[zltm089]

after all this talk....(probably gona get flamed for asking this...)

I was wondering, what is the difference between fitting an lsd and turning off the DSC?

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by zltm089

after all this talk....(probably gona get flamed for asking this...)

I was wondering, what is the difference between fitting an lsd and turning off the DSC?

Just briefly :

DSC uses elctronics to monitor the way your car is handling and your inputs (acceleration, yaw, etc.) and can alter the delivery of power (by throttling back the engine) or even braking an individual wheel - to try and keep your car within the programmed safety bounds - hopefully stepping in to prevent your car spinning out. Try stopping your car on ice and you can feel all the brakes fluctuating trying to slow you down and keep you in a straight line.

An LSD is a mechanical (or hydraulic) derivative of a standard differential. The differential means that both rear wheels can rotate at different speeds (you can't use a direct link between rear wheels or you will get MASSIVE understeer when you try and turn a corner as the inside wheel on a corner rotates less than the outside wheel) but with a normal diff you can still get power spread between the wheels. The problem occurs if one wheel loses traction and spins, then the other can lose all power = no power getting put down to the road, and thus no progress.

An LSD (limited slip differential) will slightly lock-up depend on torque/load settings on the old style of diff (permanent setting), or hydraulic shear lock-up on the newer ones (smoother action), meaning you will retain a set degree of power to your wheels even if one loses traction - and hence forward motion. Great for finely controlling slides/power delivery to the rear wheels.

LSDs can mean you get great traction out of tight corners or on patchy surfaces. But some can induce a little understeer if set too harshly - not generally with the ones offered for the road.

DSC and LSDs do slightly different things. LSDs will work well even with DSC on.

Traction control just kills engine power and/or brakes to stop any wheelspin, not as sophisticated as DSC.

D.

[zltm089]

Cheers Dave...a lil bit clearer for me now...

[NFS]

Originally Posted by zltm089

Cheers Dave...a lil bit clearer for me now...

DTC is intended to act like an electronic LSD.

Normally DSC cuts engine power or brakes the wheels as soon as it detects any wheelspin.

DTC allows more wheelspin before these interventions occur. This gives the driver the opportunity to power out of a bend.

'Officially' it's for snow and ice, but the motoring journalists seem pretty clear that it's 'unofficially' for doing skids.

[AWD Addict]

This car drives like crap in start-up/nanny mode in the snow. It's awful. The car actually overrules you if you hit the accellerator in lots of circumstances, which to me is insanity.

In a bit of a slide when you need some gas to pull out (pretty much any cornering activity in 1/2" + snow), the car actually says "nope, we're going to plow into the sidwalk instead - for safety's sake!" It's actually pretty scary, as the car becomes pretty unpredictable.

At a minimum, turning on DTC is a must (particularly if you learned to drive on an AWD car before the industry added an onboard nanny). turning off DSC (long press) probably isn't nececssary. I rarely have the car correct me with DTC on in snow, and I often sling the car around pretty aggressively (on abandoned roads of course). I honestly didn't find TOO much of a difference between DTC on, and all off. It's there for sure, but I can still do donuts and power slides without the car jumping in with DTC on.

[themetz]

FFS. One touch = DTC ON ON ON ON ON

[AWD Addict]

FFS!

I fixed it.

[zltm089]

Originally Posted by AWD Addict

This car drives like crap in start-up/nanny mode in the snow. It's awful. The car actually overrules you if you hit the accellerator in lots of circumstances, which to me is insanity.

In a bit of a slide when you need some gas to pull out (pretty much any cornering activity in 1/2" + snow), the car actually says "nope, we're going to plow into the sidwalk instead - for safety's sake!" It's actually pretty scary, as the car becomes pretty unpredictable.

At a minimum, turning on DTC is a must (particularly if you learned to drive on an AWD car before the industry added an onboard nanny). turning off DSC (long press) probably isn't nececssary. I rarely have the car correct me with DTC on in snow, and I often sling the car around pretty aggressively (on abandoned roads of course). I honestly didn't find TOO much of a difference between DTC on, and all off. It's there for sure, but I can still do donuts and power slides without the car jumping in with DTC on.

massive difference when its fully off for me....

(fully off) in a straight line, if i floor it in wet conditions, the rear end moves about violently! I though that it would be just wheel spins, but i can the rear end moving about "snapping" right and left!...

[YvesD]

Originally Posted by zltm089

massive difference when its fully off for me....

(fully off) in a straight line, if i floor it in wet conditions, the rear end moves about violently! I though that it would be just wheel spins, but i can the rear end moving about "snapping" right and left!...

You need a Quaife.......

[zltm089]

Originally Posted by YvesD

You need a Quaife.......

saving up mate ;-)

maybe next year!....

Plus a remap, BMW Performance tuning kit, some decent non runflat tyres, and that aero front lip...

These have been on my mind for nearly 2 years now....need the cash

[YvesD]

Originally Posted by zltm089

saving up mate ;-)

maybe next year!....

Plus a remap, BMW Performance tuning kit, some decent non runflat tyres, and that aero front lip...

These have been on my mind for nearly 2 years now....need the cash

By the way, 189's look great on a lowered Coupe

[zltm089]

Originally Posted by YvesD

By the way, 189's look great on a lowered Coupe

Quite happy with standard suspension TBH ...

actually, when fitting non runflats, I might consider a "revised" suspension to make sure that the ride isn't too soft....Bilstein or Eibach maybe?...

[E90jonno]

Dtc Off Is Like You Eating Spinach Makes You Brave!!

[amac8585]

i have a 320d touring and drove from glasgow to newport and back. before return leg (375 miles+) i got the warning light for DTC/DSC not working.

i didn't have time to go to garage and get it sorted as it was my return day and my experience is as follows:

on motorway even in wet from glasgow to down south the car handled pretty much as it would normally. I did hit higher speeds on and off and it was ok.

the following day I drove to devon (wet) - ok on way down and and back a couple of days later - 250miles round trip. and the car was handling a bit like if the back tyres were bald, back end skitting out occasionally but I didn't exceed 60mph and used my gears, braking early and being very careful.

The only time my DTC ever usually flashes is on ice and snow, but whilst it had failed i did notice the car had mixed handling.

on straight motorways - ok. but in hills, adverse camber and tighter country roads and roundabouts it had to be nursed round corners. i suspect the 318/320 are not too bad as they have only 160 bhp or thereabouts.

I had a 335d temporarily - and i suspect without DSC/DTC on it , it would be like skating on ice with a rocket back up yer backside with all that extra rear wheel power coming through.

bottom line - you can live without this feature if you are careful on lower powered bimmers, but the lack of this feature does have a subtle effect so you may miss it at times depending on road conditions even if you are not used to it flashing up all the time by driving wild. more so on the bigger lumps.

I'm gonna get it fixed though because newer MOT standards this autumn might have this on the list of things to have.

[B33M3R]

You've either got a very laggy Internet connection or decided to reply to a two year old thread. Which is it?

[A_P]

Originally Posted by amac8585

i have a 320d touring and drove from glasgow to newport and back. before return leg (375 miles+) i got the warning light for DTC/DSC not working.

i didn't have time to go to garage and get it sorted as it was my return day and my experience is as follows:

on motorway even in wet from glasgow to down south the car handled pretty much as it would normally. I did hit higher speeds on and off and it was ok.

the following day I drove to devon (wet) - ok on way down and and back a couple of days later - 250miles round trip. and the car was handling a bit like if the back tyres were bald, back end skitting out occasionally but I didn't exceed 60mph and used my gears, braking early and being very careful.

The only time my DTC ever usually flashes is on ice and snow, but whilst it had failed i did notice the car had mixed handling.

on straight motorways - ok. but in hills, adverse camber and tighter country roads and roundabouts it had to be nursed round corners. i suspect the 318/320 are not too bad as they have only 160 bhp or thereabouts.

I had a 335d temporarily - and i suspect without DSC/DTC on it , it would be like skating on ice with a rocket back up yer backside with all that extra rear wheel power coming through.

bottom line - you can live without this feature if you are careful on lower powered bimmers, but the lack of this feature does have a subtle effect so you may miss it at times depending on road conditions even if you are not used to it flashing up all the time by driving wild. more so on the bigger lumps.

I'm gonna get it fixed though because newer MOT standards this autumn might have this on the list of things to have.

Not trying to be harsh but are you missing a brain cell or two? Let me get this straight, you decided to ressurect a 2 year old thread just so you could say in your own words what pretty much was summed up, and done to death in this thread before?

It would have been better for you to start a new thread.

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by Awfully_Polite

Not trying to be harsh but are you missing a brain cell or two? Let me get this straight, you decided to ressurect a 2 year old thread just so you could say in your own words what pretty much was summed up, and done to death in this thread before?

It would have been better for you to start a new thread.

It shows he searched and then added his own first hand comments to the thread, very much on-topic. Threads don't have a sell-by date. I know most posters have the attention span of a goldfish, but I find posters who do a search and then add to existing posts much more credible.

On the contrary, makes it look like you never thought your comments through to the contradiction of your username.

D.

[A_P]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

It shows he searched and then added his own first hand comments to the thread, very much on-topic. Threads don't have a sell-by date. I know most posters have the attention span of a goldfish, but I find posters who do a search and then add to existing posts much more credible.

On the contrary, makes it look like you never thought your comments through to the contradiction of your username.

D.

I agree a thread does not have an expiry date. However this PARTICULAR thread should have one. I understand you are attached to it as you are heavily involved in the bulk of it, but like it or not, the thread is absolute wank.

To the guy missing the brain cells, by posting on this thread, In order to understand where he was coming from I had to skim read 9 pages of the same blah blah blah.

It was QED from the flipping beginning.

Back to you dave. If you got a problem with what I am posting and where I am posting. then PM me or start a new thread. Instead of making this boll*cks which you contributed towards get a free bump.

P.s It is very impressive that you can deduce that I am not always like my Member name.

Edit: Dave I know most posters DO NOT have an attention span of a goldfish but those that decide to subtly hint, with carefully chosen words that some have, I.E You, I find them, sorry you! to be a large bellend of some form. Subtly digest that.

Unkind Regards

AP

[Dave_3]

D.

[wheelie good]

As I have only had my Beamer a few months, found it a useful read understanding about the different modes

[Slow_335i]

WTF

Traction control completely off FTW!!

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

D.

You've upset the young'uns now dave...

Sorry I forgot what you said already