[AK 335i]

why the hate.. it's a competition pushing the platform further. soon we may know the limits and then see good/better options for building the motors. I'm of no camp but yet I share in the bounties of all of their victories whether it be Ptf/bms/Vishnu/Vargas/ETC. instead of bit Ching why don't you guys learn something and/or suggest things instead of crying foul play at every chance you get. Crap like this makes me Almost want to fire my custom 6466 car up soon and then close my build threads on both forums.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by smi1gj

why the hate.. it's a competition pushing the platform further. soon we may know the limits and then see good/better options for building the motors. I'm of no camp but yet I share in the bounties of all of their victories whether it be Ptf/bms/Vishnu/Vargas/ETC. instead of bit Ching why don't you guys learn something and/or suggest things instead of crying foul play at every chance you get. Crap like this makes me Almost want to fire my custom 6466 car up soon and then close my build threads on both forums.

What hate? its not possible to want to see two competitors running the same data set without hating? Competition is about measuring things the same, one lane in the 100 yard dash doesn't get to be 95 yards long. Seems this site is real quick to yell hate & troll when someone asks question about how something was done or why it was done that way.

Maybe its just a lot of vicarious living on the part of people who want X horsepower bragging rights for the 9x. Example” well yeah my car only has 300HP but it I just added this equipment it’s a 700HP car” even if its something that have no means to ever do.

[AK 335i]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

What hate? its not possible to want to see two competitors running the same data set without hating? Competition is about measuring things the same, one lane in the 100 yard dash doesn't get to be 95 yards long. Seems this site is real quick to yell hate & troll when someone asks question about how something was done or why it was done that way.

Maybe its just a lot of vicarious living on the part of people who want X horsepower bragging rights for the 9x. Example” well yeah my car only has 300HP but it I just added this equipment it’s a 700HP car” even if its something that have no means to ever do.

or example : some guy ran 11.9 335is with bms flash only on rfts and I happen to have a similar setup so all else is fail and inferior.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Actually, its just 12.5 without a BMS flash & I have Conti DW's as has been reported by me Its also been stated its as far as I am interested in going with the car. See its all about being as accurate as you can.

If I was going to live vicariously with a BMW I would post FBO 335 11.1's since none of those mods are outside my range to get if I wanted them.

Also said if I was still interested in going to the track on a regular bases I would have bought a Corvette Z06 & not wasted any money on a poor drag race platform like the BMW.

The 335is a fun street car with an occasional Drag day thrown in but not a really good car to campaign. I have not yet installed the JB4 on the 135is because its still in break-in mode but will most likely take it to Rockingham to see what it does later this summer. It will be another DD replacing the 330.

Good luck with your build.

[richpike]

Originally Posted by smi1gj

why the hate.. it's a competition pushing the platform further. soon we may know the limits and then see good/better options for building the motors. I'm of no camp but yet I share in the bounties of all of their victories whether it be Ptf/bms/Vishnu/Vargas/ETC. instead of bit Ching why don't you guys learn something and/or suggest things instead of crying foul play at every chance you get. Crap like this makes me Almost want to fire my custom 6466 car up soon and then close my build threads on both forums.

I hope this wasn't directed at me, because nothing I said was an attack. If I wanted to attack I would have changed my quote to:

There are lies, damn lies and Vishnu Marketing.

But that wasn't my point. I'm very excited to see both vendors pushing the platform, as we all are, but if a smoothing factor had been applied to that dyno, none of this would even be being discussed because it wouldn't have hit 700HP. Or if Vargas had used zero smoothing it likely would have been over 700HP earlier and I would be writing that same quote, but about Vargas instead of Vishnu.

Like I said, this is either marketing at its best or its worst depending on what side you are on. That has nothing to do with how great it is to see our platform being pushed.

-Rich

[Dave W.]

Love the dyno chart, Shiv! That's a very broad and smooth powerband. Can't wait to see what's next!

[pwr hungry]

Originally Posted by Presidio335xi

Go to the website. Everything is outlined pretty clearly.

Link please? Because all i see is vff600 and 700...neither of which are the 6466.

[Dave W.]

You guys getting pissed about the smoothing factor need to realize that the smoothing factor can also be used to hide a bad tune. By setting smoothing to zero Shiv is showing it all, and frankly I'm impressed by how smooth the power curve looks without any filtering whatsoever. I'm glad that people in this community are gradually learning about the smaller details that go into a good tune, so here's a question for you. Why would a vendor use a high level of Correction Factor?

[AK 335i]

you would be better served asking for a large soda around here

[richpike]

Originally Posted by Dave W.

You guys getting pissed about the smoothing factor need to realize that the smoothing factor can also be used to hide a bad tune. By setting smoothing to zero Shiv is showing it all, and frankly I'm impressed by how smooth the power curve looks without any filtering whatsoever. I'm glad that people in this community are gradually learning about the smaller details that go into a good tune, so here's a question for you. Why would a vendor use a high level of Correction Factor?

I didn't get pissed. That is the problem with forums, emails, etc. It is very difficult to understand what a person is trying to get across. So let me state it more clearly:

1. This entire thread was made to say Vishnu was the first to break 700WHP (which is great).

Unfortunately, it required putting averaging on zero. If you average 10 and 8, you don't get 10. There was a reason it was done on zero smoothing and that reason is called marketing. I'm totally fine with that (and certainly not pissed), but I do think it is important to point out that this post, in and of itself, was not really advancing the platform, it was a marketing post with the statistics skewed in Vishnu's favor

2. By saying "pissed" you assume I don't like Vishnu.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm really excited to see this race heating up and wish all parties involved the best. In the end, there is nothing but upside from my perspective. But I'll take real R&D over marketing fluff any day of the week. Vargas could have probably posted a 0-smoothing log to show peak power over 700WHP too and claimed the first to break 700HP. In the end they didn't. Maybe that was because they didn't want to appear to be skewing the results in their favor, or maybe using averaging hid a problem they have in their curve. Or maybe they just aren't as savvy at marketing as Vishnu. I don't know.

-Rich

BTW - one thing to add. The simple way to fix this would be for both vendors to post 0-smoothing and 5-smoothing graphs. Then we can do an apples to apples compare. And I also agree that the curve on Vishnu's 0-smoothing looks great. Almost looks smoothed even though we know it isn't.

[lennon31987]

nice work Vishnu, really pushing the envelope on this motor, Have you broken one down yet and checked the rods? with that amount of TQ gotta believe they are starting to bend.

[Wescuddles]

Originally Posted by richpike

I didn't get pissed. That is the problem with forums, emails, etc. It is very difficult to understand what a person is trying to get across. So let me state it more clearly:

1. This entire thread was made to say Vishnu was the first to break 700WHP (which is great).

Unfortunately, it required putting averaging on zero. If you average 10 and 8, you don't get 10. There was a reason it was done on zero smoothing and that reason is called marketing. I'm totally fine with that (and certainly not pissed), but I do think it is important to point out that this post, in and of itself, was not really advancing the platform, it was a marketing post with the statistics skewed in Vishnu's favor

2. By saying "pissed" you assume I don't like Vishnu.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm really excited to see this race heating up and wish all parties involved the best. In the end, there is nothing but upside from my perspective. But I'll take real R&D over marketing fluff any day of the week. Vargas could have probably posted a 0-smoothing log to show peak power over 700WHP too and claimed the first to break 700HP. In the end they didn't. Maybe that was because they didn't want to appear to be skewing the results in their favor, or maybe using averaging hid a problem they have in their curve. Or maybe they just aren't as savvy at marketing as Vishnu. I don't know.

-Rich

BTW - one thing to add. The simple way to fix this would be for both vendors to post 0-smoothing and 5-smoothing graphs. Then we can do an apples to apples compare. And I also agree that the curve on Vishnu's 0-smoothing looks great. Almost looks smoothed even though we know it isn't.

Well said

[iDrivino]

Good grief, talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees...
Great job Shiv and FFtec, and congrats CaptainInsano!

[kentgbr]

Originally Posted by richpike

I didn't get pissed. That is the problem with forums, emails, etc. It is very difficult to understand what a person is trying to get across. So let me state it more clearly:

1. This entire thread was made to say Vishnu was the first to break 700WHP (which is great).

Unfortunately, it required putting averaging on zero. If you average 10 and 8, you don't get 10. There was a reason it was done on zero smoothing and that reason is called marketing. I'm totally fine with that (and certainly not pissed), but I do think it is important to point out that this post, in and of itself, was not really advancing the platform, it was a marketing post with the statistics skewed in Vishnu's favor

-Rich

Posting raw data is not skewing anything, it's the exact opposite as no statistical analysis is performed. It's full disclosure of the testing and it makes no sense to challenge it on that basis. Filtering or smoothing data removes information and could be used to hide bad results. Potential customers would be wise to ask vendors for zero smoothing in their graphs, instead of complaining when it isn't performed.

[335iseb]

Once again, the man, the legend, the pioneer, the Shivster!! If it wasn't for this guy the n54 platform would still be running around 400whp. And here he is once again being the 1st of many accomplishments and innovations. I knew it was only a matter of time before he'd figure out the fueling and push this thing to it's limits. Now Shiv, push beyond.

[Rob@RBTurbo]

+1. It's amazing how these groups form where from vendor A all is taken at face value and vendor B it's never ending criticizing. Case in point if smoothing is set to 5 and still over 700 you think it's going to be over? What next? If it makes no discernible difference is your campaign then over?

Personally I could give no care if smoothing makes it 698rwhp or 712rwhp. Who cares? It certainly would not make or break my interest in a purchase- it's a dyno number for crying out loud.

Again congrats to all parties for pushing the platform to uncharted areas- now it's time to start seeing some real world performance data (traps and 60-130s)!!

Rob

Originally Posted by iDrivino

Good grief, talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees...
Great job Shiv and FFtec, and congrats CaptainInsano!

[OpenFlash]

Definitely some sour grapes (or lack of understanding) going on here. A couple of you guys are focusing on the lack of artificial smoothing and think that it will drop power a "few hp" (it only drops it by 1.5whp). And instead of asking me to add a smoothen to my graph, you should ask Vargas to remove theirs. It's artificial after all. You want to see actual, raw data, no? If so, you should also be focusing on uncorrected WHP numbers. This is the power that the car actually put down without ANY add-on correction. Of course, our competition may not like that because it raises power by several WHP (700whp becomes 708whp)

And no, 700whp isn't the highest run we did that day (neither is 715whp FWIW). But sometimes you leave the bigger guns for only when you need it.

shiv

[jpsimon]

Originally Posted by kentgbr

Posting raw data is not skewing anything, it's the exact opposite as no statistical analysis is performed. It's full disclosure of the testing and it makes no sense to challenge it on that basis. Filtering or smoothing data removes information and could be used to hide bad results. Potential customers would be wise to ask vendors for zero smoothing in their graphs, instead of complaining when it isn't performed.

+1

no matter what, people are going to hate. it's to be expected and straight up comical. Here are the 2 possible outcomes from people who are here just to argue:

A. "SMOOTHING 0? WHY WOULD YOU PROVIDE US WITH RAW DATA WHICH IS MORE VALUABLE?!? USE SMOOTHING 5!!!"
B. "SMOOTHING 5? WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO HIDE?!? SHOW US THE RAW DATA!!!!"

rinse and repeat.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by jpsimon

+1

no matter what, people are going to hate. it's to be expected and straight up comical. Here are the 2 possible outcomes from people who are here just to argue:

A. "SMOOTHING 0? WHY WOULD YOU PROVIDE US WITH RAW DATA WHICH IS MORE VALUABLE?!? USE SMOOTHING 5!!!"
B. "SMOOTHING 5? WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO HIDE?!? SHOW US THE RAW DATA!!!!"

rinse and repeat.

I think it's hilarious. And I predict it's only going to get funnier from now on.

[jpsimon]

no doubt

[marv85]

So it is safe now to run 91 oct with no meth huh? EGT data from Vargas definitely helped

Either way, I'm happy for CaptainInsano

[mithiral67]

shiv, you're a weird duck with some high HP n54s.