[everlast]

Hello everyone,

I have a E91 with Hifi and bluetooth. I've got a Technic harness enroute.

I don't like the center staging *at all*. It feels like I only hear the driver's side speaker when in the driver's seat. I'm afraid that my original plan of just upgrading to the XD600/6 will only leave me wishing I had a center channel to correct the stage.

I was just about to pull the trigger on a JBL MS-8 when I read about the bluetooth echo issue. I understand that the remote can be changed via firmware upgrade to allow you to press a button to disable processing which will correct the echo problem, but I don't really want to even have the display mounted once installed let alone press a button on a remote mounted non-OEM dodad every time I take a call.

I think (haven't verified thought) that the bluetooth audio only comes through the fronts, so I considered using the rear outputs from the HU and running a single speaker outside the MS-8, but then read that the rear outputs on the HU aren't full spectrum. Maybe the MS-8 can correct for that? It is probably a 12db slope, right? Anyone tried?

If that worked, I would run a connection to a speaker in the TCU speaker location. I did the bluetooth retrofit with only the MULF so that area is empty.

With the firmware fix of processing turned off, does it bypass all Ms-8 correction, or only Logic 7 processing? Not that either is really a solution, I suppose.

Seems like we're so close to a perfect solution, but details get in the way.

Edit: BTW, does anyone here have an E91 with the Logic7? I believe it comes with eletrostatic wave speakers in the roof behind the sunroof, which is mondo cool lol.

Edit #2: correction, they're "electro-dynamic planar loudspeakers". Still cool.

[ctuna]

I only have bluetooth phone since its and older model but it does not effect the phone operation or volume in any way.
I thought there was a fix for the ms-8 echo somewhere.
I believe the parking sensors is the only thing routed through the stereo.
(not sure on this for all model years or models)
My alarms seem to come from a speaker somewhere under the steering
wheel.
Just the amp and upgraded speakers are a major improvement if you like
traditional stereo.

Also try reading this for system details
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323

[bmw325i]

Get both I can't comment on the bluetooth issue since I dont have bluetooth and if I did I probably wouldn't use it anyways.

[everlast]

'06 might have been different. Gong and BT both are through the stereo in my '08.

I've read all the stickies and fully understand everything that's posted.. just not what I
asked about, mainly:

Can the MS-8 correct the curve that is given to the rear speaker output HU output?

I would love to have a MS-8 and a XD700/5. Three channels for the front, 1 for the underseats and used the MS-8 amp for the rears.

I also have an issue with a loud gong. A software update corrected the "fixed volume gong" problem that many '08 E91 had (it was on purpose, supposedly) but the gong is still MONDO loud when the volume is up high.

The BT echo would be a real killer for me. BT is legally required in Ontario for talking on a phone in the car, and I just finished the retro-fit. It would be a shame to not be able to use it.

Here's an alternative question then:

Will upgrading to a XD600/6 or XD700/5 + HIGH QUALITY front speakers correct the imaging problem I have with the audio now? If so, that might be the simplest solution.

I never really hear too much feedback about imaging on most of the front driver speaker replacements, more about power and price.

[ctuna]

The Hi Fi already has flat outputs for both rear and front,
as any eq is done at the amp.
Only the ampless base system suffers from tweaked head unit
eq.
What do you mean by imaging .
All I know is the morel dotechs and jehnerts deliver the most accurate
sound I have ever heard, its indeed three dimensional compared to what was
in it . Its a true audiophile stereo system its not surround sound though. It's better than my home system which has Klipsch speakers .
Since most people use an amp with the ms-8 you can try it with just
and amp first and add a ms-8 if isn't enough.
The problem with the existing Hi Fi system was the cheap speakers and the
lack of a good amp to drive them . What most people complain about is the distortion and harsh high and no bass when turning it up . Also there is a big hole in the midbass. Changing the amp and speakers can solve most of the problem.

[everlast]

Thanks for the feedback ctuna.

I don't see how just adding an amp to a signal will make it anything but louder.. I work in the music trade and have a studio monitor setup with JBL monitors that I have EQ'd flat with a slight bass hump.. The difference, even at low volume from flat to EQ'd is very dramatic. I was hoping to get that effect from the MS-8, then add an amp if the volume wasn't great enough.

The problem I have with imaging in my E91 is how the bulk of the sound seems to come from the speaker you're closest to, so me, as the driver, only seems to hear the driver's side front speaker.

Fading to 2 back helps this problem at the expense of being able to identify the stereo image. It turns to a mushy mix of compromise lol.

A center channel *can* prevent this localization from happening while maintaining the stereo image, but I don't know if it works that well in a car.

Are you sure about the full output from front AND rear? If so, I will confirm that the bluetooth only comes through the front and I'll come up with a way to play the front while bypassing the MS-8. IMO that would be an ideal solution.

Since the MS-8 has 8 channels and I'd only use 6, anyone know if I can use the remaining channels unprocessed?

I'm gonna play with the fader / bluetooth tomorrow and see what the deal is with the HU. If the BT audio comes through the front and not rear, and is unaffected by the fader when faded all the way back, then I could use the HU to fade back all the way, an MS-8 to process the rear signal sending the 3 front channels to an amp, but use an isolated mixer to mix the front (BT) and Ms-8 processed signals. That would solve the problem 100%.

[ctuna]

Its about replacing crappy with quality components
The crappy amp creates all kinds of distortion that the crappy
speaker can't handle and there is no real crossover set up for
the door even though they are component speakers. Just
replacing the amp alone is a huge improvement thought the speakers
may not last.

The weakness is in the lack of clean power , lack of head room and generally
low quality speakers.

The bose approach is to use crappy speakers and equalize them to death
to try an compensate for the poor quality components. For me that seems like the wrong approach.

The the output of the professional head unit in the
Hi Fi Mode as many have reported here is pretty adequate.
Also the back speakers don't do that much for the overall sound
all lot of the pro's on here will tell you its a waste of money to
change them.

Read this one
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352586

BMW stereo types
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352586
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1266451970
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1260829447
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343673
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138949
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...2&d=1260829447
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780605
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1209780865
http://www.musicarnw.com/page-2/
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...4&d=1278871872

[everlast]

Great, two sets of outputs!! Alright, I'll try the fader trick with BT tomorrow and report back. This could be great.

I have a line (sort of) on a XD700/5. Coupled with an MS-8 and nice fronts / center I'd be set.

[ctuna]

Although the current under seats will sound better with more power actually
producing some bass , replacing them can make a big difference.

[everlast]

Yeah, underseats were always in the cards to be changed for sure.

So, I confirmed today that music can be faded back all the way, with the bluetooth communication coming through the front only and music through the back only. So as long as the rear has full output, here's the plan:

Speaker upgrades
Upgrade fronts (to what?) and add a nice coaxial center channel. Upgrade the underseats, leave the rear's alone.

Amps
A MS-8 would get its audio source from the rear HU output. I would run in L7 mode, using it's own amp power for the rears. Send the front 3 channels and the underseats to a XD700/5 leaving 1 channel unused.

BT Audio
I have two options for this:
1. Place a speaker in the lower console where the backup speaker for the TCU would go, run ONE output from the front HU to the spare channel on the XD700/5.
2. Mix the front HU outputs with the L/R MS-8 outputs at line level so the XD700/5 would amplify both. It could be as simple as 2 y-cables, or a isolation line level mixer so the output stages of the HU and MS-8 don't see any signal, though I doubt it would harm either.

Option 2 is my preferred method.

Thoughts? Can anyone else confirm the rear outputs from the HiFi HU are full range? I need to be treble sure. (Pun!)

[bmw325i]

Didn't JBL fix the Bluetooth echo already.

Also yes the rear outputs are full range if you have hifi.

[mob17]

You cant go wrong with Morel components (Dotechs or Hybrids etc), a Morel Integra Ovation centre, and Jehnert woofers. They will make you smile everyday.

[everlast]

Originally Posted by bmw325i

Didn't JBL fix the Bluetooth echo already.

The fix is to press a button on the controls of the MS-8 every time you take a call. It disables the Logic7 processing. Unacceptable for me... I want factory like operation.

[everlast]

Well, I scored a lightly used, fully tested XD700/5 for $320. Woot. Just awaiting my harness and I'll start with just the amp upgrade, then hopefully can find some deals on speakers.

Still looking for a deal on a MS-8. I've seen people say they got factory refurbs for $400. Lucky them. Want.

[mob17]

What speakers are you looking to get?

[everlast]

Harness arrived. I'm going to borrow an analyzer once I get it wired in so I can play with EQ / cutoffs with all factory speakers and see what improvement I get.

Speakers were likely to be Morels, but a house just came up for sale that will likely pause any car upgrades.