[BC4J]

You may like this stuff:

I know I did. BTW - is all Hans Zimmer's recent music just a variation on Gladiator? Does sound good though, even on my Dell speakers!

[vivekk]

Originally Posted by alcook

Cheers mate.

If you need someone to 'carry your bags................'

I'll bear that in mind.

I was at the Bristol Show last year & of all the companies displaying their wares, there was one that truly stood out- Wilson Benesch.

I spoke to Craig Milnes about his & his wife's company & it was fascinating to hear how they managed to create one of Sheffield's most beautiful exports- the Trinity loudspeakers.

They had a pair of Square Twos & Torus 'subs' set-up in an AV demo in the Conservatory & the sound really was quite spectacular.

Although this has gone a little off-topic for the OP, I think you need to hear some good demos of different multi-channel poweramp setups, before you can really decide on what you think is best for you.

Viv

[medrep]

Hi sorry for the late replies, have been away......

Thanks for the advice.....

Wow Viv thats some nice cyrus gear, I have the DVD6, CD8 and AV8. Its all running into B&W speakers, Chord Odyssey/Chorus cabling and a Pioneer 508XD plasma, sitting on stands unique racks like yours....

So do you suggest the mono x may be the wrong type of amp for av? I was considering x3 mono x for front channels, and maybe a x power or smart for rears?

I was waiting to buy the new denon bd player, but got the PS3 in the interim. I am so amazed by this machine I may just save my money and not bother. The picture qaulity is fantastic, and on the pioneer i havent seen much better. I feel the surround sound side of things may be the advancement im looking for though with something like the denon, will need a comparison.

I will def take a look at the rotels, Krell is bit of an M3 for me, top of the list but probably never going to happen......

I am hopefully going to the bristol show this year, usually go on my own as my wife almost died of boredom last time. May see you there if your around, I can pick your brains then........

[vivekk]

Originally Posted by medrep

..Wow Viv thats some nice cyrus gear, I have the DVD6, CD8 and AV8. Its all running into B&W speakers, Chord Odyssey/Chorus cabling and a Pioneer 508XD plasma, sitting on stands unique racks like yours....So do you suggest the mono x may be the wrong type of amp for av? I was considering x3 mono x for front channels, and maybe a x power or smart for rears?...I am hopefully going to the bristol show this year, usually go on my own as my wife almost died of boredom last time. May see you there if your around, I can pick your brains then........

Thanks.

I'm currently running the old Discmaster & Dacmaster combo (PSX-R'd) into the Pre vs2 (PSX-R'd), which is feeding 4x Mono X power amps.
I use Nordost Blue Heaven & Red Dawn flatline interconnects & speaker cable.



I keep telling myself I need to put the old Mission 754F5s to one side & try out the likes of some Proac Studio 140s, D15s or Wilson Benesch Square Twos & up the source equipment to the CD Xt SE feeding a DAC X, or DAC XP, which would mean finishing with the Pre vs2.
It's a tough life, having to make choices like this.

Based on my own experience, I think Mono X power amps will give you a very fast, tight & perhaps 'overly-expensive' sound for an AV setup.
They work very, very well, but they don't forgive a poor pre-amp & source signal.

If I were in a similar situation, & were deciding specifically on Cyrus power amps, I'd demo a set of 8 Powers & X Powers (due to their upgradability).

As for the Bristol Show, I'll be in Bristol from the Friday night to the Sunday morning & will be at the show all day Saturday, without the wife.
I'll be speaking the Pete Bartlett about the Cyrus equipment they'll be taking down to Bristol, so if you need any info, just let me know, ok.

It'd be good to meet up with you at the show to talk 'audiophilia'.

All the best.


Viv

[willhollin]

Originally Posted by vivekk

It'd be good to meet up with you at the show to talk 'audiophilia'.

Dirty, dirty man.

[vivekk]

Originally Posted by willhollin

Dirty, dirty man.

That's audiophilia, Will.

Viv

[medrep]

Great, cheers Viv. I bet x4 mono X's sound a little special.......?

Thanks for the heads up, maybe i'll hang on a bit?

Speak to you closer to the time!

[Zk1]

what about mcintosh, i love the look of their kit. wilson benesch = carbon fibre gurus

[vivekk]

Originally Posted by medrep

Great, cheers Viv. I bet x4 mono X's sound a little special.......?

Thanks for the heads up, maybe i'll hang on a bit?

Speak to you closer to the time!

If you aren't in a particular hurry to buy right now, then I'd wait until you listen to a few set-ups, including those at the Bristol Show.

Yes, 4 Mono X power amps do sound very nice, especially when partnered some nice source & speaker equipment.

Let me know what you're upto, nearer the time.

Viv

[gIzzE]

I heard the new Audiolab powers the other day. They're crap!!
Seriously, they are as harsh and sharp sounding as the Tag stuff was, horrid, horrid sounding stuff.

And the Rotel stuff has always been pants, even some of the integrated amps sounded better than the Rotels.


Go used with Power amps, for around the same money you can get amps from Meridian, Plinius, Chord, Cinepro, Krell, Bryston, Balanced Audio Technology etc. etc.
They don't date and they don't really improve much.

I sold my Classé CAV-180 to a mate a year ago as I fancied a change and have regretted it ever since, I let it go for £1500 and the new one is £5500.

I have to say I really like the Cyrus stuff, it has a nice weighty sound to it and never sounds shrill, and they are great prices too.

The other really stunning buy out there is the Parasound amps, I have had a 2205, 1205 and the 855 and all were stunning, the 2205 can be bought used for around £700 now.

Good place to search some proper amps from....

http://www.adverts.hififorsale.com/home.asp



Here is a Classé CAV-500, originally these were £6500 but I bet you could get that for £1500 no problem.
It makes the Rotel and Audiolabs sound like toys.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Classe-CAV-500...1%7C240%3A1318

[medrep]

Holy crap Gizze that Classe amp weighs 140lb!! It looks the absolute bollocks, I spent a good 30mins googling that last night, but came to the conclusion I just couldnt fit it anywhere? I couldnt see how old the amp was though, im guessing early 2000? You have got me thinking on that level now, but without a demo im shopping blind?

Viv, sorry to bang on, but I have the option right now of buying a single Mono X for £700, 2nd hand, 6mth warranty left. Then possibly x2 brand new Mono X's from Moorgate (reprocessed) brand new with warranty £1599. That just leaves me with getting some form of rear cyrus amp...?

Eventually (when prices come down) a top processor like Arcam etc, and something like the denon bd player. Ill also add to the cyrus 2ch side with kit i.e. new pre amp etc. Im trying to acheive the best compromise between 2ch and AV. You appear to be a cyrus expert, do you think this is the best way to go............?

Ive always had my heart set on cyrus amps, but after hearing some peoples opinions and advice (mostly your fault Gizze ) im not so confident, and 2-3k is a lot of wonga for me.

Example is the new Arcam AVR600, £2500ish, supposed to be the bomb? But vs a great processor and mono x's........?

[gIzzE]

How many channels are you after? I have some good contacts with a certain distributer of high end products and may be able to get you a good deal on something.

[medrep]

Wow!

Ideally 5 channel? I had never considered a multi channel amp until now so im not up to speed as to whats out there.

The issue that I have when we gutted the house, I buried all my chord cabling into the walls, and like a spanner left myself short so the kit cannot stray too far or too low from where the rack is situated. This would cause me a problem with something like the the classe amp as the rack may not take the weight and size in the center if the rack?

What are your thoughts.....

[gIzzE]

I will ask him what is about.

[Zk1]

oo00h like the 700 cent, and cm or 600 floor standers, av pre CYRUS ?

[vivekk]

Originally Posted by medrep

...Viv, sorry to bang on, but I have the option right now of buying a single Mono X for £700, 2nd hand, 6mth warranty left. Then possibly x2 brand new Mono X's from Moorgate (reprocessed) brand new with warranty £1599. That just leaves me with getting some form of rear cyrus amp...?

Eventually (when prices come down) a top processor like Arcam etc, and something like the denon bd player. Ill also add to the cyrus 2ch side with kit i.e. new pre amp etc. Im trying to acheive the best compromise between 2ch and AV. You appear to be a cyrus expert, do you think this is the best way to go............?

Ive always had my heart set on cyrus amps, but after hearing some peoples opinions and advice (mostly your fault Gizze ) im not so confident, and 2-3k is a lot of wonga for me.

Example is the new Arcam AVR600, £2500ish, supposed to be the bomb? But vs a great processor and mono x's........?

To be honest with you, I wouldn't go buying any poweramps until you've actually given them a listen & decided which YOU think sound the best to YOU.

I can bang on about the fantastic quality of 4 or more Cyrus Mono Xs, but if they don't sound right to YOU, with your equipment, then they just aren't going to be worth buying.

The Arcam AVR600 will be on demo at Bristol, as will a lot of other AV receivers & multi-channel processors / poweramps, including the Cyrus stuff, so it may be better for you if you just wait to have a listen to a few setups before 'jumping the gun'.

Personally, I would go for mono poweramps as far as you can afford to spend. You could go for the likes of the the 8 Powers or X Powers & upgrade them later to monos, & use them in an audio set-up, but it will cost more overall. There's certainly no problem using a stereo poweramp to drive the rear speakers & you could upgrade it to a monobloc later.

It really depends on what your current & future plans are. If you do intend using a pre/power amp set-up to drive a pair of bi-ampable speakers in the future, then, in my personal opinion, 4 x mono amps is the only way to go.

So, just to sum up, don't go spending your money just yet- patience will reward you.

Viv

[willhollin]

The Yoda of Home Cinema Viv is.

[vivekk]

Originally Posted by willhollin

The Yoda of Home Cinema Viv is.

Cyrus audiophile I be, Will.

Viv

[vivekk]

Originally Posted by vivekk

..I'll be speaking the Pete Bartlett about the Cyrus equipment they'll be taking down to Bristol, so if you need any info, just let me know, ok..

Just been on the phone to Pete Bartlett about Cyrus' presence in Bristol next weekend.

They'll be showcasing some new pre-amplification equipment, of which they'd like my views, but I can't say any more about it.

Viv

[medrep]

My god what a spooky coincidence. Ive just been looking for this thread to bump, only to find youve just bumped it back to the first page, lol!

Just to update really, ive finally purchased the kit, and audio excellence are goint to set up and calibrate at my home as per the deal, sometime next week?

In the end went with the new Rotel 1570, 1575 amp, and the Denon 3800BDCI player. Had a good deal, and managed to get the deal done before the new price rises, the denon blu ray player has now gone up to £1999!!!

I was extremely happy with the home demo, but used the denon 2500 transport during home demo. I went with higher model 3800BDCI in the end due to it having superior SD and BD playback, as well as the alleged improved sound qaulity improvement. Im a little nervous to say the least having not seen it in the flesh.........

I really seriously considered the mono x amps, but as you rightly said viv, listen with your own ears, and I was extremely happy with the Rotel result.

I am now looking at turning the main room into more of a dedicated HC room, lights, sound proofing etc. Looks a bit of a minefield to get right, but fun all the same.

The 2channel performance of the rotel, imo, was much better than the cyrus AV8, which I and maybe you would be shocked about Viv,

I am a happy, albeit less poorer, bunny. But i'm like a small child now and cannot wait for it to be installed.

If anyone has any experience of having their kit ISF calibrated please let me know, as im also considering this?

Pics to follow asap.

Thanks again for all the advice.

NB, Viv, see you at the show, let me know where youll be. Ill be there on sat early.............

[gIzzE]

I wouldn't pay the extra for the 3800, many are saying it is not quite as good as the transport but obviously does the decoding if your amp/processor can't, and does it very well.

I would save yourself a grand there.

[medrep]

If anyone is interested, here is a copy of my post in a different forum of my home demo and comparisons of PS3 vs competition and the new HD sound formats.

If your not as sad as me,which your probably not, ignore..........

".......Ok, after a long night of fosters scuba and relentless testing, my 'impartial mate' and I concluded the following....(apologies for the lack of audiophile vocabulary)

Im not going to claim to be an expert, far from it, but I have a good pair of eyes and ears and a 2nd opinion helping me..........

Test DVD's:
Black Hawk Down SD and BD
Master and Commander SD and BD
Pirates of the Caribbean x2 copies of SD version
Earth BD

(NOTE:everything was tested via plain 5.1 DD/DTS at this point, and with PS3)

The Rotel processor has superior processing to AV8 (no surprise there) - Dialogue crisper, steering more involving. (although this was using the Rotel 5x250 amp?) No shame on the AV8, I still think it awesome value for money and considoring todays 2nd hand prices.

The Rotel amp appeared to have a smoother sound to the nads, but would play louder with less distortion, also very transparent.

The two combined using the PS3 appeared to give a slightly brighter sound than the AV8 and nads, but everything appeared more crisp and cleaner sounding than the old set up.

At this point we concluded the rotel set up was superior to my current set up

Onto PQ comparing PS3 and Denon 2500BD

Earth BD - PS3 looked fantastic, my mate (ash) couldnt think it could be bettered, I agreed and felt rather nervous for the denon. Swithing to the denon the differences became apparent.
Chapter 10, where the Shark jumps out of the water, the denon produced deeper blacks, the ocean looked far colder(temp wise), detailed, the foam/water spray would sparkle and you could see the bubbles in the foam of the splash, the PS3 would be more of a mass of white spray?

Pirates - x2 copies of SD version (one in PS3, one in Denon, same chapter, swithing HDMI leads)- upscaling - PS3 looked good, not disapointing at all to us, switch to Denon, again blacks were deeper, slight more detail than PS3, panning also appeared smoother, although we couldnt always agree

Again, we concluded the Denon was superior to the PS3, something which really shocked me, especially as the Rotel was in charge of the overall upscaling to the pioneer.

Onto sound qaulity vs PS3, still plain 5.1/ DD/DTS

Master and Commander - SD - DTS - The sound from the PS3 sounded good, (although I have always thought that the cyrus DVD6 sounded better through the AV8 than the PS3 did?) I have been use to this 'sound' since early summer, but always felt better could be gained, esp coming from the DVD6)
Switch to the denon, what a startling difference, and I mean startling. This is the best way we could describe the differences - the PS3 sounded as if the front x3 speakers were 3m further away from us, and there was very little going on in the rears. The denon sounded like the front x3 were 1m closer! Massive detail in the rears, candles flickering, floorboards creaking, I could go on and on.....When the opening scene kicked in, I have NEVER heard my system sound this good, we both couldnt stop smiling and were in awe. But, this was still plain 5.1 DTS.

Switch to the BD version of master and commander, we both honestly could not see this being bettered, it couldnt???? The BD version was output in DTS Master Audio, and we sat back and listened - we both thought there was a touch more detail, again, greater levels of floorboards creaking, crisper sound. Now, when the ship battle began, we felt it wasnt as loud or involving as the DTS version, but what we appeared to lose in slam we gained in control, imaging, we could now hear the footsteps above our heads and around the room, as opposed to LR/FR/RL etc etc. I wish I had the vocabulary to describe the differences, but they were there.

To conclude on the kit:
Rotel processor - great piece of kit - built well - superb 2ch bypass pre amp.
Crap remote, IR sensor poor, remote has to be pressed right in front of IR to work. Only one HDMI output.
Rotel AMP - Awesome value for money, more than happy with its performance and drives the B&W's well, they work very well with each other. Poor set up for the potential to biamp?

Denon 2500 - literally night and day difference to PS3 for audio. Tried blind testing with each other, but we could tell within seconds of the film showing. Slooooooooow to operate, remote not great. Easy to set up, plug and play. Upscaling was better, but not night and day. Would have been happy with PS3 albeit the sound difference.

On the whole, very happy with the equipment, so happy ive just come back from audio excellence after paying the deposit. I have read online in many places, and via the dealer that prices are to rocket dut to the $ vs £. B&W, rotel, denon etc and more.

I did not go for the denon 2500, because, I went for the denon 3800 Took a gamble as ive never seen it/heard it, and it cost me approx £600 extra, but it has better upscaling again against the 2500, and im happier with this decision.

I ended up spending just over £4k on the whole, saving around £770 with some extra chord HDMI cabling and a few bits and pieces thrown in.

Thanks again for the advice and suggestions. i'm sure there are other options I could have looked at, but this kit suited me performance and budget wise, but most importantly, it made me smile makes me happy!