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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N55 Turbo Engine Tuning and Exhaust Modifications - 335i Tuning > RB Turbo's N55 Turbo Upgrade, rounding the bases



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      01-03-2014, 10:22 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iuhutch View Post
You just made my day! This is epic news and the price point is much closer to my range. Here's to 2014

I'm in MN, not too far from you. Would be interested in being a tester.
We are going to only make one unit initially. This will be going to BMS to test as they have direct experience with the N55. Next week should have most of the groundwork performed and be well underway on this hybrid, so far by the things we are seeing it is going to be particularly easy the route we are going (combined with some ingenuity/creativity)- all of which ultimately means a very reasonable cost.
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      01-03-2014, 10:38 AM   #156
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Nice!
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      01-03-2014, 11:16 AM   #157
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Yeah, sounds good. And seems like I was proven wrong which is also good
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      01-03-2014, 11:47 AM   #158
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Give me 450whp and boost not falling off hard until redline and I am sold
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      01-03-2014, 11:53 AM   #159
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If we can get 450WHP we will have essentially GTR hp/weight ratio. They dyno out around 470whp stock for the 2013's and they weigh 3800+ lbs.
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      01-03-2014, 01:40 PM   #160
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Really? I was expecting 500; like the VTT.
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      01-03-2014, 02:24 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
If we can get 450WHP we will have essentially GTR hp/weight ratio. They dyno out around 470whp stock for the 2013's and they weigh 3800+ lbs.
But a GT-R can deploy all 470 of those ponies. In the rain.
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      01-03-2014, 04:19 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by mashimarho View Post
Really? I was expecting 500; like the VTT.
The VTT has only put down 468 so far. I agree it has some more in it, but I think it is a stretch to say it will hit 500 as it stands right now. I think 480 is very doable and it may hit 500, but it has a ways to go. The VTT is also running larger wheels than the RB, but RB has said the housings are maxed before the VTT wheels are. There is potential for it to match the VTT output, but even if it "onlyl" hits 450whp I would probably still do it as long as the VTT doesn't get to like 550whp or something crazy.
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      01-03-2014, 05:56 PM   #163
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That VTT number was not on pump fuel. I'm really only interested in what these turbo upgrades can put out on actual gasoline that I can readily buy. Forget all this race gas/ meth crap.
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      01-03-2014, 07:21 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by CombatNinja View Post
But a GT-R can deploy all 470 of those ponies. In the rain.
I can too, I have xdrive.
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      01-03-2014, 08:19 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
I can too, I have xdrive.
And you think the xdrive is able to withstand the power?
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      01-03-2014, 08:21 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by 335iFFM View Post
And you think the xdrive is able to withstand the power?
It already has, couple guys on N54 with RB turbos running xdrive with no failures.

I'm already launching the hell out of it, ran a 12.1 on the strip with my N55 cutting 1.67 60ft FBO with 50% e85, which is well over 400lbft of torque. I know a N54 with xdrive on these forums that has launched it over 100 times on the drag strip running in the 11's and no problems at all - he's making just as much torque as an aftermarket N55 upgrade will.

Launching any AWD car presents risks (plenty of GTR drivetrains blew up in the early days) but Xdrive has proved pretty robust so far.
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      01-04-2014, 05:25 PM   #167
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Can't wait to hear more about the progress of this kit as it's developed. If a reliable tune can be had on pump gas, I'll be in line to put it on my xDrive.
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      01-11-2014, 12:04 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JETmn View Post
The VTT has only put down 468 so far. I agree it has some more in it, but I think it is a stretch to say it will hit 500 as it stands right now. I think 480 is very doable and it may hit 500, but it has a ways to go. The VTT is also running larger wheels than the RB, but RB has said the housings are maxed before the VTT wheels are. There is potential for it to match the VTT output, but even if it "onlyl" hits 450whp I would probably still do it as long as the VTT doesn't get to like 550whp or something crazy.
We don't know if its being capped by housing yet. I'm sure that is something Tony researched on and I dont feel that is the limiting factor as of late. Being capped at 19psi with the 2.5bar sesor is our biggest gap at the moment. In theory, the VTT should EASILY hold 25/26psi, and if/when jb4 can control boost over 20psi, this thing should make a min another ~50whp...

We wont know until its tried...i'm trying to instigate jeff to install it and try it, i'm optimistic that the n55 internals can hold 550-600 and beyond
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      01-16-2014, 09:17 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iuhutch View Post
We don't know if its being capped by housing yet. I'm sure that is something Tony researched on and I dont feel that is the limiting factor as of late. Being capped at 19psi with the 2.5bar sesor is our biggest gap at the moment. In theory, the VTT should EASILY hold 25/26psi, and if/when jb4 can control boost over 20psi, this thing should make a min another ~50whp...

We wont know until its tried...i'm trying to instigate jeff to install it and try it, i'm optimistic that the n55 internals can hold 550-600 and beyond
terry setup the 3.5 bar map sensor and displayed that the turbo will not hold boost at 25/26 easily at all... Go to his site and look at the results, it was extensively tested with the higher boost and saw no gains... the PWM is maxed meaning the housing is maxed... its still good power but these assumptions are all in correct. Let data talk after you look for that data before you capitalize EASILY when its already been proven to not be easy or even possible to come close to that yet.
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      01-16-2014, 09:20 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatNinja View Post
That VTT number was not on pump fuel. I'm really only interested in what these turbo upgrades can put out on actual gasoline that I can readily buy. Forget all this race gas/ meth crap.
These housings are so small the turbine is so small... you will never see any WOW type gains on pump gas ever. Meth is very simple to take advantage of with a 5 gallon trunk tank and a piggy back or more expensive controller...

No one will ever forget race gas / meth , or e85. Its whats needed to utilize these upgrades.
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      01-16-2014, 09:28 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckD05
Quote:
Originally Posted by iuhutch View Post
We don't know if its being capped by housing yet. I'm sure that is something Tony researched on and I dont feel that is the limiting factor as of late. Being capped at 19psi with the 2.5bar sesor is our biggest gap at the moment. In theory, the VTT should EASILY hold 25/26psi, and if/when jb4 can control boost over 20psi, this thing should make a min another ~50whp...

We wont know until its tried...i'm trying to instigate jeff to install it and try it, i'm optimistic that the n55 internals can hold 550-600 and beyond
terry setup the 3.5 bar map sensor and displayed that the turbo will not hold boost at 25/26 easily at all... Go to his site and look at the results, it was extensively tested with the higher boost and saw no gains... the PWM is maxed meaning the housing is maxed... its still good power but these assumptions are all in correct. Let data talk after you look for that data before you capitalize EASILY when its already been proven to not be easy or even possible to come close to that yet.
Whered you see this..
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      01-16-2014, 09:48 AM   #172
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Wheel performance is measured from a specific native housing that is no longer in place with hybrid turbos, which is something that some tend to omit from their respective turbo performance expectations. This means that when you build a hybrid turbo you have to consider the housings you are working with and accept that they really do have a detrimental affect on the wheels performance. Based on the results mentioned above, which were per my expectations or perhaps slightly above, the N55 turbo will likely be tapped out around 475rwhp regardless of wheels employed due to turbine housing limitations.

The key then as the consumer is to realize/know what gains you will get for the $$$ and decide if it is worth it or not. The gains are not poor, but for the $$$ spent for what is being offered today it is very clear the bang for the buck could be MUCH better with a full upgrade (as we are working on). As we thought right out of the gate, the only way a hybrid upgrade makes sense for the N55 therefore is if it is able to be kept fairly inexpensive (which we now believe we can due to the sourcing of some key components).

So back on that topic here is a little update- the N55 turbine housing fixture is complete. We expect to start some machining on the turbine housing next week. As mentioned before we have a couple compressor wheel decisions to make, but feel going slightly smaller will be beneficial in the long run. If found to be incorrect we can increase sizing as needed, but feel the turbine to compressor match is best as we will be doing it initially.

Thanks,
Rob
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      01-16-2014, 09:56 AM   #173
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I hate to say this, but I think the bigger problem is that nobody except 2011 cars will be able to run this. I just don't know the market is there for you to recoup your costs. I saw over on N54Tech that terry said the backend flash is mandatory for upgraded turbos on N55, and the fact of the matter is that Cobb essentially came out and said they are giving up. The exact quote was, "I can't even see any light at the end of the tunnel on this project right now."

I would be thrilled to spend $2xxx and get 475whp, but that option just won't even be available to me thanks to lack of tuning.
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      01-16-2014, 10:08 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
I hate to say this, but I think the bigger problem is that nobody except 2011 cars will be able to run this. I just don't know the market is there for you to recoup your costs. I saw over on N54Tech that terry said the backend flash is mandatory for upgraded turbos on N55, and the fact of the matter is that Cobb essentially came out and said they are giving up. The exact quote was, "I can't even see any light at the end of the tunnel on this project right now."

I would be thrilled to spend $2xxx and get 475whp, but that option just won't even be available to me thanks to lack of tuning.
Well that would be a bummer if nothing comes to light with the tuning beyond 2011. But due to lack of cores with the N55 I think it will be a limited market regardless. Either way we are going to proceed, think it will be good for the eligible consumers to have a choice to make which will only help them in the long run. We really would like to see a very affordable solution for the N55 guys who want stealth, low cost, and have the tuning support.

Rob
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      01-16-2014, 10:26 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
I hate to say this, but I think the bigger problem is that nobody except 2011 cars will be able to run this. I just don't know the market is there for you to recoup your costs. I saw over on N54Tech that terry said the backend flash is mandatory for upgraded turbos on N55, and the fact of the matter is that Cobb essentially came out and said they are giving up. The exact quote was, "I can't even see any light at the end of the tunnel on this project right now."

I would be thrilled to spend $2xxx and get 475whp, but that option just won't even be available to me thanks to lack of tuning.
Where there is a will, there is a way. Anything is possible its just a matter of someone willing to put time and effort into 2012/2013 E9X models.
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      01-16-2014, 10:27 AM   #176
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Where there is a will, there is a way. Anything is possible its just a matter of someone willing to put time and effort into 2012/2013 E9X models.
Yes, but Cobb is not.

So who?
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