know the owner of that gas station as I'm Indian and Indian guy who is close to me owns that gas station with the only e85 available in my area so he told me sometimes its 75% at the least but that's very rare he said so mostly its pretty accurate and going off what he said as a brother to me I doubt he would lie
Especially when you consider he's the only e85 in town I doubt he would care less if he would just say that his gas is good to keep me coming to him since I have no other choice anyways so considering all this gas is not an issue!

It's not about lying. It's the source that changes the content seasonally. They guarantee a minimum of 70% around here in Oregon. That content changes with seasons. Summer time you'll have higher ethanol content for sure than winter time for instance

[preezzy]

Well in that case its def close to 85% as I'm in FL where its worst than summer already! Haha

Btw any way I can check the content?

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Thanks for the response, but for clarification for those who are not technical on FMIC data, when you say .1 PSI difference where does that set the PSI reduction for the 5" . I myself want to make sure I am not seeing a typo with what you are posting on the 5"

I apologize, here's what was logged.

OEM Inlet PSI: 16.22
OEM Outlet PSI: 14.69
OEM Delta: 1.53 PSI

VRSF 5" Inlet PSI: 16.69
VRSF 5" Outlet PSI: 15.08
VRSF 5" Delta: 1.61 PSI

Originally Posted by preezzy

So basically if I read the comment correctly the psi reduction of vrsf 5" is 1.4!
Insane how's that any better than stock at 1.5

You're not purchasing an aftermarket intercooler to reduce pressure loss. That's not where the gains are made. There's a compromise between pressure loss and temperature reduction. If you look at a garret intercooler, it has one of the best cooling abilities in the market due to the fact that it's one of the most densely packed intercoolers but it also has the highest pressure loss across the core due to the fact that it's so densely packed.

If you check the pressure loss on the "eBay China core" mentioned earlier, they'll certainly have less pressure loss but they won't cool nearly as well. Too much pressure loss and the compressor has to spin outside it's efficiency range to reach it's boost target and you then start countering the increased cooling effect.

Originally Posted by E90Company

He's indirectly answering you BuraQ. Essentially what he is saying is the 5" VRSF has a sub-par 1.4-1.6psi reduction, which for those who don't know isn't good.

As usual, your special posts require multiple sections to answer due to infinite amount of hate you have on anything with a VRSF logo on it.

ETS/AMS/Helix & Wagner all have the same or more pressure loss across the core in comparison to our 5". Once again, you're clearly talking out of your ass.

Originally Posted by E90Company

He didn't state wether it was worse or better than the crappy OE IC so it's within that range. Either way even if it is 1.4psi that isn't good at all. Bar and plate too compared to OE tube and fin. I believe their cores are based off the eBay China cores.

There's .1 more psi in pressure loss in comparison to the OEM. Yes, we specifically search for "ebay china core" when looking for an intercooler core, you've got us pegged. At least take a look at the internal and external fin pack before making these slanderous statements. We have nothing in common with an "eBay China core".

[Cripple]

subbed...

[mithiral67]

Here are two logs I ran, both on the OTS e30 map with zero changes to the car other than fuel and about 5 days a part. The first is from what I thought was e38 (originally had what I thought was e30, but due to shitting timing, added more “e85” to help with the corrections). As you can see, timing was nerfed down to near zero due to the ecu protecting the engine.

I then realized that what I thought was e85 didn’t have the octane rating is should. I picked a new gas station, pumped 3 gallons into a gas can, took it hope and measured its ethanol content, which came back 79%. I then properly missed an E30 blend. Here is the log after 3-4 pulls. You can see my timing is well above before. I did have some drops, but still a much healthier log.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by preezzy

Well in that case its def close to 85% as I'm in FL where its worst than summer already! Haha

Btw any way I can check the content?

There's two ways, one's inexpensive and tedious and the other is expensive and more convenient

Cheap:

Expensive:

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.shtml

[Joshboody]

reading the OP it sounded like there are 1/4 mile logs pre/post IC... if so, can you clarify which ones exactly. I'd like to see the difference.

[mithiral67]

Heres a guide for measuring E85 and what do with the info.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...5#post13904625

[mithiral67]

Thanks for the video Tiago, just stole it for my guide.

[preezzy]

Thanks for the help guys ill have the content measured by next Friday for the next track day!

But why are we talking about e85 content when the topic was psi reduction??

[mithiral67]

Ha, because your logs looked like mine did. And I have no comment on FMICs, I run a helix which just works all the time.

[E90Company]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

As usual, your special posts require multiple sections to answer due to infinite amount of hate you have on anything with a VRSF logo on it.

ETS/AMS/Helix & Wagner all have the same or more pressure loss across the core in comparison to our 5". Once again, you're clearly talking out of your ass.



There's .1 more psi in pressure loss in comparison to the OEM. Yes, we specifically search for "ebay china core" when looking for an intercooler core, you've got us pegged. At least take a look at the internal and external fin pack before making these slanderous statements. We have nothing in common with an "eBay China core".

Thiago, stop kidding yourself. You're straight lying to the people on this forum because you know you can take advantage of many uneducated minds. What I say is fact, I don't lie. I have no beef with you, I can honestly care less. When a vendor tries to lie to the community to benefit business, hurting enthusiasts in the process something needs to be addressed.

First off you are incorrect about Helix and some of the other brands having the same or more pressure drop than your VRSF 5" core, which by the way does use a core manufactured in China. Helix has a larger frontal area, more internal volume, cools better/more efficiently, and has a pressure drop of .5psi. Less than OEM, and alot less than the VRSF 5". This is manufacture spec, not something I made up or lied about. Let me reiterate: VRSF 5"=1.6psi pressure drop. Helix=.5psi pressure drop and cools better due to larger surface area and internal volume. This is fact.

For those of you that don't know what pressure drop is, think about it this way. If you are seeing 18.5 psi in your logs (boost read pre-throttle body), your turbos are actually producing 20psi pre-FMIC and are working harder to achieve boost target.

Please explain to me how having a pressure drop worse than stock is beneficial? IAT control is a major part of the reason people purchase an intercooler (With the VRSF I saw terrible 180 degree IAT's at the end of his 1/4 runs on Friday, personally), but you CANNOT ignore pressure prop. This is why it's essential to have a well engineered core. You shouldn't cheap out in this department whatsoever.

Furthermore, before you go out and tell another enthusiast he is talking out of his "ass", or accuse of slander, take a look at who is actually the one doing it. I speak purely fact as I have stated above and have no reason to lie to fellow enthusiasts. I'm not in it for money. You are lying to people on this forum with the statements you just made in order to maximize profit, and that isn't moral or right coming from a vendor many trust(ed) or respect. Have a good day.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by preezzy

Thanks for the help guys ill have the content measured by next Friday for the next track day!

But why are we talking about e85 content when the topic was psi reduction??

Based on your IAT's on the track per PSI and the PSI reduction on their 5" FMIC, the "core heat exchange" is not doing a good job as the air has been slowed down significantly with a 1.6 psi reduction and still not being able to cool the air down effectively. So technically your doing worse than you were with the stock IC

An upgraded FMIC should have less than 1.0 psi reduction. You want something in between .4 - .8 PSI reduction

[JMARS]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Based on your IAT's on the track per PSI and the PSI reduction on their 5" FMIC, the "core heat exchange" is not doing a good job as the air has been slowed down significantly with a 1.6 psi reduction and still not being able to cool the air down effectively. So technically your doing worse than you were with the stock IC

An upgraded FMIC should have less than 1.0 psi reduction. You want something in between .4 - .8 PSI reduction

BuraQ - Where did you get this .4-.8 figures from?
Different platforms?

[Joshboody]

E90company, I don't believe your info is accurate. Helix doesn't have pressure drop info AFAIK... and if this is independent testing, I'd be very interested in seeing it. There will always be trade offs in pressure drop and thermal efficiency.

If the OP has pre/post IC logs, this would be a good start in evaluating the IC. Thought he did, but logs aren't labeled well and don't want to search all of them.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Based on your IAT's on the track per PSI and the PSI reduction on their 5" FMIC, the "core heat exchange" is not doing a good job as the air has been slowed down significantly with a 1.6 psi reduction and still not being able to cool the air down effectively. So technically your doing worse than you were with the stock IC

An upgraded FMIC should have less than 1.0 psi reduction. You want something in between .4 - .8 PSI reduction

You're not going to find an intercooler that cools better than stock with .4-.8 pressure loss across the core unless you're dramatically changing the dimensions of the intercooler. That low of a pressure drop would indicate that they're running a straight through fin pack about half the width of the existing system.

I've seen what vendors claim their pressure loss is and I've seen actual test results that clearly refute their claims. I also have no intention of turning this into a vendor war, but the OP's second intercooler option has the same pressure loss as our 5".

Either way, I'll personally be doing a comparison of the OP's intercooler vs an off the shelf 5" vs our 7" as well as our 7" with revised fin pack. If anyone in the area has a Helix/AMS/ETS or Wagner intercooler that they wouldn't mind letting me borrow I'd be more than happy to test them.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

E90company, I don't believe your info is accurate. Helix doesn't have pressure drop info AFAIK... and if this is independent testing, I'd be very interested in seeing it. There will always be trade offs in pressure drop and thermal efficiency.

If the OP has pre/post IC logs, this would be a good start in evaluating the IC. Thought he did, but logs aren't labeled well and don't want to search all of them.

There's just no way to decrease IAT's without creating resistance from the increased surface area inside the core. The trade off will always be there. Anyone who claims otherwise is mis-educated on the subject.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by JMARS

BuraQ - Where did you get this .4-.8 figures from?
Different platforms?

The majority of all the FMIC's on the market for our platform are all ranged between .4 - .8 psi reduction .

They all have something in common they all have less than 1.0 psi reduction for a bar plate FMIC

Here is an article on intercoolers in general http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

E90company, I don't believe your info is accurate. Helix doesn't have pressure drop info AFAIK... and if this is independent testing, I'd be very interested in seeing it. There will always be trade offs in pressure drop and thermal efficiency.

If the OP has pre/post IC logs, this would be a good start in evaluating the IC. Thought he did, but logs aren't labeled well and don't want to search all of them.

Last I checked directly with Helix their intercooler pressure loss is 0.5 psi reduction with a 92% volume increase over stock from what I gathered

[E90Company]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

E90company, I don't believe your info is accurate. Helix doesn't have pressure drop info AFAIK... and if this is independent testing, I'd be very interested in seeing it. There will always be trade offs in pressure drop and thermal efficiency.

If the OP has pre/post IC logs, this would be a good start in evaluating the IC. Thought he did, but logs aren't labeled well and don't want to search all of them.

JoshBoody, on Helix's main site it states the pressure drop of their intercooler which is .5psi . Specs come from the manufacture as I stated previously.

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Last I checked directly with Helix their intercooler pressure loss is 0.5 psi reduction with a 92% volume increase over stock from what I gathered

Correct.

[Sick335]

Originally Posted by AK 335i

south Florida FTMFW

Wesside!

[preezzy]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

E90company, I don't believe your info is accurate. Helix doesn't have pressure drop info AFAIK... and if this is independent testing, I'd be very interested in seeing it. There will always be trade offs in pressure drop and thermal efficiency.

If the OP has pre/post IC logs, this would be a good start in evaluating the IC. Thought he did, but logs aren't labeled well and don't want to search all of them.

(as i stated all logs were done with same map which is COBB OTS E30 MAP).
OKAY to clarify for you the zip file labeled cobb logs are down with STOCK FMIC
Track name zip file is logs at the drag strip and one or two logs on highway while coming back from track with VRSF FMIC
e30 map street zip file are all logs from only one gear pull showing that iats are better in one gear than multiple gear pulls with VRSF FMIC

hope this helps