[Seminole]

Originally Posted by shadowcoder

Well lets think about this a bit, yes? If the lifters are ticking because
there's not enough oil up there, then that means poor lubrication.

We all know what poor lubrication means - lifters, springs, arms, cam
shaft will all wear out.

The average driver won't even notice it. Some, won't even keep the
car past 50K miles anyway. Those who will, may probably notice a slight
decrease in performance around 80-100K but they and the dealer will
attribute it to the miles already in the car. Those who will definitely
notice will be those who see their car not pulling at high speeds.

BMW will simply say that it's bad lubrication and it was the owner's
fault. Bad thing for them is that if the car has never thrown a code
for low oil and all maintenance regarding the engine has been done
to the dealer, then warranty or no warranty, they will be liable because
the cause would have been poor lubrication due to a bad design. Not
tear and wear.

As such, if there is damage at least to my engine, they're gonna be
paying for the cost of the repairs.

But I am upset at the attitude they have (BMW & dealers) regarding
the ticking and the customer complain when they know this isn't
normal. I don't want my car to sustain that kind of damage. It will
be my E36 nightmare all over again.

You don't need to give me a speech, I happen to disagree with BMW, but I was just stating what the dealer will tell him.

[shadowcoder]

Originally Posted by Seminole

You don't need to give me a speech, I happen to disagree with BMW, but I was just stating what the dealer will tell him.

The intent was to vent our frustration. Wasn't giving you a speech. I only
wanted to convey that somehow BMW thinks we are all fools and can't
think.

[Rekla]

Just called my dealership telling my SA the metallic ticking noise returned (after they did the "bleeding" in June 2008) and he immediately scheduled me in for a cylinder head replacement. My SA gave me the correct explanation - lifters tick due to lack of pressurized oil due to a missing check valve in the head - and was very helpful. I've got my appointment and loaner arranged, bringing in the car 4/16. He says their success rate for a cylinder head replacement to resolve this issue is 100%. I'm very happy with my SA service and explanation. I was afraid for them to give me a hard time to resolve this issue, but it went very smooth and honest. He agreed that owners of a 40-50k car don’t want these kind of embarrassment and annoyances. He also said the current condition will not do any damage to the engine. I'm so glad it is all set up to be permanently fixed. I'm in my 30th month of ownership and have 22k miles on the ODO. Good luck to all of you getting to the point where I am.

[shadowcoder]

Originally Posted by Rekla

Just called my dealership telling my SA the metallic ticking noise returned (after they did the "bleeding" in June 2008) and he immediately scheduled me in for a cylinder head replacement. My SA gave me the correct explanation - lifters tick due to lack of pressurized oil due to a missing check valve in the head - and was very helpful. I've got my appointment and loaner arranged, bringing in the car 4/16. He says their success rate for a cylinder head replacement to resolve this issue is 100%. I'm very happy with my SA service and explanation. I was afraid for them to give me a hard time to resolve this issue, but it went very smooth and honest. He agreed that owners of a 40-50k car don’t want these kind of embarrassment and annoyances. He also said the current condition will not do any damage to the engine. I'm so glad it is all set up to be permanently fixed. I'm in my 30th month of ownership and have 22k miles on the ODO. Good luck to all of you getting to the point where I am.

Can you please ask your SA or the engineer why they think/say there will
be no damage to the engine? The way I interpret what they say is that
there's not enough oil hence the ticking. Do they mean that the oil is
adequate for perfect lubrication but not enough for the lifters not to tick?

[Rekla]

Originally Posted by shadowcoder

Can you please ask your SA or the engineer why they think/say there will
be no damage to the engine? The way I interpret what they say is that
there's not enough oil hence the ticking. Do they mean that the oil is
adequate for perfect lubrication but not enough for the lifters not to tick?

Sounds about right. He said "pressurized oil" is not available in cylinder head due to the lack of a valve to keep it there when the engine is shut down. Hey, I'm not trying to be the wise guy , just passing on the message. Also, for others to let them know there is hope - I guess you just have to end up with the right person when you make your complain.

[flicks28]

Originally Posted by shadowcoder

Well lets think about this a bit, yes? If the lifters are ticking because
there's not enough oil up there, then that means poor lubrication.

We all know what poor lubrication means - lifters, springs, arms, cam
shaft will all wear out.

The average driver won't even notice it. Some, won't even keep the
car past 50K miles anyway. Those who will, may probably notice a slight
decrease in performance around 80-100K but they and the dealer will
attribute it to the miles already in the car. Those who will definitely
notice will be those who see their car not pulling at high speeds.

BMW will simply say that it's bad lubrication and it was the owner's
fault. Bad thing for them is that if the car has never thrown a code
for low oil and all maintenance regarding the engine has been done
to the dealer, then warranty or no warranty, they will be liable because
the cause would have been poor lubrication due to a bad design. Not
tear and wear.

As such, if there is damage at least to my engine, they're gonna be
paying for the cost of the repairs.

But I am upset at the attitude they have (BMW & dealers) regarding
the ticking and the customer complain when they know this isn't
normal. I don't want my car to sustain that kind of damage. It will
be my E36 nightmare all over again.

Actually Shadowcoder is correct. I have a great relationship with my SA and also had the cylinder head replacement done 9 months ago. My SA said there will eventually be problems with the engine but not for awhile. Since my cylinder head has been replaced, I have had no problems at all. Like I mentioned before, if I was in the market for a used 2006-2008 325/328/330, I would not buy one without the cylinder head replacement.

[shadowcoder]

Originally Posted by Rekla

Sounds about right. He said "pressurized oil" is not available in cylinder head due to the lack of a valve to keep it there when the engine is shut down. Hey, I'm not trying to be the wise guy , just passing on the message. Also, for others to let them know there is hope - I guess you just have to end up with the right person when you make your complain.

Thank you for passing the info. I'm not trying to be mean to anyone here.
We are all in the same boat. I'm just trying to gather up info that I can use
to have the change done to my car. I already went to my closest dealer
and they haven't changed a single cylinder head. Also claimed that this is
normal and there won't be a problem with the engine.

I'm just gathering info to go back to them because I have the ticking noise
in my car as well. They mentioned to me about the bleeding SIB but said
BMW isn't doing anything more than that. Which isn't actually true. Just
trying to find the best approach to put pressure on them without becoming
a dick about it. At the end this isn't their fault but BMW's.

[Rekla]

Originally Posted by shadowcoder

I'm just gathering info to go back to them because I have the ticking noise in my car as well. They mentioned to me about the bleeding SIB but said BMW isn't doing anything more than that. Which isn't actually true. Just trying to find the best approach to put pressure on them without becoming a dick about it. At the end this isn't their fault but BMW's.

Maybe this is a good approach. I prepared myself with this story... Didn't have to use it as you know (since the dealer was very helpfull and immediately scheduled me in for a cylinder head replacement). Tell them you are well informed about this subject. Tell them the only way to get it permanently and correcly fixed is to have them submit a Puma case to get authorization to swap the head. I was told by a BMW tech (who PMed me) that Puma always says yes. Hope this helps.

[PoweredByRICE]

My car only has 10k miles on it and I have had the ticking for the whole ownership of my car, about 15 months. I had the bleeding procedure done 1 month ago and it came back the other day. I told my SA, and they got me in touch with the Service Manager, and I mentioned my problem to him directly. They called BMW and they have a "slew" of parts coming in to fix the issue. I will post as soon as I find out what they are. I basically just said I don't want to deal with this nuisance and my dealership was awesome at helping me get this progressed.

[dth656]

is there any recourse to those of us out of warranty? here is a link to my recent repost:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252090


basically, it came back at 52k miles (was 'fixed' by camshaft replacement at 17k miles, and no problems until today)

[runnerx]

Originally Posted by dth656

is there any recourse to those of us out of warranty? here is a link to my recent repost:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252090


basically, it came back at 52k miles (was 'fixed' by camshaft replacement at 17k miles, and no problems until today)

Have you talked to your local dealership yet? Given that it is barely over 50k, they may give you a goodwill replacement, plus you record shows you had this problem before the warranty expired and they never fixed it. You have great reason to have them cover it for you. Good luck!

[rodgerdodger]

Hey guys i just got my car back from the dealership yesterday. Brought it in on monday so a total of 3 days work. I brought it in for the same noise problem. I heard a ticking noise after i would accelerate. the problem was the wastegate. they replaced it and no the car runs better and sounds great. So if you guys hear the same thing it could be your wastegate taking a shit on you.

[ni8shadow]

I live about an hour away from the closest dealer. I went in for the ticking and break squeels. They bled my car and now I have ticking. They did not "hear" the brake noise so they didn't do jack. If I take in again for ticking and they don't "hear it" they probably won't fix it and I just wasted my time.

My question is, is there anything bad that could happen if I just "live" with the ticking?

EDIT* I just read a post above. Seems there may be issues. Damn.

[wowzer]

This thread has been very helpful.

My E90 w/ 20,000 miles has had the ticking noise off and on for several months. I called the service department (Roadshow BMW Memphis) yesterday and scheduled an appointment with a very brief description of the problem. Of course, when I dropped my car off later that day, there was no noise. My SA, Vickie, quickly explained that they know what the problem is and are going to replace the cylinder head and lifters. I was in and out with a loaner car in ten minutes.

I will update when I get my car back later this week.

[xspikesx]

Just my 2 cents...

took in to dealer yesterday, they "bled" it a 2nd time, i'll have to wait and see if the ticking persists.

my SA/McKenna BMW told me bleeding it is pretty much all they can do, but if need be i guess i'll have to force them into replacing the valve or whatever it is that needs to be replaced.

under my service write-up it's called noise pulsation coming from fuel evap.

[Viper3812]

Originally Posted by ni8shadow

I live about an hour away from the closest dealer. I went in for the ticking and break squeels. They bled my car and now I have ticking. They did not "hear" the brake noise so they didn't do jack. If I take in again for ticking and they don't "hear it" they probably won't fix it and I just wasted my time.

My question is, is there anything bad that could happen if I just "live" with the ticking?

EDIT* I just read a post above. Seems there may be issues. Damn.

There is a bullentin for the brake squeal. Tell them and they have to change your brake pads and sensor. The sensor is touching the rotor. Pull the wheels off yourself if you want to know which one so you can tell them when you go.

[wowzer]

***UPDATE***
I took my car in for service on Monday, April 20. I just got my car back today and no ticking yet. Here is some info from the service invoice.


20137 PERFORMED SIB 11 09 07. FOR HVA BLEEDING PROCEDURE. PERFORMED BLEEDING 5 TIMES AND PERFORMED AN ADDITIONAL 15MIN BLEED.

E** ENGINE STILL MAKES A NOISE ON COLD START-
CAUSE: 1 FRU APPROVED

1112661 Replacing cylinder head 8991 WA40 1.32

CYLINDER HEAD WITH VALVE (N/C)
SET OF ALU. SCREWS F (N/C)
ASA-STUD BOLT (N/C)
COLLAR SCREW (N/C)
CYLINDER HEAD GASKET (N/C)
SET OF ALU. SCREWS F (N/C)
TORX SCREWS (N/C)
TORX SCREWS (N/C)
HEX SCREW WITH COLLAR (N/C)
MOTOR OIL SAE 5W-30 (N/C)
SET OIL-FILTER (N/C)
ANTIFREEZE (N/C)

20148 PUMA CASE#--------. ADMIN PAYMENT WAS APPROVED BY PUMA. PERFORMED DIS TEST SENT FASTA DATA. PERFORMED PUMA CASE FOR CYLINDER HEAD TICKING NOISE. PUMA INSTRUCTED TO REPLACE THE CYLINDER HEAD. R/R CYLINDER HEAD. TEST DROVE THE VEHICLE AFTER THE HEAD WAS REPLACED. THE VEHICLE TESTED OK. NO FAULTS WERE STORED AND NO CHECK CONTROL LIGHTS WERE ON.


I hope this is useful.

[dr.jay]

I have a 08 328XI, ticking is really bad just passed 10,500 miles and it sounds like the engine is about to take a shit. I have a service appt for the 29th and I will print this post for my SA

[ni8shadow]

They bled it 5 times in one day? Damn I wish my SA was that dedicated to customer service.

So is there a bulletin or something for the service peeps that state if you bleed it and the sound comes back you HAVE to replace cylinder head?

Originally Posted by wowzer

***UPDATE***
I took my car in for service on Monday, April 20. I just got my car back today and no ticking yet. Here is some info from the service invoice.


20137 PERFORMED SIB 11 09 07. FOR HVA BLEEDING PROCEDURE. PERFORMED BLEEDING 5 TIMES AND PERFORMED AN ADDITIONAL 15MIN BLEED.

E** ENGINE STILL MAKES A NOISE ON COLD START-
CAUSE: 1 FRU APPROVED

1112661 Replacing cylinder head 8991 WA40 1.32

CYLINDER HEAD WITH VALVE (N/C)
SET OF ALU. SCREWS F (N/C)
ASA-STUD BOLT (N/C)
COLLAR SCREW (N/C)
CYLINDER HEAD GASKET (N/C)
SET OF ALU. SCREWS F (N/C)
TORX SCREWS (N/C)
TORX SCREWS (N/C)
HEX SCREW WITH COLLAR (N/C)
MOTOR OIL SAE 5W-30 (N/C)
SET OIL-FILTER (N/C)
ANTIFREEZE (N/C)

20148 PUMA CASE#--------. ADMIN PAYMENT WAS APPROVED BY PUMA. PERFORMED DIS TEST SENT FASTA DATA. PERFORMED PUMA CASE FOR CYLINDER HEAD TICKING NOISE. PUMA INSTRUCTED TO REPLACE THE CYLINDER HEAD. R/R CYLINDER HEAD. TEST DROVE THE VEHICLE AFTER THE HEAD WAS REPLACED. THE VEHICLE TESTED OK. NO FAULTS WERE STORED AND NO CHECK CONTROL LIGHTS WERE ON.


I hope this is useful.

[DESI4life10]

Originally Posted by DESI4life10

----------------------
Just a general update on my situation:

I have now been driving my car with the new (revised) cylinder head for a couple of days. During those days, there hasn't been any ticking noise I was able to try it out on short drives on cold days and everything was running well. Will keep you guy posted on anything new that comes up!

Just another update. Had the cylinder head replaced Feb 28/09. So far the engine is running strong and I have not heard any ticking coming from the bay.

Definitely push the dealer to replace the head. The bleed/lifter stuff is just temporary stuff and will not stop the problem. If you push hard, they will do it for you.

[wowzer]

Originally Posted by ni8shadow

They bled it 5 times in one day? Damn I wish my SA was that dedicated to customer service.

So is there a bulletin or something for the service peeps that state if you bleed it and the sound comes back you HAVE to replace cylinder head?

Maybe others can comment on the service bulletin, but this is obviously a known issue. The only description of the problem I gave was "engine ticking noise." My SA asked for no further details and didn't need to hear the ticking before telling me they were going to replace the cylinder head.

I wonder if they actually bled it 5 times or just went through the motions to get approval to fix the problem, since they were finished by the end of the second business day. Either way, I'm grateful for the quick service.

I have been very satisfied with the service at my dealership (Roadshow BMW Memphis) and would recommend them without hesitation. Previously, I had my car in for the first annual service and only mentioned I thought the tires were a bit noisy. My SA told me they would put a new set of tires on because others had complained of the noise from the same model tire. In my experience, they have been very customer-oriented, unlike others I have read about in this thread. I sympathize with those that have to struggle to get a genuine problem fixed.

[Rekla]

Dropped car of at dealer 4/16. They worked on the cylinder head till 4/21. Then they started trouble shooting the steering wheel lock mechanism since it rattled on occasion. They replaced the upper steering column. Car back 4/27. I had a brand new 528i as a loaner, put 650 miles on it and I enjoyed that ride. Here is the partslist:

(1) 11-12-7-591-617 N52 Cylinder head with valve
(1) 11-12-9-391-547 Set of Alu. screws F Cylinder
(1) 11-12-7-548-799 Bolt cylinder head
(1) 11-12-0-392-547 set of alu. screws
(3) 11-12-7-521-167 ASS-Stud Bolt
(2) 11-36-7-524-954 Collar Screw
(1) 11-12-7-555-757 Cylinder head gasket
(1) 11-12-7-548-921 Gasket set cylinder head
(1) 11-12-0-409-288 set of alu. screws
(2) 13-62-7-530-413 Torx screw
(2) 11-12-7-529-997 Torx Screw
(6) 33-32-6-768-354 Hex screw with collar
(1) 11-42-7-566-327 Set oil-filter Elem
(7) 07-51-0-017-954 Motor oil SW30
(1) 82-14-1-467-704 Antifreeze
(1) 22-11-0-392-551 Set of Alu. screws

Engine purrrrrrrssssss just fine now. No more ticking of the valves noticeable even when the hood is open. Not enough miles yet for a durability/reliability report / gas mileage observation. My SA told me I was his 6th Head replacement, there are about 5 SA at the dealership so they did close to 30 so far. He told me if this was done outside warranty it would probably run between $6,250 - $7,000. Ouch! Glad I got it done although time will tell if messing with the engine and tearing it apart has effect on the reliability. I've got 17 months left on my original 4 year warranty.