|
|
|
|
|
|
BMW Garage | BMW Meets | Register | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
>
VK Motorwerks 135/335i Direct Mount Intercooler
|
|
01-20-2009, 09:55 AM | #68 |
Lieutenant Colonel
146
Rep 1,738
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-20-2009, 11:05 AM | #69 | |
******
53
Rep 886
Posts |
Quote:
If I get an aftermarket FMIC with my set up mentioned above, I'll only benefit for reliability and power consistently, but not power as I can't use Stage 3 maps with stock catback? Right?
__________________
Mods: RB turbos, JB4, BMS DCI, Scoops, Forge DVs, ar design catless DPs, Milltek exhaust system, Helix FMIC, Quaife LSD, VK MotorWerks OC Kit, Bilstein B16 PSS10
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-20-2009, 11:26 AM | #70 |
Lieutenant Colonel
146
Rep 1,738
Posts |
Regardless of the stage you run, if you put on a aftermarket FMIC, your IAT will drop effectively dropping the boost since the air will be cooler and more dense. You will then be able to turn up the tq settings and thus make more power. Besides, when you get bored of the power, its always comforting to know you can still upgrade further.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-20-2009, 11:33 AM | #71 |
Captain
207
Rep 602
Posts |
People seem to be missing the Point...
Look at this Image. Look at the Variance ( or the amount of temperature rise over the dyno pull) You can see the stock IC starting to heatsoak as on the last pull the Intake Temperature rose 60 degree's. Now look at the VK IC, less than 6 degree's of temperature rise consistently. Colder Air = Denser Air = More Power = Less Strain on the Turbo's = More Reliability/Repeatability |
Appreciate
0
|
01-20-2009, 11:41 AM | #72 |
1733
Rep 17,960
Posts
Drives: A Lot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2018 Ducati Panigal ... [0.00]
2016 Mazda CX5 [0.00] 2017 Aprilia Tuono ... [0.00] 2019 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 Competi ... [10.00] 2016 Ducati XDiavel S [0.00] 2016 AMG GT S [0.00] 2011 Ferrari 458 It ... [0.00] 2017 Charger Hellcat [0.00] 2015 KTM Super Duke ... [0.00] 2016 KTM RC390 [0.00] |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-20-2009, 12:01 PM | #74 |
Vishnu Powered
68
Rep 2,205
Posts |
I'm on the latest maps and I've bumped UT to 92 on 91oct gas. I am also at higher elevation, so I see less boost then you sea level guys. Just keep an eye on WG DC.
I plan to up a little more to get at least 13.5 - 14psi.
__________________
2008 335xi Sedan | Titanium Silver | Black Dakota
PROcede v5 | Vishnu Exhaust | BMS DCI | AR Catless DPs | Helix FMIC | Stett Charge w/ Tial BOV | MORR VS8s | KWv3 |
Appreciate
0
|
01-20-2009, 02:23 PM | #75 | |
Major
36
Rep 1,467
Posts |
Quote:
See, this seems fishy to me. In 2 cases there is barely a temp rise, and in one case there IS NO TEMP RISE. I can not imagine an IC that is 100% efficient... -scheherazade |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-20-2009, 03:01 PM | #76 |
Samtaro!
121
Rep 2,601
Posts |
You're right... unless there is some sort of active cooling going on... something must have sucked up completely ALL the thermal energy that the turbos transferred into the intake charge.. otherwise the numbers are impossible to achieve...
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-20-2009, 03:15 PM | #77 |
Lieutenant Colonel
146
Rep 1,738
Posts |
You are referring to our second run, here is the datalog from that run:
The runs were done at AMS, we are not affiliated with them, there was no tempering of any kind or any type of spraying. Chris@AMS can verify that. The only explanation I have for the drop in IAT temps may have been the fact the temp was 30F that day. You will see that the temps dropped during the beginning of the run but then rose thereafter. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-20-2009, 03:20 PM | #78 |
1733
Rep 17,960
Posts
Drives: A Lot
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SF Bay, CA
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2018 Ducati Panigal ... [0.00]
2016 Mazda CX5 [0.00] 2017 Aprilia Tuono ... [0.00] 2019 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 Competi ... [10.00] 2016 Ducati XDiavel S [0.00] 2016 AMG GT S [0.00] 2011 Ferrari 458 It ... [0.00] 2017 Charger Hellcat [0.00] 2015 KTM Super Duke ... [0.00] 2016 KTM RC390 [0.00] |
The IAT logs perfectly reasonable to me. A temp drop followed by a temp rise. Very typical of a upgraded FMIC (with more thermal mass than stock).
Shiv |
Appreciate
0
|
01-20-2009, 11:39 PM | #79 |
Second Lieutenant
8
Rep 271
Posts |
Yeah, I see. it’s just weird to me that the car would drop boost. i mean, as I’ve stated
Before. How does the car know how much HP you want? Why does it lower boost. Why Would the HP not just go up. lol, ugg its kind of like, if I got a new exhaust, that was 25% more efficient, would it drop boost to keep the same power? sorry for the Barny |
Appreciate
0
|
01-21-2009, 12:19 AM | #81 | |
Private First Class
9
Rep 168
Posts |
Quote:
Look, basically if the intercooler runs more efficiently (cooler IAT temps) it can produce more power with less boost. Ex: If you car makes 300WHP @ 13psi stock then maybe.... With the aftermarket FMIC and cooler IAT temps you can hit 300WHP @ 11.5PSI You will need to adjust your torque values if you have a procede. You will be able to run a little higher to get your "old" target boost back. That is where your intercooler will show its true gains and beauty. Our cars will drop boost in colder weather just like every other car. They don't need to "work" as hard in cold weather, in warmer weather your putting more stress on your car and all the parts because obviously everything will run hotter. Bottom line is the intercooler works and is one hell of an investment. Also trying to show dyno #'s for the HP junkies with a FMIC upgrade on this forum is hard to do. Drive a car with an FMIC and you'll see the big gains up top when an normal FMIC would have insanely high IATS. Forget the HP numbers for a minute and just look at Vince's IAT information. Here is some information found on Wikipedia. Hope this helps people understand things a little bit better. "As well as allowing a greater volume of air to be admitted to an engine, intercoolers have a key role in controlling the internal temperatures in a turbocharged engine. When fitted with a turbo (as with any form of supercharging), the engine's specific power is increased, leading to higher combustion and exhaust temperatures. The exhaust gases passing through the turbine section of the turbocharger are usually around 450 °C (840 °F), but can be as high as 650 °C (1200 °F) under extreme conditions. This heat passes through the turbocharger unit and contributes to the heating of the air being compressed in the compressor section of the turbo. If left uncooled this hot air enters the engine, further increasing internal temperatures. This leads to a build up of heat that will eventually stabilise, but this may be at temperatures in excess of the engine's design limits- 'hot spots' at the piston crown or exhaust valve can cause warping or cracking of these components. This effect is especially found in modified or tuned engines running at very high specific power outputs. An efficient intercooler removes heat from the air in the induction system, preventing the cyclic heat build-up via the turbocharger, allowing higher power outputs to be achieved without damage." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-21-2009, 12:20 AM | #82 |
Private First Class
9
Rep 168
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-21-2009, 12:26 AM | #83 | |
Samtaro!
121
Rep 2,601
Posts |
Quote:
I think we both understood IAT start and IAT end to mean temperature of the air being taken in, measured at the air filter (IAT start), then measured again past the intercooler or near the throttle body (IAT end). Where is this IAT being measured, and why does it drop then rise?
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-21-2009, 08:46 AM | #84 | |
Private First Class
9
Rep 168
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-21-2009, 09:25 AM | #85 |
Lieutenant
37
Rep 471
Posts |
ok...... first.. I ordered one... i have no doubt it's worth it..etc... I'm not questioning that...
But.. what I don't understand is HOW Vince ended up with lower boost ... the car did that on it's own... As someone else mentioned... HOW did the car know ? Same with hot/cold weather... How does the car change boost... With V3 ... and torque settings set at say ...90 ... i thought that defined boost to be a certain value (i don't know what it is but i thought it was a constant) How is the car/v3 adjusting on it's own... to magically keep almost the same power... how does it know ?? |
Appreciate
0
|
01-21-2009, 09:45 AM | #86 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
146
Rep 1,738
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-21-2009, 09:55 AM | #87 | |
Modder Raider
753
Rep 8,633
Posts
Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surf City, HB
|
It's what others have said but I'll say it again.
More boost does not always mean more power. I have proved this with other dynos that I've done in the past. Cooler intake temps equal more power, so it's obvious that the VK Motorwerks IC lowered the intake air temps so the turbos didn't have to work as hard. Quote:
__________________
e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan
e90 335i--SOLD Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-21-2009, 10:13 AM | #88 |
Major General
307
Rep 5,175
Posts |
IAT boost decay should dictate that colder IATs will run less boost because the oxygen content is much higher. Think of it like this... the same volume of air now contains more oxygen because the density has changed due to the colder air entering the engine. That means if boost is maintained then you will go lean because of the intercooler. To maintain the A/F ratios, I suspect the DME is lowering boost to keep things safe in its mind rather than increasing fuel to compensate.
|
Appreciate
0
|
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|