[Penn999]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

Make sure you get one with 93 octane. And a good baseline so no one bitches.

I will, Im going to video tape it and get printouts if they have um. I also want to do more pulls than 3, I need to renegotiate that end of the deal..problem is that we might run out of time with sooo many people there.

[Topless///M]

OK, admit it guys...air can't travel at an angle LOL, that's a new one....Does anyone here know what the definition of exposed means. Now you see what I mean...If anything the bottom charge row is blocked and that's it like all others as I said in my first post.

No problem TT, for your credibility and mine.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I will, Im going to video tape it and get printouts if they have um. I also want to do more pulls than 3, I need to renegotiate that end of the deal..problem is that we might run out of time with sooo many people there.

Can't wait to see! And If anyone wants to see the exposed area of hpf go look at my hpf review there are pictures. Anyone can post the pictures here for me, if you want to show them Penn, go for it. I can't because I'm on my iPhone. But it is defiantly exposed.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by Topless///M

OK, admit it guys...air can't travel at an angle LOL, that's a new one.... now you see what I mean...If anything the bottom charge row is blocked and that's it like all others as I said in my first post.

No problem TT, for your credibility and mine.

I didn't say it can't travel at an angle... Show me where I ever said that. I just wanted to see a straight forward picture.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Dude, seriously...do you think Im dumb?? Those pics are from BOGUS angles. It needs to be a straight on shot. I can get in there and show you that the shitty AA, big tom, Stett, and cxracing fmic(which its not) is FULLY exposed to ambient airflow if I take BOGUS camera angles like that. Come on...that did not help prove your point at all.

AGAIN, I COUNT 10 exposed black lines/fins. THATS NOT 14! The first pic shows 10.5 fins showing.

Air will flow through that entire face FYI. BUT if all you are looking at is the area that can be seen directly through the bumper opening how many ambient(black) fins are exposed on your HPF? So we can come to a conclusion how much more of a % of the helix face is exposed.

[Forcefed3]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

Air will flow through that entire face FYI. BUT if all you are looking at is the area that can be seen directly through the bumper opening how many ambient(black) fins are exposed on your HPF? So we can come to a conclusion how much more of a % of the helix face is exposed.

Wait for someone to post both of my pictures from my other thread on here and you can see.

[Topless///M]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

I didn't say it can't travel at an angle... Show me where I ever said that. I just wanted to see a straight forward picture.

I know you didn't say that, didn't say you did. I just skipped ahead and said that cause that's what the forced air is going to do so angles don't matter if the face is exposed.....

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

Wait for someone to post both of my pictures from my other thread on here and you can see.

Penn has stated that 10 ambient rows on the helix are directly exposed well here's a pic from your car showing only 5 ambient rows exposed on the HPF! That ladies and gentlemen is a 100% increase in exposed ambient face on the helix! Now someone with some background in physics please explain how much cooling potential is increased if you double the exposed ambient face? Please let's talk scientifically and leave the manufacturers white paper/marketing tool out of it! What's really funny is I have openly called out HPF, Ams and others for an independent intercooler shootout why no response? Because they know the science( that I have been talking about) and they know the deck is seriously stacked against them in the real world!
So I'll say it again let's do an intercooler shootout!

[Imperator]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

You guys seriously crack me up, an end user has posted in this thread that it is exposed, and there is a pic I took on my car from ground level that shows this through the bumper opening I just need to find it OR if a helix customer can take a front on pic from ground level!

Some of these guys arguing against the Helix (in the name of direct-facing exposed area in the lower bumper area) are looking quite foolish. It might be a surprise to discover that even the areas directly behind the bumper support are still exposed to indirect airflow paths. These areas are pressurized through the front at speed and exposed to a near-equal volume of air at standstill when the radiator fan pulls air through the front bumper.

CP-E uses this "indirect" portion above the lower opening for their FMIC-mounted oil cooler.

[cn555ic]

I would think the comparison of HPF and Helix performance wise is so close, it really comes down to which design you like and which brand name one prefers...I chose HPF!

[kanecvl]

I dont see all 13 rows

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

The upper section of the helix is fully exposed in the bumper opening as it comes to right under the metal bumper!

Here is an n54 with front end on!



Here is our fmic on an n55 with the front clip off, the fmic stops right under the metal bumper on n54 and n55!

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

I would think the comparison of HPF and Helix performance wise is so close, it really comes down to which design you like and which brand name one prefers...I chose HPF!

Simply because of comparable thermal mass(weight of the intercoolers) performance may be close for a gear or 2 but once things start heating up performance will suffer on a shorter thicker intercooler with less exposed ambient face! (the ambient face is what cools the core down and keeps it cool) Taking the same car out and running it back to back 2-4 gear a few times will tell this tale! You want to test an intercooler well we are gonna test an intercooler might as well run a GB concurrent with the testing I feel we may have a mad rush when the TRUTH comes out.

[kanecvl]

what is average install time for both?

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by kanecvl

what is average install time for both?

There is an install video in our GB thread:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468059

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by Topless///M

OK, admit it guys...air can't travel at an angle LOL, that's a new one....Does anyone here know what the definition of exposed means. Now you see what I mean...If anything the bottom charge row is blocked and that's it like all others as I said in my first post.

No problem TT, for your credibility and mine.

Originally Posted by Imperator

Some of these guys arguing against the Helix (in the name of direct-facing exposed area in the lower bumper area) are looking quite foolish. It might be a surprise to discover that even the areas directly behind the bumper support are still exposed to indirect airflow paths. These areas are pressurized through the front at speed and exposed to a near-equal volume of air at standstill when the radiator fan pulls air through the front bumper.

CP-E uses this "indirect" portion above the lower opening for their FMIC-mounted oil cooler.

90 degree turns for ambient are causes a lot of turbulence. If you think that 90 degree turns bring in anywhere near as much as the TRUELY exposed to ambient airflow then you know nothing about physics. Show me a wind tunnel explanation of this...

[Bimmer This]

Originally Posted by kanecvl

what is average install time for both?

Both of them should have close installation time. HPF uses factory pipes and cutting the deflector is a PITA where as the Helix uses silicon hoses and cutting the factory clamp is the PITA part. But, I would say that the Helix would be easier to install.

[Topless///M]

FYI....Here's another pic from the first set showing 11 rows exposed, but there are actually a total of 12 rows fully exposed, can't get it with one shot. Like I said the bottom row or so is the only one blocked. The other ICs may have like 3 or 4 blocked. You guys are tough to convince....

Keep in mind the first three pics are not like 90 degree angles either, maybe 20, 30 degrees at most. This one is actually straight on:

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by Topless///M

FYI....Here's another pic from the first set showing 11 rows exposed, but there are actually a total of 12 rows fully exposed, can't get it with one shot. Like I said the bottom row is the only one blocked. The other ICs may have like 2 or 3 blocked. You guys are tough to convince....

Keep in mind the first three pics are not like 90 degree angles either, maybe 20, 30 degrees at most. This one is actually straight on:

Please explain to me in layman's terms(since I seem not to understand your physics) how 90 degree angle turns in airflow are as efficient as ones that are directly exposed?

[kanecvl]

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

There is an install video in our GB thread:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468059

Must have missed something cause I didn't see where it said average install time.

[Forcefed3]

[QUOTE=TTurboBullett;8569184]

Originally Posted by gbreeE90

Wait for someone to post both of my pictures from my other thread on here and you can see.

Penn has stated that 10 ambient rows on the helix are directly exposed well here's a pic from your car showing only 5 ambient rows exposed on the HPF! That ladies and gentlemen is a 100% increase in exposed ambient face on the helix! Now someone with some background in physics please explain how much cooling potential is increased if you double the exposed ambient face? Please let's talk scientifically and leave the manufacturers white paper/marketing tool out of it! What's really funny is I have openly called out HPF, Ams and others for an independent intercooler shootout why no response? Because they know the science( that I have been talking about) and they know the deck is seriously stacked against them in the real world!
So I'll say it again let's do an intercooler shootout!

[IMG]http://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=466960

[Imperator]

Originally Posted by Penn999

90 degree turns for ambient are causes a lot of turbulence. If you think that 90 degree turns bring in anywhere near as much as the TRUELY exposed to ambient airflow then you know nothing about physics. Show me a wind tunnel explanation of this...

The "90-degree turns" of airflow and turbulence behind a blockage source doesn't render that portion of the intercooler ineffective. At speed, the frontal area becomes slightly pressurized across the entire face of the intercooler and radiator. Keep in mind, there are many obstacles in the airstream path, so you're not looking at a 100% "pass-through-rate" of air through the core. The intercooler works best with a direct airflow path but BMW did us a great favor by placing the OEM intercooler mostly below the coolant radiator so they are exposed to their own airflow paths. On the backside, the fan shroud integrates both the FMIC and radiator working like a plenum to direct that pressurized air path at speed while allowing the radiator fan to pull air through the intercooler portion when the vehicle is stopped. Granted, a greater volume of air may pass through the unblocked lower portion of the intercooler but that pressurized area also passes through the middle portion behind the front bumper reinforcement. With the engine block and electric radiator fan motor mostly occupying this middle area directly behind the intercooler and radiator, it is also more dense and inhibits the airflow path slightly.

A wind tunnel experiment won't yield the same results as the same vehicle @ road speed but I suppose it could be used to simulate a control of a 60 MPH airstream across the face of the bumper. Here's a link to a somewhat-related study with regard to radiator efficiency and bumper/blockage shapes. The results shouldn't be surprising, but the use of a horizontal airflow blockage is most efficient by design. In short, this area of blockage is so non-consequential that it's not even worth arguing over.

Even with the additional upper area of the Helix partially blocked by the bumper, the heatsink properties of the aluminum core provide some measures of additional cooling over a shorter core of equal depth. And that brings us to the more relevant feature to argue over, which is core design. Save your keystrokes, as all of the popular aftermarket FMICs are more than ample in size for heat loads at our power levels. If you want to argue over something comparable, start looking at fin pack, core and endtank design.

[Forcefed3]

I do know that o felt crazy gains from my hpf and more than 5 ambient rows show when you look directly at it. It's 6 or 7 I'm not with my car so I can't check.