[benzo23]

5k for me

[CJ421]

BMW wouldn't recommend something unsafe for your car.

Driving normally (not tracking it, tons of cold weather driving, etc) ... I don't see the point of doing oil changes frequently.

[ddtully@]

Guys - are you seeing that much savings by going to independents over the dealer ?

[2M]

Originally Posted by RicheyBMW

Nope. They still said at 15k should be my first oil change. One of them also told me only M3 cars get oil changes earlier than that. I will prob do my first at 7,500 and repeat.

That's best for you because you do them both at a 7,500 mile interval. If you wanted to do like 5,000 miles it means you would have to pay outta pocket twice before you got your BMW maintenance change, which would be dumb. 7,500 is completely normal man don't worry. It's synthetic oil so there no problem.

[str8nm]

Originally Posted by bookman2

It is too long, preposterously so. I would change the oil after 5k and roughly at this interval for the remainder of your ownership. BMW has gone for the cheaper option of skimping on the service requirements of vehicles that they don't expect customers to keep beyond 100K on the odometer. This is the rationale behind their ludicrous "lifetime" oil fill for the gearbox and differential reservoirs as well. I'll believe in the lifetime oil gambit for these items when BMW offers a lifetime warrantee. Get yourself ahold of a copy of Mike Miller's "Old School Maintenance Schedule" for BMW's and put your mind at ease.

Your evidence is anecdotal. BMW knows better than anyone how their engines should be properly serviced. They use 100% synthetic oil designed to last 15 K. Old wives' tales about cars are rampant on this forum. Welcome to 21st century engineering.

[ceb]

Originally Posted by str8nm

Your evidence is anecdotal. BMW knows better than anyone how their engines should be properly serviced. They use 100% synthetic oil designed to last 15 K. Old wives' tales about cars are rampant on this forum. Welcome to 21st century engineering.

30k km intervals have been the norm in Europe since the mid 90's. That's about 18k miles. Due to European environmental laws, most German dealers will refuse to do an early oil change - regardless of how much you want to pay.

In this case, the manufacturer knows best. There is no way to prove that early oil changes prolong the life of your car.

[m6pwr]

Re the comment, "Welcome to 21st century engineering" (and no disrespect to Mike Miller) here are a couple of sources that indicate that extended drain intervals are perfectly ok, and that in the case of the initial drain of factory fill, you might want to stick with the oem's recommendation.

http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-4133

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-oil-analysis/

The pertinent part of the BITOG article is -

"Many modern engines have unique lubricants as their Factory fill and in some cases a special specification lubricant many be needed for the first 100k miles or so. This is for specific “bedding in” reasons and often depends on the engine’s design and certainly on its “wear face” metallurgy! People that chose to ignore the Manufacturer’s advice concerning the first oil change period and the lubricant to be used then are IMO quite foolhardy – especially if they intend to keep their vehicle for many years."

The author, Doug Hilliary is well know to people on the BITOG oil forum. He is a professional lubricants engineer and has a special affinity for some of the oils used in BMWs having developed (when he worked for Castrol) Castrol RS 10w60, which became the Castrol TWS used in M cars. He works now for Exxon/Mobil. He regularly attends many of the races in Europe where he gets to meet and exchange information with colleagues and friends that work for the European auto mfrs and lubr mfrs. I tend to give his advice maybe more credence than opinions of others.

[BMCoupe_782]

I do mine every 7.5K. Probably no need to do it but I do it anyway.

[Glim]

Oil change threads have beaten the dead horse to a fine powder.

Change your oil, don't change your oil, whatever makes you happy.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by 3284me

Is there any difference starting a car that has sat overnight with all the oil returning to the pan verses a car completely drained of oil, refilled, and started? In other words is there any additional lag time that fresh oil needs to circulate properly in an engine causing wear? I remember in the old days some auto manufactures would specify filling the oil filter prior to instalation to get the oil to circulate faster.

With the way modern oil pumps work that is no longer an issue..and new oil will always circulate better and more quickly than older oil.

The only time you should really drain the oil as opposed to letting it sit in the pan is if the car is gonna be kept in long term storage..and by long term I dont mean just months...i mean years..oil will sludge as it sits in the pan over extended time

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by CJ421

BMW wouldn't recommend something unsafe for your car.

Driving normally (not tracking it, tons of cold weather driving, etc) ... I don't see the point of doing oil changes frequently.

The point is that frequent oil changes will keep you engine cleaner and running healthier..if you want to believe BMW...then go w/ God

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by str8nm

Your evidence is anecdotal. BMW knows better than anyone how their engines should be properly serviced. They use 100% synthetic oil designed to last 15 K. Old wives' tales about cars are rampant on this forum. Welcome to 21st century engineering.

And they also tell you that your gear box and differential fluid are lifetime fluids..and that spark plugs should be changed every 60K..do you also belive that?...

You guys wanna be sheep and follow BMW rhoteric on servicing you car be my guest..those who want a car in top shape will know better...even if there is still some miles to go... its always better to change earlier rather than when its too late.

[Glim]

Baaaaaah

Now you are dragging trans and diff fluids into the thread. When will the madness end?

Here is a pic of my manual trans and diff fluid after 50k miles, diff looks pretty clean, trans I am going to change after another 25k miles:

Trans and diff at 50k miles

[tibra1]

I brought that up to point out that its not Father knows best here..BMW lifetime fluids..15K oil changes..etc..cheap insurance and peace of mind to replace fluids..even if it "looks" clean.

[Glim]

I agree, it's cheap insurance, I'm giving you a hard time.

I am old school, I change my oil at 7000 miles, trans and diff at 50k, brake and PS yearly and coolant at 3yrs.

[bookman2]

Originally Posted by str8nm

Your evidence is anecdotal. BMW knows better than anyone how their engines should be properly serviced. They use 100% synthetic oil designed to last 15 K. Old wives' tales about cars are rampant on this forum. Welcome to 21st century engineering.

Get back to me after you've managed 500k with these ludicrous intervals then we'll chat.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by bookman2

Get back to me after you've managed 500k with these ludicrous intervals then we'll chat.

+1..there are some than just exercise common sense..and some that accept the word of BMW as Gospel..

[Glim]

Trying to imagine How BMW lifetime fill transmission fluid would look at 500,000.. Something like a mud pie with rocks in it.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by bookman2

Get back to me after you've managed 500k with these ludicrous intervals then we'll chat.

Have you actually kept a car for 500,000 miles? Outside of the one guy with the 35-year old Volvo and the other guy with the 40-year old Mercedes, and the guy with the 500,000 mile Chevy pickup (all car-commericals over the years) have you ever really heard of a car lasting 500,000 miles?

Do you think that some of the other expensive (non-routine maintenace) parts of the car may have failed by then? At what point would you consider the car not economically to repair? At 500,000 miles, even a wheel bearing replacement would render the car not economical to repair. Cars do not last forever.

I kept my '89 E30 to 260,000 miles. It took 18 years to get to that mileage. By the time 18 years went by my life style had changed and transportation needs changed, and although the E30 is a classic BMW, it was time for a change. I've not added it up to the penny, but I probably spent upwards near $18,000 in maintenance and repair costs - and I do all my own work; so double that for someone who has a shop maintain their car.

As far as the E9x, the owner's manual says to change the diff and trans fluid at 100,000 miles. I've followed the BMW maintenance schedule for my car, which has just passed over 153,000 in 5 years and 4 months (oil changes every 17,500 miles on average, and one round of diff and trans fluid changes, and coolant at 98,000). The parts that have failed so far are: A/C compressor, thermostat, and water pump (the drivers seat needs some reconditioning now and the paint on the center console where the sealtbelt buckle rubs is has worn off). I run my car almost 40,000 miles a year, so I'll rack up 250,000 in 8 years. By that time I'll be looking forward to a new car. My E90 will be worth probably $1,500 - $2,000, so even a minor issue will make the car not worth repairing. If the motor dies at 250,000 (which it probably won't - hopefully the VANOS and Valvetronic systems go that long) I'll have "lost" at most $2,000. If I changed the oil at half the 17,000 mile interval (thinking it will help the engine last longer) it would cost me an additional $1,100 in oil maintenance cost. For someone who pays for a shop to change their oil, the number is more like $1,800, so at best it is a break-even proposition. Investing that $1,800 over 8 years is a much better use of that money.

So throwing in a life span of 500,000 miles is just a ridiculous argument. No car is worth keeping for 500,000 miles.

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by tibra1

And they also tell you ... that spark plugs should be changed every 60K..do you also belive that?...

Actually BMW does not specify 60k for plugs for a 3 series. It is 45k for the 335i and has been 100k for non-turbo models ever since the first US E46.

Do I believe it? I change plugs when there is evidence they need changing and since my '99 328i was running very strongly on the OEM plugs at 97,000 miles, they remained in the car.

Tom

[Glim]

The great unknown, maintenance, time and money.

We do not know if changing fluids early is prolonging the life of the part, I believe it does, so I am willing to do it.

If your car is paid off, and if early changes cost $2,000 over the life of the car and this has prolonged it's use by 12 months, how much in car payments has that saved you?

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

Actually BMW does not specify 60k for plugs for a 3 series. It is 45k for the 335i and has been 100k for non-turbo models ever since the first US E46.

Do I believe it? I change plugs when there is evidence they need changing and since my '99 328i was running very strongly on the OEM plugs at 97,000 miles, they remained in the car.

Tom

Well Im not willing to wait till I limp or misfire to decide its time to change the plugs..w stg 2 tune and FBO..i change every 20K..$60 for sparkplugs isnt going to make or break me