[535desire]

Originally Posted by SoCali E90

dude diesel is like an average of like $5.30 a gallon here in cali. who in their right mind would go for this? even if it is better gas mileage the price of it will become basically the same thing as a normal gasoline car.

you really should drive a diesel before you make up your mind about this. Although I've never driven a BMW diesel, I can tell you that the difference between smaller cars is quite noticable, and I can only imagine how much more so in the twin-turbo 3 liter.

as said elsewhere in this thread, the mpg estimates for the BMW diesel are very conservative (compared to the EU numbers). Another thing that is helpful in the analysis is to calculate miles per dollar between diesel and gas, using real world numbers for both.

[335er]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

As an E92 335D driver ... it just confirms that I can run a car with more torque than an M3 or M5, effortless pace and comparable straight line speed to a 335i (that's from real drivers' experience and feedback of both cars in the UK). I can have all that, but still have a nice little bonus that it costs less than a 328i to run.

It seems that most, not all, Americans are unable to see the 335D as an alternative performance package, but rather see the "D" badge and break immediately into arithmetic to work out fuel savings. Which do exist.

If you want a high-revving experience go buy a 335i - you'll love it, and nobody could fault you.

However .... if you enjoy a mountain of addictive, creamy torque (just ask all those 335i drivers who appreciate that), equal real world performance and much better mpg you'll soon have the choice of a 335D. Choice is good.

D.

There are a few reasons that I broke down the figures:

1) You are right; Americans tend to get a calculator out to see if diesel is worth it. I did this in part out of my own curiosity and in part to give people hard numbers, rather than assertions based on the price of diesel alone;

2) I have heard that there will be a price premium for the 335d, and, setting aside the performance issues, I was curious to know how much it would cost compared to a 335i, if the straight line performance was close to an apples-to-apples comparison, other than the number of revs hit;

3) The 335d comes in automatic only, and I'm a committed manual driver; I wanted to see how the numbers stacked up to potentially persuade me to buy an automatic.

[idyll]

Originally Posted by 335er

Ok, I tried to figure out what the annual savings would be, if any, among the different 3 series options for 2009. Feel free to comment on the numbers. The fuel prices are from MarylandFuelPrices.com, using my home city. I also estimated 15,000 highway miles a year for driving (as it would be easier for me to calculate that way; I understand that is not necessarily representative of everyone's individual commute). The 0-60 times are based on BMWUSA.com, plus the 6.2 seconds for 0-62 noted on the first page of this thread.

Price of premium: $4.31
Price of diesel: $4.99

Miles driven per year: 15,000

328i highway mpg, estimated 0-60: 28, 6.3 (manual), 6.9 (automatic)
335i highway mpg : 26, 5.4 (manual), 5.6 (automatic)
335d highway mpg (est): 33, 6.2 (automatic only)

328i total annual gallons consumed (15,000/28): 536
335i total annual gallons consumed (15,000/26): 577
335d total annual gallons consumed (15,000/33): 455

328i total annual fuel cost (536x$4.31): $2,308.93
335i total annual fuel cost (577x$4.31): $2,486.54
335d total annual fuel cost (455 x $4.99): $2,268.18

So, total savings (under the facts assumed here) for the 335d is $40.75, compared to the 328i, and $218.36, compared to the 335i. That surprised me, as I had been a big proponent of the 335d, even if it is coming in automatic-only guise. But now with diesel prices at 68¢ per gallon more than premium, the annual fuel cost differential is pretty small. That's a change since the last time I tried this analysis (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=171).

My 328i gets 33 mpg highway. I bet the 335d will also get more than 33 mph highway though.

And the fuel savings are sort of negated by the 335d's higher price vs the 328i/335i. At least for a couple of years.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by voltron1011

BTW, what's BMW's stance on bio-diesel?

Filler cap states ''No Bio-diesel''.

Shame the US spec one is down on power. A cracking car.

[dxb335d]

Highway you can get 40+mpg cruising at 90mph..

[McLuVan]

that's a shit load of tq

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Highway you can get 40+mpg cruising at 90mph..

+1
its all about foot control...

[Inzane]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

If we are talking front bumper those are for the NEW front parking sensors which are going to finally make it to the US!

Sidenote: Why would people need a FRONT parking sensor? For the mentally "challenged"?

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by Inzane

Sidenote: Why would people need a FRONT parking sensor? For the mentally "challenged"?

Why do people need rear parking sensors in a 3 series?

[Dascamel]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

Why do people need rear parking sensors in a 3 series?

+1?

[IDreamofBimmers]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

Why do people need rear parking sensors in a 3 series?

why not? it's a cool tool to have

[Lassaxi]

Why do people need a 3 series at all?

[idyll]

What's life?

[mwahlert]

keep in mind "small" desiel engines generally return better than epa estimated mileage..... read a bit about actual mileage returned from vw 1.9tdi's vs epa estimates..

the problem is the 335d will likely cost MORE than a 335i.... i doubt bmw is going to offer any incentive to get the diesel ball rolling....

[calleballe]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

Why do people need rear parking sensors in a 3 series?

Ehh, if you park daily in NYC or other major city, you'll love this. Instead of having valet park guys scratching your bumpers, you keep car somewhat ok.

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by calleballe

Ehh, if you park daily in NYC or other major city, you'll love this. Instead of having valet park guys scratching your bumpers, you keep car somewhat ok.

It was a rhetorical question.

[ksfrogman]

Originally Posted by ///AFRO

Why so much torque..?

...because it's a diesel. Longer stroke, sturdier block, higher compression.

[Insider]

Originally Posted by ///AFRO

Why so much torque..?

Because the turbo's are pressurizing the engine with 26PSI of boost. Give it 8.5PSI of boost like the 335i, and your looking at less torque than the 335i. The diesel needs its 26psi of boost to make its 265HP, otherwise it would be a gutless wonder like diesels of the past.

[Year's_End]

Why does the 335d only come in auto? That torque would make heel-and-toeing so much easier.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by 335er

Ok, I tried to figure out what the annual savings would be, if any, among the different 3 series options for 2009. Feel free to comment on the numbers. The fuel prices are from MarylandFuelPrices.com, using my home city. I also estimated 15,000 highway miles a year for driving (as it would be easier for me to calculate that way; I understand that is not necessarily representative of everyone's individual commute). The 0-60 times are based on BMWUSA.com, plus the 6.2 seconds for 0-62 noted on the first page of this thread.

Price of premium: $4.31
Price of diesel: $4.99

Miles driven per year: 15,000

328i highway mpg, estimated 0-60: 28, 6.3 (manual), 6.9 (automatic)
335i highway mpg : 26, 5.4 (manual), 5.6 (automatic)
335d highway mpg (est): 33, 6.2 (automatic only)

328i total annual gallons consumed (15,000/28): 536
335i total annual gallons consumed (15,000/26): 577
335d total annual gallons consumed (15,000/33): 455

328i total annual fuel cost (536x$4.31): $2,308.93
335i total annual fuel cost (577x$4.31): $2,486.54
335d total annual fuel cost (455 x $4.99): $2,268.18

So, total savings (under the facts assumed here) for the 335d is $40.75, compared to the 328i, and $218.36, compared to the 335i. That surprised me, as I had been a big proponent of the 335d, even if it is coming in automatic-only guise. But now with diesel prices at 68¢ per gallon more than premium, the annual fuel cost differential is pretty small. That's a change since the last time I tried this analysis (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=171).

Your results are skewed. Only using highway mileage is not the way to figure savings. You need to use combined mpg numbers.

Also east coast diesel is expensive, so your region wouldn't see the savings others would. Although it would increase using combined mpg.

Using my local(Huntington Beach, CA) prices for Premium and Diesel, same station.

Price of premium: $4.65
Price of diesel: $5.09

Miles driven per year: 15,000

335i combined mpg : 31.0
335d combined mpg : 42.2

335i total annual gallons consumed (15,000/31.0): 484
335d total annual gallons consumed (15,000/42.2): 355

335i total annual fuel cost (484x$4.31): $2,250.60
335d total annual fuel cost (355 x $4.99): $1806.95

Savings: $443.65/year


Basically it comes down to what your local gas and diesel prices are. Didn't use the 328i, I couldn't find a combined mpg number for it.


Not to mention the 335d is nicer to the enviroment.

Co2 Emissions (g/m):

335i - 218

335d - 177


The 335d is ~27% more fuel efficient, 31.0 mpg combined vs. 42.2 mpg combined.

335d Co2 emissions are about ~19% less.

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

Why does the 335d only come in auto? That torque would make heel-and-toeing so much easier.

What does torque have to do with heel toe downshifting?

[335er]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Your results are skewed. Only using highway mileage is not the way to figure savings. You need to use combined mpg numbers.

Also east coast diesel is expensive, so your region wouldn't see the savings others would. Although it would increase using combined mpg.

Using my local(Huntington Beach, CA) prices for Premium and Diesel, same station.

Price of premium: $4.65
Price of diesel: $5.09

Miles driven per year: 15,000

335i combined mpg : 31.0
335d combined mpg : 42.2

335i total annual gallons consumed (15,000/31.0): 484
335d total annual gallons consumed (15,000/42.2): 355

335i total annual fuel cost (484x$4.31): $2,250.60
335d total annual fuel cost (355 x $4.99): $1806.95

Savings: $443.65/year


Basically it comes down to what your local gas and diesel prices are. Didn't use the 328i, I couldn't find a combined mpg number for it.


Not to mention the 335d is nicer to the enviroment.

Co2 Emissions (g/m):

335i - 218

335d - 177


The 335d is ~27% more fuel efficient, 31.0 mpg combined vs. 42.2 mpg combined.

335d Co2 emissions are about ~19% less.

You know, I've been a big 335d and diesel X5 supporter, so I'm interested in your numbers, and was disappointed in what my calculations showed. I do have two questions though: 1) Where did you get the combined numbers? (And what do they represent?) and 2) I was under the impression that diesels did better on the highway than in city driving; is that wrong?