[Phil G.]

I'm in the process of ordering a new 328xi sedan. When quoted an invoice price, I was given two additional charges: one for an "training fee" for $180 and the other for an "advertising fee" for $100. I'm in PA - the dealer stated that the training fee is standard for the US but that the ad fee could vary state to state. Anyone heard of these fees? He claims that they are on the invoice and this is a charge the dealers pay. Also, he is charging me his cost for carpeted floor mats - $110. When I leased my '07, mats were included. Is this just an add-on or are others paying this as well. I'm hoping to order within the next couple of weeks. Thanks!!

[Whostheboss]

Training fee" for $180 and the other for an "advertising fee" for $100............ never heard of it

[nhhiep]

sad, but true. matts don't come standard for this car. You should have included in during the negotiation process.

the other 2 fees that you mentioned are valid for them to charge you and it really depends on where you live. another term for it is MACO fee. Even within CA, some cities have it, some don't.

overall, he is being honest with you here. try to talk if you can split these fees with them. in 2006, I didn't have to pay for any of these and I got my e90 for $100 over invoice. I guess you have to sit down with them and do more talking

[LI E90]

MACO fee is very real..

any dealer who charges you for floor mats is nickle and diming you

[sor74]

Training is ligeit, it's actually on the confidential BMW invoice pricing, $180. MACO also does vary, it's $250 in the Boston area. I haven't negotiated floor mats yet...

[rukawa005]

those are some sweet training/MACO fees.. over here in socal it looks more like $180 and $380

training and MACO (if applicable) are built into the dealer's invoice so if u'r negotiating invoice + X, then be aware that u'll have to pay it.

i always negotiate w/o mats so i can get my own all weather ones but that's just personal preference.

[Chuvak]

when you say mats, do you mean my e90, priced at like $53k that is on order will came with no floor mats?

[rukawa005]

Originally Posted by Chuvak

when you say mats, do you mean my e90, priced at like $53k that is on order will came with no floor mats?

yup that's what we're saying no mats on a 50K car, unless dealer throws it in or was pre-negotiated.

[nhhiep]

Originally Posted by Chuvak

when you say mats, do you mean my e90, priced at like $53k that is on order will came with no floor mats?

yeah, does it make you mad or what? that shocked me too when I got even a 325. even a camry has that standard or a sentra with BT standard. Yet, we're still driving a BMW. crazy uhh?

I wonder if the M3 gets that standard. how about a 7 series?

[yogi4]

the training fee is charged in many states ( you could refer to invoice) MACO fee(advertising fee applies to few cities I guess) Here in chicago we pay $200. But many dealers ( in my case all dealers that I visited) offered me free mats. So this(mats) is something you have to work with the dealer. But you would be charged the training fee at many dealerships.

[Phil G.]

The initial deal I got over the phone was around $500 over invoice on a loaded 328i x-Drive (plus the $110 for the mats). Since I'm ordering the Sport Package, and don't like the wheels that come with it (the 284's I believe), I'm ordering the 2S1 17" wheels (style 285) which cost an additional $275. But, they come through with performance tires, and part of my negotiations is that I want A/S tires swapped out for the summer tires. Salesman is going to the GM to see if they'll do it. If they will, and they throw in the carpet mats, (I have zero intention of paying for those), I'll likely do the deal, which I think is a fair one.

Thanks for the info on the training and ad (MACO) fees, which I thought were probably legit. I guess around Philly, those aren't too bad considering what others are paying for them.

[ncoig]

It never ceases to amaze me that people focus on these individual fees as though they matter. If you paid sticker, you'd likely never hear the first thing about MACO unless the dealer was just trying to "stick it to you." They don't really care about those fees particularly, they just have a bottom line they want to get to above what the car costs them, at least in my experience.

For those who claim buying cars at invoice and so forth, I'll bet if I looked at the deal, I could find $1,000 of profit - easily - and not including holdbacks or trunk money. It comes in the form of finance markup, MACO, document fees, dealer prep, whatever. If they see you're focused on "invoice+" then they'll cater to that and rail you someplace else.

If the dealer is pegging you for MACO, chances are there wasn't as much fat in the deal as they wanted and they are trying to salvage a couple hundred more bucks.

-N

[Phil G.]

Originally Posted by ncoig

It never ceases to amaze me that people focus on these individual fees as though they matter. If you paid sticker, you'd likely never hear the first thing about MACO unless the dealer was just trying to "stick it to you." They don't really care about those fees particularly, they just have a bottom line they want to get to above what the car costs them, at least in my experience.

For those who claim buying cars at invoice and so forth, I'll bet if I looked at the deal, I could find $1,000 of profit - easily - and not including holdbacks or trunk money. It comes in the form of finance markup, MACO, document fees, dealer prep, whatever. If they see you're focused on "invoice+" then they'll cater to that and rail you someplace else.

If the dealer is pegging you for MACO, chances are there wasn't as much fat in the deal as they wanted and they are trying to salvage a couple hundred more bucks.

-N

I agree. And I don't hold it against dealers to make a profit - they need it to stay in business. I will likely buy from this dealer since he's the only one who actually has put any effort at all into getting my business. The local Philly dealers don't seem to care if I walk or not. I don't get it. How many cars can they be selling in this economy, especially as we approach the dead of winter.

[Phil G.]

In English, please!

[beskone]

Originally Posted by rukawa005

those are some sweet training/MACO fees.. over here in socal it looks more like $180 and $380

your shopping at the wrong dealer my friend

I got $0 MACO $0 Training Fees at Long Beach BMW, Jason Serot and the Internet Sales Group FTMFW!

I had assumed it was statewide, but apparently it's not?

[Phil G.]

Ready to buy a loaded '09 328xi. So, today I called BMW of the Main Line to get some pricing info. Of note, I have bought 5 BMWs there since 1986, as well as referred several clients to them who have purchased cars. Although a dealer in central PA offered me around $500 over invoice, this dealer offered the car at $1000 over invoice, and cried the blues to me about how tough things are and how people are getting laid off, etc. But to make things worse, they quoted me a much higher MACO fee than the other dealer, plus although they'll "throw in the mats for free" they're charging me almost $300 for "dealer prep, detailing, and gas." I basically told the guy that I guess my dealer loyalty is worthless, and that I had no intention of buying from him as they are absolutely not competitive. He didn't seem to give two shits. What the hell is going on here? Are they living in a parallel universe??