[jpsimon]

Originally Posted by NRG

Flash tuner will modify YOUR particular ECU file based on YOUR mods, ISTA and octane. How's that one size fits all?

unless they are custom tuning your car on a dyno/road, it is "one-size-fits-some."

[NRG]

Originally Posted by jpsimon

unless they are custom tuning your car on a dyno/road, it is "one-size-fits-some."

Why this thread came down to "flash vs Vishnu" is beyond me. Eugen wrote about "piggybacks" and "flashes" in general and AFAIK there are numerous options that's out there and not only the PROcede in terms of piggy's. So far I don't see a single JB user jumping in with defensive attitude. When I wrote "liked to tweak" I was actually referring to JB3 in particular.

[Highflyr]

Originally Posted by NRG

Why this thread came down to "flash vs Vishnu" is beyond me. Eugen wrote about "piggybacks" and "flashes" in general and AFAIK there are numerous options that's out there and not only the PROcede in terms of piggy's. So far I don't see a single JB user jumping in with defensive attitude. When I wrote "liked to tweak" I was actually referring to JB3 in particular.

I wasn't really trying to start a debate just venting my frustration with the Procede.

[jpsimon]

not sure why you quoted that post in particular since I didn't even mention any piggybacks...

I'm not being defensive, I'm stating my opinion in a discussion (usually what these boards are made for). since I have first hand experience with the Vishnu product that's what my comments will be based upon.

Originally Posted by NRG

Why this thread came down to "flash vs Vishnu" is beyond me. Eugen wrote about "piggybacks" and "flashes" in general and AFAIK there are numerous options that's out there and not only the PROcede in terms of piggy's. So far I don't see a single JB user jumping in with defensive attitude. When I wrote "liked to tweak" I was actually referring to JB3 in particular.

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by jpsimon

unless they are custom tuning your car on a dyno/road, it is "one-size-fits-some."

This is the best way to go. 1. Flash, meaning you can change all the parameters, not just intercept a few signals that is all that piggies can do to manage the engine. And 2. Custom tuned to your car.

[LostMarine]

Originally Posted by Highflyr

This reminds me of the Mac vs. Windows comercial.....

Procede v4 is not going to have any of the problems v3 had.....

Procede v3 is not going to have any of the problems v2 had.....

LOL! Exactly!!


I love having a Piggy, but I am going to try the GIAC stage 2 asap. it has great reviews, and then i will try JB3 2.0 just so I know i have tried the best tune's there are and then make my decision on what to keep, based on facts, not some sly marketing B.S.

[JackFlash]

Originally Posted by NRG

Why this thread came down to "flash vs Vishnu" is beyond me. Eugen wrote about "piggybacks" and "flashes" in general and AFAIK there are numerous options that's out there and not only the PROcede in terms of piggy's. So far I don't see a single JB user jumping in with defensive attitude. When I wrote "liked to tweak" I was actually referring to JB3 in particular.

The reason it has become “flash vs Vishnu” is because certain Vishnu users are gay for their tuner and continually seek to win his affection with praise. They pop up here because threads like this seek to unravel their fantasy. They also have a lot of $$$ and emotional baggage tied up in to their system so it’s painful to read others find different options superior.

For the piggyback maker, make no mistake about it, this is a million dollar per year enterprise or more, and a lot is at stake for them if E90POST users decide they prefer flashing options. So expect them to do and say anything they can to keep your business. Even complete redesigns that are over hyped claiming to do the same things the last few redesigns claimed to do.

[LostMarine]

Originally Posted by JackFlash

The reason it has become “flash vs Vishnu” is because certain Vishnu users are gay for their tuner and continually seek to win his affection with praise. They pop up here because threads like this seek to unravel their fantasy. They also have a lot of $$$ and emotional baggage tied up in to their system so it’s painful to read others find different options superior.

For the piggyback maker, make no mistake about it, this is a million dollar per year enterprise or more, and a lot is at stake for them if E90POST users decide they prefer flashing options..

YUp.. Can you Imagine what kind of effect it would have if 1 tuner got banned for something minor when the opposing vendor consistantly breaks the rule.. I bet it wouldn't even matter that much because the positive feedback from "banned" vendor actually making a quality product would sell itself 10x over..

[badass335]

Originally Posted by Highflyr

I'd like to know the root cause of my Cylinder 6 Misfire. As of yesterday I am done with the Procede. It's out of the car and never going back in. While the Procede made great power and made the car feel great for me it wasn't consistant. Some days it ran great other days (usually the days that I pushed the car) limp modes and misfires. After months of being told it was this or that I've come to the conclusion that it has nothing to do with factory parts but rather the piggy back. Even running at default values and below couldn't solve my problem. Put the car to stock and low and behold car runs perfectly through every gear...slow, but consistant. To me that's more important. Sorry Shiv I'm not saying you have a bad product just saying it's not for me.

+1
I've tried pretty much everything and still had misfires with procede. I can honestly say IMHO, it's tune related. I had a new engine 8 months ago, (so no vanos etc could be at fault), I replaced 3 sets of plugs in 8 months (and nothing was wrong witht the plugs at my expense), had 1 coil pack replaced (at my expense), and 1 injector replaced and calibrated (at my expense) and still had issues. Stock I had no issues so I took my car to BMW fully modded so they could see first hand what i was complaining about. They ran their diagnostics and came back saying nothing wrong and implied tune as well. Got a Stett Charge pipe with new forge DV's thinking i was having a boost leak causing the limp modes, but again, not the case.

I went to JB3 and no issues. Had 1 misfire when i swapped over but that was due to not being adapted. (2nd WOT run after install) but after that, almost 5weeks and no issues at all. WOT, high rpms, basic driving, all great!

I still have my procede and will try the V4 once it's out. I actually had my DME version upgraded (Again at my expense) to ensure compatibility with the tunes. I'm going to try the procede V3 with the 10/9 maps again to see if i still have misfires with the new software. This venture so far has cost me just over $1500 with labour + new charge pipe and forge dvs + JB3 tune on top so thats a total of roughly $2000 plus $600 for the JB3 just to diagnose misfires

[badass335]

Originally Posted by jpsimon

just throwing this out there... but I've never had any issues with different software revisions from pre-29.2 to now with the most updated software (and perhaps an even more updated bit of software when I go in for service on monday with all my mods). So I don't really see what the big deal with.

They essentially do have version control, hell in the past when the "tuner codes" were first discovered multiple maps were provided for people it didn't affect, and for those it did. Now that isn't an issue really since being able to clear any potential codes it built in (or if you have other brands of piggybacks you can get a BT cable). Do you think Shiv doesn't test on the VERY latest software versions? If I remember correctly he even swapped out his msd80 for an msd81 to be as up to date as possible!

I think whats being implied is a good idea. The tuners ( ANY ) should basically lay out the bare minimum to run a tune. Like Shiv says, V4 will only work with REV2 Canbus. Thats a great. I think it should go a step further and put a bare minimum DME version as well. I do understand that YOU are not having issues yourself but you can't deny that A LOT of us are having issues. As i mentioned before, i just had my DME upgraded to the latest software and will try the procede this weekend to see if it resolved my issues with an auto.

[badass335]

Originally Posted by Highflyr

Installing new plugs, coils, and injectors isn't free or even that cheap. Still takes up my time plus a Technicians time to program the injectors. And don't go talking about warranty I'll gladly pay a few hundred dollars rather then risk going to jail or loosing my job for defrauding BMW. So glad the updates are free but until they come with plugs coils and injectors I'll take my chances with a "cookie cutter/canned/on-size-fits-all" falsh.

+1

[NRG]

Originally Posted by badass335

+1
I've tried pretty much everything and still had misfires with procede. I can honestly say IMHO, it's tune related. I had a new engine 8 months ago, (so no vanos etc could be at fault), I replaced 3 sets of plugs in 8 months (and nothing was wrong witht the plugs at my expense), had 1 coil pack replaced (at my expense), and 1 injector replaced and calibrated (at my expense) and still had issues. Stock I had no issues so I took my car to BMW fully modded so they could see first hand what i was complaining about. They ran their diagnostics and came back saying nothing wrong and implied tune as well. Got a Stett Charge pipe with new forge DV's thinking i was having a boost leak causing the limp modes, but again, not the case.

I went to JB3 and no issues. Had 1 misfire when i swapped over but that was due to not being adapted. (2nd WOT run after install) but after that, almost 5weeks and no issues at all. WOT, high rpms, basic driving, all great!

I still have my procede and will try the V4 once it's out. I actually had my DME version upgraded (Again at my expense) to ensure compatibility with the tunes. I'm going to try the procede V3 with the 10/9 maps again to see if i still have misfires with the new software. This venture so far has cost me just over $1500 with labour + new charge pipe and forge dvs + JB3 tune on top so thats a total of roughly $2000 plus $600 for the JB3 just to diagnose misfires

Man... You do go great length to give it another chance. I personally gave up after replacing at my own expense coils, plugs, both O2 sensors and progman. Non of the above where faulty! Then I switched back to JB and everything worked peachy. Lately I was actaully thinking of giving it another go, but went with GIAC.

[badass335]

Originally Posted by NRG

Man... You do go great length to give it another chance. I personally gave up after replacing at my own expense coils, plugs, both O2 sensors and progman. Non of the above where faulty! Then I switched back to JB and everything worked peachy. Lately I was actaully thinking of giving it another go, but went with GIAC.

I believe in being fair I wouldn't want to slam anybody due to something wrong on my part. Plus i figure, if i can help out the community with the testing i've done, thats a plus

Thats what a real forum should be about, helping the community, colabortaing for a better goal, not arguing who's penis is bigger!

[e.n335]

No PROcede vs. JB3 discussions please. Lets stay on topic.

Thanks,
Eugen

[e.n335]

BTW, did you know that ECU tuning equipment is available since a few months for far less than $10.000 to be able to develop and deploy ECU flashes for a lot of OBDII cars, including the 335i MSD80 and MSD81 ECU's ? I expect a lot of ECU flashes will be available for the N54, mid term. Make sense for upgraded turbos as well. Now it depends on the tuners, what they will provide.

The distribution chain is a different story. Devices for that are available as well within the costs mentioned.

[Highflyr]

Originally Posted by badass335

I think whats being implied is a good idea. The tuners ( ANY ) should basically lay out the bare minimum to run a tune. Like Shiv says, V4 will only work with REV2 Canbus. Thats a great. I think it should go a step further and put a bare minimum DME version as well. I do understand that YOU are not having issues yourself but you can't deny that A LOT of us are having issues. As i mentioned before, i just had my DME upgraded to the latest software and will try the procede this weekend to see if it resolved my issues with an auto.

I think this is a great way to force customers to upgrade from Rev 1 to Rev 2 at their expense. It's a great business stradegy. Again just like Windows...can't go to a new version without paying for the upgrade.


but wait I thought the upgrades were free....

[mwahlert]

Originally Posted by Highflyr

I think this is a great way to force customers to upgrade Rev 1 to Rev 2 at their expense. It's a great business stradagy. Again just like Windows...can't go to a new version without paying for the upgrade.


but wait I thought the upgrades were free....

there is as far as i am aware a difference between UPGRADES and UPDATES - just like windows.

windows UPDATES are free - but if you want to UPGRADE to the latest OS (ie - rev2) of course there is a fee associated... what, is shiv just supposed to hand out free hardware because he came out with something better?

software updates have been, and will continue to be delivered free of charge...

i am going to call the manufacturer or my pc later and ask if they can send me a new processor because a new one came out.

[Highflyr]

Originally Posted by mwahlert

there is as far as i am aware a difference between UPGRADES and UPDATES - just like windows.

windows UPDATES are free - but if you want to UPGRADE to the latest OS (ie - rev2) of course there is a fee associated... what, is shiv just supposed to hand out free hardware because he came out with something better?

software updates have been, and will continue to be delivered free of charge...

i am going to call the manufacturer or my pc later and ask if they can send me a new processor because a new one came out.

I don't expect new hardware. I expect new updates to work with existing hardware. Maybe even solve a few existing problems.

[undecided]

Originally Posted by jpsimon

unless they are custom tuning your car on a dyno/road, it is "one-size-fits-some."

I don't see the issue.

[dtp3347]

Originally Posted by Highflyr

I think this is a great way to force customers to upgrade Rev 1 to Rev 2 at their expense. It's a great business stradagy. Again just like Windows...can't go to a new version without paying for the upgrade.


but wait I thought the upgrades were free....

That has nothing to do with it. The upgrades are free but this update requires CANbus data which rev 1 doesn't include. You are making it sound like they could have provided it for Rev 1 but don't want to for profit/marketing reasons when it is literally impossible.

[e.n335]

Don't bash PROcede in this thread, thanks. And well, CANbus access requires different hardware as REV II is.

[jpsimon]

Originally Posted by undecided

I don't see the issue.

no issue.. obviously one-size-fit-some has and does work very well with piggybacks and flashes alike!

he made it sound like the flash was not a one-size-fit-all setup... when no matter what it is unless you are truely custom tuned.