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      08-30-2016, 02:29 PM   #1
Jaghave
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Apple slap with 13 billion euros fine

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...16-8?r=UK&IR=T

Guess EU getting creative to figure out how to pay for Arab welfare migrants.
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      08-30-2016, 02:35 PM   #2
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Can't say I feel bad for a company as anti-consumer as Apple getting stung. Have no idea about the merits, just that the comeuppance feels good. That said, I acknowledge some improvement in terms of consumer behaviour under Tim Cook, but they're still the pinnacle of hubris.
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      08-30-2016, 04:02 PM   #3
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Im with Apple all the way on this one. Heres Tim Cook's response. It's outrageous what the EU is trying to get away with.
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      08-30-2016, 04:37 PM   #4
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Was interested in this thread, then read bullshit about paying for arab welfare crap. Interest immediately lost if that's the true underlying point of this thread.
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      08-30-2016, 05:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blksnowflake View Post
Was interested in this thread, then read bullshit about paying for arab welfare crap. Interest immediately lost if that's the true underlying point of this thread.
#triggered
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      08-30-2016, 05:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaghave View Post
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...16-8?r=UK&IR=T

Guess EU getting creative to figure out how to pay for Arab welfare migrants.
It's not a fine.

It's taxation that was due, applied retrospectively.
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      08-30-2016, 06:43 PM   #7
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Pretty bad move... they were compliant with Irish tax laws, the EU is just trying to have a hand in the pie. They change the rules and apply it retroactively?

I can see going forward, but not retroactively.
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      08-30-2016, 08:12 PM   #8
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I would feel worse for Apple if they didn't hire lobbyists to influence political issues. Jobs always stayed away from that, whereas Tim Cook jumped in with both feet. If he wants to push a social agenda (which he is doing), then someone is going to have to pay for it. I'd rather it be Apple than any nation's taxpayers.
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      08-30-2016, 10:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blksnowflake View Post
Was interested in this thread, then read bullshit about paying for arab welfare crap. Interest immediately lost if that's the true underlying point of this thread.
Sorry for giving my prospective on the discussion which is EU just trying to find any method to grab money to pay for dumb policy.
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      08-30-2016, 10:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blksnowflake View Post
Was interested in this thread, then read bullshit about paying for arab welfare crap. Interest immediately lost if that's the true underlying point of this thread.
X2 and out.
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      08-31-2016, 07:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GirthBrooks View Post
#triggered
Lols
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      08-31-2016, 08:11 AM   #12
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Good
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      08-31-2016, 10:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobb View Post
It's not a fine.

It's taxation that was due, applied retrospectively.
How is it taxation due?

Apple had a favorable tax ruling in Ireland (i.e. it was blessed by the Irish tax authorities) and met all legal requirements of that country. This is more the EU not liking the Irish tax system and trying to get them to retroactively adjust it. Apple did nothing wrong here and paid the tax owing under the tax laws of Ireland which is where they were subject to tax. Ireland itself plans to fight this. If anything, in my view, it's a problem for Ireland too because if I was Apple, I would go after Ireland because they worked within the appropriate law and if Ireland granted benefits that it shouldn't have under an EU agreement, that's Ireland's issue.
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Last edited by gthal; 08-31-2016 at 10:47 AM.
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      08-31-2016, 10:34 AM   #14
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Phah, the EU, who'd want to be part of that
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      08-31-2016, 11:29 AM   #15
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Interesting counter-point: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/appl...case-1.3741145

Not sure how true this is, but if Ireland allowed Apple to attribute profits on a "stateless" basis, then Apple declared those profits earned in Ireland elsewhere and then made the "stateless" in Ireland. That is pure tax avoidance and there are probably billions of tax dollars that should have flowed to US taxing authorities (among others).

If that's what happened, why would any of us be bent out of shape for the EU catching up to Apple on this? Hopefully, all the other corporations using similar tax avoidance schemes get hammered too.
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      08-31-2016, 11:46 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
How is it taxation due?

Apple had a favorable tax ruling in Ireland (i.e. it was blessed by the Irish tax authorities) and met all legal requirements of that country. This is more the EU not liking the Irish tax system and trying to get them to retroactively adjust it. Apple did nothing wrong here and paid the tax owing under the tax laws of Ireland which is where they were subject to tax. Ireland itself plans to fight this. If anything, in my view, it's a problem for Ireland too because if I was Apple, I would go after Ireland because they worked within the appropriate law and if Ireland granted benefits that it shouldn't have under an EU agreement, that's Ireland's issue.
Regardless of the argument here Apple can afford to pay, Ireland certainly can't
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      08-31-2016, 12:09 PM   #17
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So it's my understanding that the EU is going after Apple for paying some ridiculously low tax rate that both Apple and Ireland agreed to in exchange for offering jobs in Ireland.

It's against EU policy to give out state favors like that hence why this is happening. But why punish Apple for something Ireland did?

Also, how long will it be before the EU goes after Facebook, Google, Microsoft, etc etc?

EDIT: I forgot....they already went after Google after they raided their office in France.
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      08-31-2016, 02:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
How is it taxation due?

Apple had a favorable tax ruling in Ireland (i.e. it was blessed by the Irish tax authorities) and met all legal requirements of that country. This is more the EU not liking the Irish tax system and trying to get them to retroactively adjust it. Apple did nothing wrong here and paid the tax owing under the tax laws of Ireland which is where they were subject to tax. Ireland itself plans to fight this. If anything, in my view, it's a problem for Ireland too because if I was Apple, I would go after Ireland because they worked within the appropriate law and if Ireland granted benefits that it shouldn't have under an EU agreement, that's Ireland's issue.
Well instead of "taxation" we could call it a "pineapple' if that makes you feel better.
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      08-31-2016, 07:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobb View Post
Well instead of "taxation" we could call it a "pineapple' if that makes you feel better.
You can call it "taxation" if it makes you feel better too

Bottom line is if a company follows the law, that shouldn't offend or upset anyone. If you don't like the result, lobby to change the law. Any company would take a prudent tax planning approach to reduce their liability to the extent the law allowed it. Why would anyone choose to pay more tax than is required by the laws of the country in which the tax is owing?

Don't get me wrong, rules are bent (or broken) and games are played. In this case, my understanding is that Apple actually received a favourable tax ruling from Ireland. Once a company has disclosed their tax planning and received tax authority consent, then their duty is done. There has been commentary that the EU assessment is based on the idea that the deal given to Apple was anti-competitive because other companies didn't get equivalent benefits. If this is true, it isn't Apple's fault... it's Ireland's fault because they shouldn't have allowed the tax treatment in the first place. But they did.

The reality is none of us have all of the nuance and detail here. I am certain that it will be years before the courts sort it out
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      08-31-2016, 07:47 PM   #20
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It's a matter of the EU flexing its muscles over it's member states. It wants it to be known that the EU is in charge of setting taxation, not Ireland.

Lots of large companies use places overseas as tax havens. There is no universal rule on where taxes are collected so they play this big shell game to hide their profits from taxes.

The US and the EU are both trying to get companies to pay taxes. The EU says those taxes are paid to the EU.. the US says its a US company and those taxes should be paid to the US. Apple holds it in Ireland saying it pays Ireland so doesn't need to pay EU or US... Pretty big legal mess.

I think the right way to go about it is to give the company notice that they need to pay taxes going forward because they will start enforcing this now... not just throw down the bill and ask for back taxes.
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      08-31-2016, 08:17 PM   #21
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It's interesting that all profits from European sales were recorded in Ireland where they paid almost non-existent taxes. I'd like to record my income under a similar deal!
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      08-31-2016, 09:10 PM   #22
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Reading the paper today saw this -
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/n...hers/89586822/

Quote:
The EU set off on its three-year probe of tax practices because, it says, tax deals like the one Apple experienced in Ireland put other companies at an unfair disadvantage, harming EU taxpayers and violating the economic union's rules on "state aid."

"Member states cannot give unfair tax benefits to selected companies," said EC Commissioner Margrethe Vestager on Tuesday.

Ireland has disputed the EU's findings and says it hasn't done tax deals.

According to the commission, Apple booked most of its product sales made in Europe, the Middle East, Africa and India through two Irish subsidiaries. It was able to avoid paying Ireland's 12.5% tax rate, which is already lower than elsewhere in Europe, by allocating most of those European profits to a "head office" located in no country. The result: a tax rate of 0.005% in 2014.

The country and others have been willing to agree to such slim tax rates to lure Apple and others to their cities, where they act as a hub for sought-after high-tech jobs.
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