[mrh335]

I am really frustrated.

I am doing the Zaino process. Already completed the wash with dawn, clay bar, and polishing with Menzerna IP with an Orange CCS pad from Lake Country and a Porter Cable 7424 on speeds 5 and 6. The results removed all the big swirls, but left behind little marks from the cutting pad. I also found the Menzerna IP difficult to use because it would begin dusting right away. Not sure if I wasn't using enough, wrong speed, wrong pressure, etc. Help on this will help me next time.

My real problem is that I have moved on to the Zaino ZPC to go back and clean up the paint to remove the minor swirls and hazing from the first polish. I am using the ZPC with the Porter Cable and a Whitle CCS pad from Lake Country on speeds 4 and 4.5. This seems to remove minor marks, but not all marks left from the previous polishing. Also, I am not sure how hard or long to work the ZPC. No matter what I do, I am left with residue or haze and I can't get it off of my car. No matter how hard I rub, it really won't come off. I spray with Z6 and rub off, but still doesn't come completely off. Plus all this hard rubbing just leaves behind more scratches from my microfiber towels.

How the heck do I get the ZPC off of my car? I just have a dullish finish right now and I am going nuts.

Might I add this is a jet black 335i sedan, 3 months old.

Also, I have noticed that I have little dots all in my paint. They look like dots of polish or bubbles. Somehow I have put these in the paint. What are they, what did I do to get them there, how do I get rid of them? Could they be dried pieces of polish that got trapped in the pad or left behind from a neighboring section.

please help......

[vase330]

Dude I feel you. Question: Has it rained recently? Did the water sprinkler get you? My car was spotless till it rained. I had the spots you are describing. Got them off but it was a b1tch getting those off. Then left my car parked for two weeks while I was away, and Sprinkler would get it frequently like daily. the spots were now back with a vengeance. Couldn't get them off for the life of me, so I just got Maguires polish and threw on 2 coats over them screw it, if you look really close you still see them.
I think they are caused by acid rain or hard water. The Sprinkler water was in contact with grass before hitting my car, who knows what fertilizer they used on the sod. Bottomline I couldn't get them off so I just washed then polished over them.

[ejazbmw]

zaino z-pc has not oils or fillers so its going to leave a lot on hazing of the car and a dull look they tell you that on there website you need to use a wax or sealant to restore the shine back z6 alone won't cut it. I usually do z-pc then z-aio and then finally z-2 to get a real wet/shine look. hope this helps you out and you shouldn't put to much pressure while buffing the residue off with a MF

[normtrum]

I don't know a lot about zaino products, but you need to use a finishing polish next, whatever zaino product is in the finishing polish category. This is very common when using a cutting polish. Same thing happened to me with my griot's medium cutting polish. I was freaked out. I then went to my finishing polish, and the haze was 100% gone.

It's really nothing to worry about. Believe me, the finishing polish will take care of it.

[samoe93]

NOTE: Zaino Z-PC Fusion IS ABRASIVE and should only be used when necessary. Z-PC Fusion is not intended for frequent use.

Step 5: When done, apply either: Zaino ZFX enabled Z-2 PRO, Z-3, or Z-5 to the surface for a long lasting, great looking shine that will lock-in the results of your work with Zaino Z-PC Fusion.

[From the Zaino Website]

I would say just follow the directions... Z-6 isn't mentioned. Go to the polish, as one of the posters above (and Zaino) suggested.

[ejazbmw]

to the previous post just to let you guys know don't use z-pc as a usual product its meant to be used maybe every 5-6months would be my guess. I'm only saying this because i know some people who use it every time they wash there car.

[mrh335]

To be clear, the dots in the paint look like grit, but it's not. It is smooth and I used a clay bar.

As for the ZPC, it is a fine polish meant to be used before the final sealant. I don't have the AIO as it wasn't mentioned directly in the directions in the detailing forum. Maybe I need to use this to remove the haze, I am not sure. Heavy buffing with the micro fiber is definitely not the answer. The new scratches negate all the hard work.

Regarding just covering it up with the Z2-pro, won't this still leave the haze behind and lock it in behind the sealant or will it actually try to make it go away?

Would alcohol help to cut this as well?

How many minutes do you typically work the ZPC with the Porter Cable at speed 4-4.5? I go in a back and forth motion about 2 inches per second, then up and down at same speed and then go over it all again about 4 inches per second. I finish most of a door panel in less than 5 minutes. I am not sure if I am working too long or not. What should the ZPC look like when it has been worked in?

I still need help here!!!!

[DPritchett]

You made me curious, so I looked up the instructions from the Zaino website.
I see your 335i is black, so maybe applying Z2 is the prescription that will fix things.

FAQs: I used Z-PC and now the paint looks hazy. Is this normal?
Dark color surfaces, especially black, will sometimes leave you with a slightly hazy or milky surface after using Z-PC. Z-PC Fusion does not have any fillers or oils. To make the surface crystal clear, apply your ZFX enabled Z2 or Z5 to make this milky look go away, leaving a perfect, crisp, clear, BLACK and scratch free finish.

[Detailed Image]

Originally Posted by DPritchett

FAQs: I used Z-PC and now the paint looks hazy. Is this normal?
Dark color surfaces, especially black, will sometimes leave you with a slightly hazy or milky surface after using Z-PC. Z-PC Fusion does not have any fillers or oils. To make the surface crystal clear, apply your ZFX enabled Z2 or Z5 to make this milky look go away, leaving a perfect, crisp, clear, BLACK and scratch free finish.

A hazy finish is typically caused from an abrasive polish not finishing down correctly. If Zaino is recommending to use a sealant (Z-2) or a sealant with fillers (Z-5) to remove the haze, then that doesn't say much about Z-PC as a finishing polish. More or less that means hide the problem rather than fix the problem. Without properly fixing it, the haze will always be there.

A quality finishing polish as normtrum mentioned should finish down to a perfect finish when used correctly. I say finish the paint with one of the Menzerna finishing polishes, preferably PO106FF or Final Polish II to remove any haze left behind. Menzerna is argued to have some of the best polishes on the market.

I personally think that the dots are dusting from the Intensive Polish, which I've experienced many times before. I follow up with an Isopropyl Alcohol wipe down to ensure product remains are completely removed.

Hope this helps.

George

[espo]

Yea I've had the same problem with ZPC on my car... Always seemed to leave a haze when I was done. Really didn't like that. I've used SSR2.5 the most. Takes out almost all of the big scratches and polishes down to a perfect finish (with a polishing pad).

Then I go and apply a couple of coats of Z5pro and 1 Z2pro.. looks perfect.

[mrh335]

I called Zaino today and spoke with Sal. The words of wisdom I received were not to mix any other products with Zaino during the detail process. He commented that Menzerna makes a great product, but it has lubricating oils in it and all the Zaino products are water based. Therefore, the remaining oil on the car from the Menzerna was mixing badly with the water based Zaino ZPC and causing a nasty hazy film that just wouldn't go away. He suggested I do what I can to remove and go back to square one. I did this by using a white LC CCS pad with Menzerna IP with the goal being to knock off any oils or residue there and leave only the residue from the Menzerna. He suggested I wash it down with Dawn which I did twice and dried.

One thing he did mention for future reference is to use the ZPC for the more abrasive polish and then the AIO "All In One" for the finishing polish. At this point he said it would be over kill, but next year I will go this route most likely.

I have attached some pictures after drying. The finish now looks just dull which is what I expect from the Menzerna IP. I hope that this dullness is still not residue from the ZPC/Menzerna mixture. I didn't screw up the whole car, just this side and will compare this side to the passenger side which hasn't had ZPC on it yet. I plan tomorrow to go over with the ZPC to get the nice polish.

Of the three pictures, the first one shows the dullness/haze on the drivers door. This is not the same haze I was speaking about in the initial post, this is much better and more uniform. It doesn't look like haze/oil.

There is another picture that is close up. In this picture you can see tiny scratches left from the polishing pad and you can also see the grit that I was talking about. This grit CANNOT be removed with clay bar. Therefore it is not "stuck" in the paint. Does anyone know what it is or where it came from? It has come from my polishing somehow as I didn't notice it before. It might also be left over from the dealership's crappy detailing and I just didn't notice it until now. How do I get rid of it?

The last picture is a blurry shot of the grit and marks from the pad. Should I be concerned with these small scratches? Will the ZPC with a white LC pad make this go away?

The last attachment is from Sal regarding application of the ZPC with instructions based on machine, pads, and general info on how to mix it to avoid dusting.

The text of the attachment is below from Sal.

How to use Zaino Z-PC

Z-PC is a versatile polish that can be used as a SMR or finishing polish. It works well on all paint, glass, plastic, and chrome and can be used by hand or machine.
I use ZP-C most often on maintained vehicles that have swirl mark build up from tunnel washes, or improper washing-drying techniques. ZP-C is not a compound and will not level-remove severe defects.

Machine Use
D/A: Porter Cable:
Set your speed dial to “5” using slow overlapping passes.

Rotary
1200-1400 for SMR and 800-1000 RPM for finishing using slow overlapping passes.

Pads
I prefer Lake Country 6-7.5” pads (High-Gloss, VC, or CCS)
Orange: Medium Cut
Green German : Medium Cut/Polish
White: Polishing
Black/Red: Finishing

Z-PC application
Eliminate Dusting: I mix ~ ¼ oz of Z6 per 4oz of ZP-C and prime my pad with one trigger of Z6.

Product Amount: After you polish a section your pad should be “primed”
with Z-PC. From this point on you only need 2-3 pea sized drops on your pads (per
section) as you continue to polish the surface? To put this in perspective 1 bottle of Z-PC lasts me as long as a 16oz bottle of Menzerna FPII.

By Hand:
Using the Zaino applicator, apply 2 pea sized drops to the pad and work the product in a 1 x 1’ area using straight line strokes (up-down, back-forth, and diagonal), using medium pressure.

“Break Down” the Polish: Work Z-PC into your surface in 2 x 2’ sections until the polish becomes translucent (i.e. you will see a light film on your paint). If your towel is dragging or if the paint doesn’t wipe off with very little effort, then Z-PC is likely not broken down and still “wet” on your surface.

Removal:
Wipe your surface clean with a MF or cotton towel. If dry residue is present after your wipe down Z6 or a damp MF or Cotton towel can be used to remove the product.

Thank You,
Sal Zaino
(732)833-8800
http://www.zainostore.com


Please pass along what you can.

[gdnyc]

Menzerna IP is an abrasive polish. How bad was your paint if the car is only 3 months old? You should have used Menzerna Final polish instead.
Make you sure you spritz the pad with water or a QD so that the polish doesn't dry out too quick.

[mrh335]

The paint was relatively screwed up. I did a European Delivery and the car showed up with some new scratches on it. The dealership agreed to do a full exterior detail to clean everything up. I thought it sounded like a great idea. I had the car returned to me with swirl marks and deep scratches everywhere. I tried using a fine paint cleaner and swirl remover from P21 and Mequiars at the time. Nothing worked. Even the Menzerna IP took a while to get all the swirls out and the deep scratches took about 30 minutes each to get out and there were 3 on the driver side alone.

When I went back over things last night with the Menzerna, I kept the white pad spritzed with water and applied a 6" bead to the pad per the directions to work a 2'x2' area. I had virtually no dusting. Some areas were more difficult to wipe down becuase it wasn't an area I was directly working, but overall it seemed to work. I just need to make sure now that the haze remaining on the car is from the polishing and not oils left after polishing and washing.

I still want to know what the dots in my paint area. I glass smooth finish filled with dots is not preferred.

[bimmernotbeamer]

Go take a look at some other cars next time your at your dealer. I have a feeling you will see the same dots. It could just be the way the paint is. My 10 year old paint has dots as well. They became more noticeable after I first detailed it (no swirls to distract the eyes).

In terms of the pictures you posted, the first one is from after your second application of IP, true or false? If true, then you're on the right track. That's about how things should look. Do a dawn wash after IP'ing. That should remove the Menzerna oils. From there you can begin the ZPC process. I'd recommend that you apply ZPC with a finishing pad (not polishing pad). It sounds like your paint is relatively soft, enough so that even a slightly stiff pad is putting marks in the finish.

Now, are the second and third pictures taken at the same time as the first (after your second go around with IP), or were they from the first session? Reason I ask is that the second picture especially looks as though the IP didn't remove all the swirls. You have more than just a haze left in that picture.

[mrh335]

I will take a look at the other cars, but when I look at the skirt on my car where I have not used the IP, I haven't been able to find the dots yet. Maybe I just haven't had the right light or looked close enough. I will give it a go thought.

You are right, all the pictures are of the driver side after the second application of IP. These pictures are also after I have washed the car with dawn (two washes back to back actually).

I have orange, white, and black pads from Lake Country. It sounds like you recommend using the black pad with the ZPC to remove these fine scratches.

The last two pictures are after IPing for the second time. The streaks I believe are from drying the car and are left from that. I used a waffle weave towel and was very very gentle and didn't rub off the water, just patted it down and pulled it across the car.

I will look at other cars for the dots, if I don't see them on new cars, then I don't want them on mine. One way or another, I don't like them, but if it is in the paint from the factory, then they are there to stay.

Thanks for your help. One last question for now, how do I know when I have removed all the oil from the Menzerna?? I ask because I washed the car very thoroughly without applying force during washing. I want to make sure the oils are off because if I touch the car with my fingers it leaves smudges. I am not sure if the smudge is from the oil on my skin or on the car. Any good way to tell if the car is ready for ZPC?

Originally Posted by DavidN

Go take a look at some other cars next time your at your dealer. I have a feeling you will see the same dots. It could just be the way the paint is. My 10 year old paint has dots as well. They became more noticeable after I first detailed it (no swirls to distract the eyes).

In terms of the pictures you posted, the first one is from after your second application of IP, true or false? If true, then you're on the right track. That's about how things should look. Do a dawn wash after IP'ing. That should remove the Menzerna oils. From there you can begin the ZPC process. I'd recommend that you apply ZPC with a finishing pad (not polishing pad). It sounds like your paint is relatively soft, enough so that even a slightly stiff pad is putting marks in the finish.

Now, are the second and third pictures taken at the same time as the first (after your second go around with IP), or were they from the first session? Reason I ask is that the second picture especially looks as though the IP didn't remove all the swirls. You have more than just a haze left in that picture.

[UncleWede]

The fingerprints are from the oil on your finger.

Probably a good test is to spritz some plain water on a portion. If it beads up you still have SOMETHING left on the surface. Two runs of Dawn should remove major portions of oils, but I've never used IP so I couldn't say. Don't use too many more Dawn washings, you'll begin to get other problems. . .

[Detailed Image]

Using isopropyl alcohol diluted with water as a quick detailer removes anything left behind from polishes. This is why professionals do this to reveal the true clear coat.

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by gdnyc

Menzerna IP is an abrasive polish. How bad was your paint if the car is only 3 months old? You should have used Menzerna Final polish instead.
Make you sure you spritz the pad with water or a QD so that the polish doesn't dry out too quick.

This is right on if you would have started in the way that gdnyc described. The rule of thumb is you always start with the least abrasive polish. If that doesn't work, then work your way down to the next abrasive polish, and so on until it removes the discrepencies. Then, if needed, you need to work your way back in the other direction.....more abrasive to less abrasive (fine polish). This will remove the "haze" that typically occurrs.

In my case, I went with the Mezerna IP. It removed the swrils that were on my car, but I did not get the haze affect. I was able to skip the "fine polish", and go right to my sealant.

The first time I did my car however, I did in fact have to work my way back, and used my finish polish as the last step before my sealant.

[bimmernotbeamer]

Originally Posted by hoehne

I will take a look at the other cars, but when I look at the skirt on my car where I have not used the IP, I haven't been able to find the dots yet. Maybe I just haven't had the right light or looked close enough. I will give it a go thought.

You are right, all the pictures are of the driver side after the second application of IP. These pictures are also after I have washed the car with dawn (two washes back to back actually).

I have orange, white, and black pads from Lake Country. It sounds like you recommend using the black pad with the ZPC to remove these fine scratches.

The last two pictures are after IPing for the second time. The streaks I believe are from drying the car and are left from that. I used a waffle weave towel and was very very gentle and didn't rub off the water, just patted it down and pulled it across the car.

I will look at other cars for the dots, if I don't see them on new cars, then I don't want them on mine. One way or another, I don't like them, but if it is in the paint from the factory, then they are there to stay.

Thanks for your help. One last question for now, how do I know when I have removed all the oil from the Menzerna?? I ask because I washed the car very thoroughly without applying force during washing. I want to make sure the oils are off because if I touch the car with my fingers it leaves smudges. I am not sure if the smudge is from the oil on my skin or on the car. Any good way to tell if the car is ready for ZPC?

As said in PM, take a look at some other cars to see if the dots are visible. I have a feeling it is just a characteristic of the painting process. Polishing with the polishes and pads you used should not create any type of specs like that. That is completely unheard of to me.

Definitely use the black pad with ZPC. Try a section and see how it works.

You did a good job drying. Blotting is the way to go.

If the water is still beading on your paint after you dawn wash, then there is still menzerna oil there. However, seeing that you have done two dawn washes, I'm guessing that you have bare paint now.

[mrh335]

As I mentioned in posts above, I washed the car thoroughly with Dawn twice back to back. The was was sitting in large puddles on flat surfaces and large sheets on the vertical surfaces. The first picture above was taken after drying the car.

I proceeded tonight to try and use the ZPC again. I started with a black Lake Country CCS pad with my Porter Cable on speed 5 per Sal Zaino's directions. I also pre-misted the pad with the Z6. I applied the ZPC and dusting was not an issue. After working back and forth and up and down on the driver's door I stopped to wipe it down. The results were what I had been trying to fix all along. Streaks of ZPC product on the door. No amount of buffing with MF or with Z6 and MF would remove.

I tried applying again and again using different movement rates, speeds 4 and 6, white pad, etc. The result never really improved. They got worse when I moved too fast.

The series of pictures below is what the door looked like after an hour of messing around. I even wiped it down with alcohol. You can see the streaks. I then started over and took pictures along the way. After working the ZPC for only 45 seconds or so, it wasn't white on the car any more, but not truly clear either. I took the picture and then proceeded to work it more for another minute or two. The next picture shows that it really hasn't changed. I wiped it down and still have streaks. The fourth picture is a straight on view of the third. The reflections looks good in the picture, in person, those surfaces showing the reflection have only been gone over with Menzerna IP and have many tiny scratches and are dull. This picture makes it look great, in person it sucks.

Some of my better luck tonight was when I used the black pad and moved about 1 inch every 4 seconds and went very slow at speed 5. The result is that most of the ZPC is actually removed by the PC during this process, however when the direction was changed or passes overlap, a streak remained and the paint wasn't totally clear, it still has some haze from the first polishing step with IP.

Please review the pictures and let me know if I am working too much, too little, need different technique, or something. I have also tried no pressure, light pressure, and moderate pressure. The light pressure produced the worst results leaving remnants of product all over the surface that couldn't be wiped off.

Help!!

[John 070]

Sorry to hear about your trouble....let us know if you figure it out. Maybe take it to a pro for peace of mind? good luck.

[turbojet3]

I already lived this nightmare on my Jet Black.
Scrap the Zaino.
Get the mezerna 106ff or the Blackfire SRC (same stuff smaller bottle)
white pad then black pad.
Add a coat of Glaze then Carnuba.
Your Jet Black needs the oil.