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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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C&D says E90 > F30
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10-05-2012, 01:29 PM | #67 |
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A 4-banger? You think that is what people want for a car that starts for nearly $40k? Lol. Puhlease. To the average person that drives their car in D and smashes the gas on the highway they end up at a relative fast speed quickly. To an enthusiast or racer, the actual numbers matter. The normal consumer only cares about the end result, reaching highway speed.
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10-05-2012, 03:47 PM | #68 | ||
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It's pretty simple to me. Most customers want two main things from an engine, assuming it has no other glaring flaws, output and fuel economy. The N20 seems to be pretty good on both counts. |
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10-05-2012, 05:00 PM | #69 |
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Mitsubishi Evos, Wrx Stis, and Golf R's are all 4 banger engines that can go very fast in a straight line and around corners.
I think many longtime enthusiasts are lamenting the loss of the bigger type engines with their smooth power delivery and sonorous sounds, and, in their sadness, confuse that nostalgia with actual performance numbers. Some people want a 6 -8 -12 cylinder engine because that, in and of itself, denotes luxury/sportiness/etc. It's all in the branding and how such engines have been traditionally used, and many people buy into it and can't change with the times.
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10-05-2012, 05:14 PM | #70 | |
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Average person, they don't care what the hell the type of engine it is as long as it gets them to highway speed effectively. Enthusiasts and racers, want a good engine. NA I6s are great performance motors before the age of turbos. BMWs dominated motorsports with the NA I6, they don't produce a lot of negative torque at high revs so it is great for racing. That said, adding a turbo to an engine opens a whole new world of power. Turbo 4s are popular because they are cheap to manufacture, but there is a point where an I4 can only produce so much power per limits of the engine displacement where I6, V6, V8, etc come into play. All the major car companies are going to turbo 4s because of fuel, emissions, and production costs. When the N55, a much less expensive engine than the N54, came out BMW did not decrease the price of a 335i or any other vehicle powered by it. Gross profit stayed the same, for the analogy it did, but cost of goods sold went down. |
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10-05-2012, 06:10 PM | #72 | |||
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I don't understand. When it comes to what most people look for in an engine, gas mileage is a great one.
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The motor in an Evo can make a ton more power than any NA I6 in a street car, so no need to worry about limits yet. And there are other reasons to go with a turbo 4 over an I6 other than costs. An I4 can be packaged more efficiently, has a more useful torque curve for everyday driving, can get better gas mileage, etc. |
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10-06-2012, 06:03 PM | #73 |
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Those 2.0 are a joke. I got my C&D... here are interesting figures;
2013 ATS L4 2.0T 272HP / 2013 328i L4 2.0T 240HP / 2006 330i I6 3.0 255HP All manual. Weight 3477lbs / 3390lbs / 3458lbs On 1200miles+ 19mpg / 23mpg / 25mpg 0-60mph 6.3s / 5.6s / 5.9s 5-60mph 7.4s / 6.6s / 6.5s Those 2.0T don't perform any better the larger NA engines of yore not even direct injected, neither are they significantly lighter. |
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10-06-2012, 09:49 PM | #74 |
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I'm pretty certain the F30 has hydraulic-assisted steering too. It's definitely not full electric steering as you're alluding; I'm pretty sure it still has a steering shaft. It may be an electric power steering pump, but it is still hydraulic regardless of the power souce (mechanical vs electrical). As for mechanical vs electrical in 'feel'; that's just BS because there's still a steering shaft, it just comes down how the assist is programmed. My S2000 had an electric powersteering pump as well (less drag on the engine), I don't see any BMWs touching it in regards to handling and steering feel and that car came out in 1999/2000
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'08 E90 w/ just boltons
'09 Z4 sDrive35i w/ just boltons Last edited by Sered; 10-06-2012 at 09:55 PM.. |
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10-06-2012, 09:57 PM | #75 | |
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'08 E90 w/ just boltons
'09 Z4 sDrive35i w/ just boltons |
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10-06-2012, 10:30 PM | #76 | |
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Try a 335i E90 with Active Steering and then tell me it's a better car.
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'09 LCI 335i E90 in BSM over Oyster Dakota Leather, Manual, Sport, Navigation, Individual Audiophile, Executive, Active Steering, JB4 + MHD BEF, 335is Exhaust w/AWE Tuning Tips, AFE DCI, Euro Tails/Fog Light Switch, various painted and other OEM + mods, 19" M5 reps summer
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10-06-2012, 11:16 PM | #77 |
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10-07-2012, 12:02 AM | #78 | |
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Still going to get a LS3 C6? |
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10-07-2012, 12:24 AM | #79 |
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I test drove an F30 328i a few months back and was pretty amazed with it. The best part of the entire car was how BMW integrated the cup holders into the center console like a normal car. For me, this means more coin storage. The only thing I did not like about it was the fact that I am now forced to get iDrive (which I could deal with). I say this because it's not even touch screen which is worthless to me. The interior felt brighter than my E90 which I think is because my car has tinted windows so that's probably an unfair assessment.
The N20 is an amazing engine. The only way I would get an F30 328i is new or CPO. I like to work on my cars (my E90 has a thick folder of records from just me now) but it seems that BMW just made the entry level 3 Series that much more expensive to maintain if there is no warranty. My only gripe with the N20 is the fact that it sounds like a diesel when it first starts up (reminds me of valve tick I had in an E28 535i). I like the exterior but it looks kind of weird with the way the headlights and grill are on the front.
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10-07-2012, 08:57 AM | #80 | |
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Oh I don't give a crap about better gas mileage. If I did I would have bought a Smart car. Last edited by BMWs4ever; 10-07-2012 at 09:03 AM.. |
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10-07-2012, 09:55 AM | #81 | |
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For one, I really like the new front end of the F30, agreed, I never liked so much the e90 look anyway, so for me the F30 is a good bowl of fresh air. But I am less than convinced by the plastic center console, it looks cheap compared to the e90. The rest of the interior is great, but really that's a disgrace. On the engine side, I'd like to see a NA I6 again, but that's not gonna happen with fuel prices now. Sad but true. For electric steering, the vague feel is not here to stay. Porsche sorted out the matter last year. While the 911 electric steering introduced 2 years ago received bad mouthing, the refresh on the Boxter received good reception, and everybody agrees that the electric steering feels just right. Seems to be a matter of adjustement, just like SMG used to be crappy and is now tuned properly. |
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10-07-2012, 10:55 AM | #82 | |
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That's like your HR telling you that they're going to increase health care premiums, but also figuring out how to communicate with you in order to keep you healthier, in your interest, not theirs. Think, people. If you don't base the E9x > Fxx on simply driving the two cars, just how in the world do you say that the steel subframe of the Fxx is better than the aluminum subframe of the E9x? No marketing research can draw that conclusion. Steel = cost savings. |
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10-07-2012, 12:39 PM | #83 |
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Last edited by avocet; 10-07-2012 at 01:03 PM.. |
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10-07-2012, 02:59 PM | #84 | |
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10-08-2012, 01:45 AM | #85 |
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The premise is not faulty at all. Of course maximizing profit is the ultimate goal, but even the highest margin product makes you no profit if no one wants to buy it.
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10-08-2012, 09:04 AM | #86 | |
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10-08-2012, 10:29 AM | #88 | |
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