[porscheneer]

Being BMW enthusiast’s site there’s a lot of discussion on handling, I would expect nothing less, but there is a very diverse automotive backgrounds amongst us.

I read statement like “the e90 has NO body roll” my first instinct is , if you can’t feel the body roll you’re not taking the corner fast enough! Or the comment was out of emotional patronage for a substantial purchase . All BMW drivers are not a “track” kind of guy, neither are Porsche drivers.

The subject has much to do with previously discussed topics and in short angular momentum and coefficient of friction. Let’s take this case: You had a hard mount suspension with no role at all and a great CG. If you took a corner fast enough, eventually you would run out of contact patch friction on the tires and skid. Although good cornering that case would not be ideal because the drivability would feel similar to a colonoscopy on the daily commute.

The reason why an EVO or an STI will spank any e90 is because of dynamic all wheel drive. And they can also blow our doors off straight-line with a 2.0 liter rice cooker The EVO / STI have found a pseudo loop hole in conventional automotive physics redefining what is possible by even professional suspension tuning.

Although the system is complex it can be easily explained like this. The system constantly monitors which wheels are getting the best bite and redirect the power from the ones that aren’t, whether that be Cross Car or For Aft. So when after you run out of body roll and contact friction you can still power thru a corner on three wheels.

Don’t be offended thay can spank an e90, I would rather congratulate them on the accomplishment. Lets be honest there doing it to Lamborghini on the track, and last I checked they cost ten times what an e90 does.

Top Gear STI VS.Lambo

I know it’s a humbling experience I learnt it the hard way in my 996. I have a designer that works for me with an STI and we swapped cars for the day and when we both returned the keys we said “Dude that car was awesome” and laughed. I guess he enjoyed the looks and I loved the performance.

I hate my wife’s A4 or as I refer to it “the Mouth”, it sucks on corners and straight-line but it’s a more comfortable ride in cruise control on a straight boring stretch of road than the ZSP. And there are days when you’re on bumpy roads you wish you had the old man’s caddy for that stretch of road. Is it treason to have a varying automotive opinion? Or just an open minded perspective, and a passion for cars. I prefer not to let my purchase cloud my technical judgment, whether it’s the STI or a Veyron every respectable car has something to offer.

That being said, an ideal case would be to have a harmonious balance for your individual taste between; Body roll/suspension comfort, suspension performance. And the E90 is award winning for that. I enjoy it more than the 996 during the week but on the weekends it’s a different story.

Just my humble opinion.

[KL2DC]

Great Post

[GoBonesGo]

Good post (though only BMW fanboys think they can outgun or outrace or outcross every other car on the road and nothing you can say will convince them otherwise).

The video you linked to was interesting to watch, but didn't really do much for your argument, as it focused on a version of the Evo that most of us will never actually see. It wasn't the $30,000 Evo that the kid down the block has - it was the $80,000+ FQ400.

What the E90 excels at is balance. Not just in driving dynamics, but in sport/luxury and performance/ride quality. I can drive it very fast without breaking any ribs. Then when I'm in the mood for a more casual ride I can call my wife over the handsfree blutooth system and listen to the satellite radio. When it's time for service, BMW will call me over the SOS system. All with my two daughters in the back seat (except the fast driving part)

You're trying to convince us that the E90 can be outperformed. I'll concede the point.

My 330i is the best car I've ever owned. It's not the most luxurious or the fastest car on the road, but it does everything I want it to very well. That's why I love it.

[porscheneer]

Originally Posted by G35_2_330

Good post (though only BMW fanboys think they can outgun or outrace or outcross every other car on the road and nothing you can say will convince them otherwise).

The video you linked to was interesting to watch, but didn't really do much for your argument, as it focused on a version of the Evo that most of us will never actually see. It wasn't the $30,000 Evo that the kid down the block has - it was the $80,000+ FQ400.

Why is it that the fan boys are so blinded? And for the most part I agree with your opinion The clip was to broaden the fan boy’s horizons. FQ 400 is a special case I agree, however performance wise a base STI will spank most cars at a fraction of there cost. Most people have not even test driven these cars yet have a host of theories and comments... I would suggest take a test drive! It will give you an appreciation of the engineering that is out there.

And after all that being said and done I still chose the E90. I don’t regret the E90 in the least, it fits my application perfect.
I don’t have any kids yet but if I do soon, I’m sure I will love it even more. Untill then

[porscheneer]

Originally Posted by KL2DC

Great Post

Thanx guy for some reason I could not view your garage?

[akhbhaat]

Dynamic AWD shouldn't offer much of an advantage to a skilled driver on a dry course. Regardless of how the power is being distributed, using the throttle in the midst of cornering is wasting traction which should be used to handle the cornering forces. I can see a slight advantage on corner exit; that's about it.

Though I still have little doubt that an Evo/STI would eat the E90 on the track without even breaking a sweat. Though that is due in part to the weak engines currently in the E90.

[Vanilla Sky]

in about a week, when my e90 is delivered to my dealer... i'll have both

[timzerofive]

Here's body roll for ya. I think I was going about 55 doing a 180 turn during a slalom run. There's roll, but I couldn't feel it.

additon: DTC completely off, slight wheel slide, I think I was pushing it pretty hard.

[shimshimhada]

lol yeah, I laughed at the no body-roll comment too. I know the limits of my car; I wish that everyone did though.

[mikenuts]

i came to this forum from evolutionm.net...i was dead set on an evo for about 2 years. But, like you stated above, the e90 represents the best of both worlds in one beautiful package. I can enjoy a spirited drive on backroads by myself---and on the weekends take girls out in luxury and style.

[Laplacian]

Well, I'm assuming this thread may be aimed at me. I thought I made it clear that IMO the E90 had undetectable body roll in regular driving whereas the Audi had a very detectable body roll. This was my observation during my test drive. Only a car with no suspension has zero body roll. Please don't imply that I said something else.

Do you disagree that the E90 has significantly less body roll than the A4? If so, then you can continue to flame me if you like. I fully concede that the Audi has a more comfortable ride whereas the E90 sport is definitely more rigid. I am not a BMW fanboy. Like all of you, I had the opportunity to buy the A4 (or G35 or IS) but I chose the E90. I already justified my decision to get one before I plunked down the cash. I'm not trying to justify it afterward.

If you look at timzerofive's E90, it really has very little body roll based on the situation (180 degree turn at 55mph, according to him).

I do not know the limits of my car, not even close. Most drivers do not and most people on this forum probably do not. Unlike you, I have not been fortunate enough to drive a Porsche or any other high performance car for an extended period of time. I am 29 and this my first luxury/performance car and I'm still learning. I would very much like to take a driving course where the instructor encourages you to push your car to the limits. If anyone wants to recommend a good one in So. Cal., I'm all ears.

[porscheneer]

Originally Posted by akhbhaat

Dynamic AWD shouldn't offer much of an advantage to a skilled driver on a dry course.

The guy in the lamborgini was the touring champ and the track was dry

[porscheneer]

Originally Posted by mikenuts

i came to this forum from evolutionm.net...i was dead set on an evo for about 2 years. But, like you stated above, the e90 represents the best of both worlds in one beautiful package. I can enjoy a spirited drive on backroads by myself---and on the weekends take girls out in luxury and style.

Good choice

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by Laplacian

Well, I'm assuming this thread may be aimed at me. I thought I made it clear that IMO the E90 had undetectable body roll in regular driving whereas the Audi had a very detectable body roll. This was my observation during my test drive. Only a car with no suspension has zero body roll. Please don't imply that I said something else.

Do you disagree that the E90 has significantly less body roll than the A4? If so, then you can continue to flame me if you like. I fully concede that the Audi has a more comfortable ride whereas the E90 sport is definitely more rigid. I am not a BMW fanboy. Like all of you, I had the opportunity to buy the A4 (or G35 or IS) but I chose the E90. I already justified my decision to get one before I plunked down the cash. I'm not trying to justify it afterward.

If you look at timzerofive's E90, it really has very little body roll based on the situation (180 degree turn at 55mph, according to him).

I do not know the limits of my car, not even close. Most drivers do not and most people on this forum probably do not. Unlike you, I have not been fortunate enough to drive a Porsche or any other high performance car for an extended period of time. I am 29 and this my first luxury/performance car and I'm still learning. I would very much like to take a driving course where the instructor encourages you to push your car to the limits. If anyone wants to recommend a good one in So. Cal., I'm all ears.

Don't worry about it, no one's flaming you. I like reading posts out of context on purpose anyway. BMW does have its share of fanboys though.

[mikenuts]

the lamborghini is also all wheel drive...

[porscheneer]

Originally Posted by Vanilla Sky

in about a week, when my e90 is delivered to my dealer... i'll have both

Great, so you will be keeping the E90 clean when it rains and getting down and dirty otherwise.

[porscheneer]

Originally Posted by timzerofive

Here's body roll for ya. I think I was going about 55 doing a 180 turn during a slalom run. There's roll, but I couldn't feel it.

additon: DTC completely off, slight wheel slide, I think I was pushing it pretty hard.

Sweet !

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by mikenuts

the lamborghini is also all wheel drive...

I think it depends on the track though, Top Gear's airfield is a pretty tight little track. Also, the Evo is an easier car to drive than the Murcielago on its limits.

[porscheneer]

Originally Posted by mikenuts

the lamborghini is also all wheel drive...

Fixed or locked all wheel drive like the porsche not dynamic

[shimshimhada]

RWD > AWD

Trade your Turbo in for a GT2.

[porscheneer]

Originally Posted by Laplacian

Well, I'm assuming this thread may be aimed at me. I thought I made it clear that IMO the E90 had undetectable body roll in regular driving whereas the Audi had a very detectable body roll. This was my observation during my test drive. Only a car with no suspension has zero body roll. Please don't imply that I said something else.

Do you disagree that the E90 has significantly less body roll than the A4? .

The thread was not intended to flog anyone, if it was it would not have started a new thread and would have also dropped names. And the issue was not significantly less body roll it was “No body roll”. You should be able to perceive body roll (inertial shift) on any corner over a few miles an hour. So don’t take it personal. And no worries I’m 28 and not a fanboy either this is my first BMW.

[younghov85]

I think simply put that the BMW 3-series, E90, is the best package when it comes to luxury, performance, and bang for buck. If you look at what yout getting for the amount you paid for it, there will be NO car on the market that will come close. Period.