[Cyprio]

Okay thanks for this.

Let's now see what the dealer offers me for my 2010 335d.

[MEGA]

Originally Posted by Cyprio

Okay thanks for this.

Let's now see what the dealer offers me for my 2010 335d.

Let me know what they offer you please fella (via PM). Is it LCI with 313s?

[MB London]

For what its worth I have just put some money down on 13 month old 520d M. It’s fairly well spec’d 19’ rims pro nav and all the other basic requirements.

If you go through the BMW website and build this very car to the exact spec it comes out at a little over £40K, it has 7K miles on the clock and is coming from a main dealer and I have paid £26K for it. Not interested in the argument about engine size etc, I could have bought an M5 if I really wanted but this car is just what I am after and ticks all the boxes, additionally the f10 in M guise is a looker.

My point is that nearly new has to be the way forward

[Nick the Greek]

Gizzie. Drive the c class Merc and then the F30. You will understand why the BMW is more expensive. The Merc is an old car due to be replaced....

[gIzzE]

I have driven both, and I agree, the F30 is a notch up in many areas on the C Class, where as the facelifted C Class was a notch up on the E90 imho.

However, I was talking about the E Class, which imho was ahead of the 5 series in many areas, and quite a step up from the C Class.
However, there were one or two niggles, instrument cluster a bit high, blocked by steering wheel when the wheel was in the right position, and the adaptive steering was too light in the centre position. Both of which has apparently been addressed with the new model.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by MB London

For what its worth I have just put some money down on 13 month old 520d M. It’s fairly well spec’d 19’ rims pro nav and all the other basic requirements.

If you go through the BMW website and build this very car to the exact spec it comes out at a little over £40K, it has 7K miles on the clock and is coming from a main dealer and I have paid £26K for it. Not interested in the argument about engine size etc, I could have bought an M5 if I really wanted but this car is just what I am after and ticks all the boxes, additionally the f10 in M guise is a looker.

My point is that nearly new has to be the way forward

Agreed, new cars are for demonstration vehicles, companies who can write it off against profit and get the vat back, contract hire companies, hire firms and morons.

That last bit may be a bit harsh, but you have got to seriously want a strange spec. to be prepared to loose the 35% a new car dives in year one to buy new, seriously loaded to the point money doesn't matter or a bit dumb.

A new car is only a new car for the first second of ownership.

[mob17]

So the enjoyment of speccing a new car and having it delivered is not a good enough reason? If anyone can find me a very low mileage F10 with VDC, visual package, prof media, HK audio, 18" rims and a few other options, i would certainly consider that seriously.

All this talk is making me think twice about getting a new car

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by mob17

So the enjoyment of speccing a new car and having it delivered is not a good enough reason?

Absolutely not.

You are talking about a 520d as you are doing lots of motorway journeys so want the economy? Then makes zero sense to me to buy new.
The depreciation means it may as well be doing 10mpg if you do 30k miles a year.

Have you actually sat down and worked out what a new 320d will cost over 3 years in fuel, servicing, insurance, tax, and depreciation, compared with a year old 530d with all the options on it, or even compared with contract hiring an M5?

I think you might be quite surprised.

In real world driving there is 6mpg between a 520d and 530d, and that is going from a 520d to a 530d GT which is a much bigger car, difference between a 520d and 530d both F10's will be about 4mpg I reckon.

61 plate 530d M-Sport
20k miles

http://www.approved.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/...price_ASC|list

19" M Double-spoke style 351M alloy whee
Black panel display. full
Dark Ash-grain wood. high-gloss
Head-up Display
Headlight wash
M rear spoiler
Media package - BMW Professional
Model designation deletion
Sport automatic transmission
Sun protection glass
Xenon headlights

Bet you would get that for £31k

That will cost you around £15k over 3 years if you do 18k miles a year in depreciation, compared with around £20k on a new 520d.

Fuel will be around £9534 at 38mpg on the 530d and £8000 for the 520d at 43mpg.

So do the maths carefully.

I would much rather be in a year old 530d than a brand new 520d.

Buy a year old 520d for £24000 and the 'money saving' side of 4cyl diesel ownership I start to buy, but not a new one!

[gIzzE]

Active Hybrid here....

http://www.approved.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/...price_ASC|list

£28k for a 2012


Cylinders: 6
Output (hp): 340
Max torque (Nm): 450
Fuel type: Petrol
Engine size (Ltr): 3.0

Top speed (mph): 155
0-62 mph (secs): 5.9

Urban mpg: 49.6
Extra Urban mpg: 42.2
Combined mpg: 44.1

18" Streamline style 364 alloy wheels
DAB digital radio
DAB digital radio
Elec Fr Seats + Driver Memory
Ext. mirrors - folding. auto dimming
Extended BMW online
Loudspeaker system - BMW Business
Navigation system Proffesional
Sport automatic transmission
Sport Steering Wheel
Sun protection glass

[Scoot]

I have a friend who has a new 530d and he only gets on average 36 mpg where with my previous 520d I got a standard 43mpg average.

My A8 3.0tdi quattro is only averaging 32mpg but I'm not sure I would want rwd now for a work vehicle. It's saved me a couple of times in the recent snow.

[mob17]

I totally agree that the engine should come first. I went to an older 335D from a new 320D and love it!!

But the car isn't for me. If it was i'd do exactly as you say. But you have given me lots of things to pass on which will hopefully help us. Also we hadn't even considered the active hybrid, specs look amazing.

I guess its just the fact that we will be speccing everything to our desire and knowing that the car is our creation. But i do see your viewpoint and will need to have a real think about it and do some figures on year old cars too.

There's certainly no rush to order so if we go for a year old one, we might havevto wait a while to find the perfect one.

[mob17]

The requirements are a 520D SE with sport auto, VDC, Visibility package, Prof Media, HK audio, black leather with black gloss trim, shadowline exterior trim, sport seats, lumbar support, ambient lighting, tyre pressure monitor and black panel display. Its hard to find one with all of this

If there is a 2012 one with these specs it would be silly not to try it, and i'm sure we will if we find one!

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by mob17

The requirements are a 520D SE with sport auto, VDC, Visibility package, Prof Media, HK audio, black leather with black gloss trim, shadowline exterior trim, sport seats, lumbar support, ambient lighting, tyre pressure monitor and black panel display. Its hard to find one with all of this

If there is a 2012 one with these specs it would be silly not to try it, and i'm sure we will if we find one!

More chance of finding that lot on a 530d though, and in 2 - 3 years time it will have depreciated far less. There is a reason no one specs a 4cyl diesel with all those options.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

Agreed, new cars are for demonstration vehicles, companies who can write it off against profit and get the vat back, contract hire companies, hire firms and morons.

That last bit may be a bit harsh, but you have got to seriously want a strange spec. to be prepared to loose the 35% a new car dives in year one to buy new, seriously loaded to the point money doesn't matter or a bit dumb.

A new car is only a new car for the first second of ownership.

With respect, I can't agree at all. In the age of 640Ds for £4xx, SLKs for £2xx, C63s for £4xx and M3s for £4xx per month with 3-6 month deposits, many used cars have become very expensive by comparison.

Of course there are also some real bargains amongst selected used cars, the BMW M5 and Z4M being 2 examples of a lot of car for the money.

These days, finance is the only way to buy a new car. Look for the following:
- Special offers through brokers and lease companies (main dealers getting rid of excess inventory)
- Low percentage financing (lots of VERY cheap money around these days)
- Manufacturer's discounts
- Dealer contributions
- Pre-registered models (Dealers meeting year-end sales targets)

Follow this with a combination of either low mileage lease agreement plus trade-in, hand back or voluntary termination and its unlikely you'll find a cheaper way to run a car. Even running an older car for cash isn't that economical when you consider the worse consumption and higher tax, extended warranty or repair costs, required maintenance, tyres, often (perversely) higher insurance and higher financing interest.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by SteveC

With respect, I can't agree at all. In the age of 640Ds for £4xx, SLKs for £2xx, C63s for £4xx and M3s for £4xx per month with 3-6 month deposits, many used cars have become very expensive by comparison.

Of course there are also some real bargains amongst selected used cars, the BMW M5 and Z4M being 2 examples of a lot of car for the money.

These days, finance is the only way to buy a new car. Look for the following:
- Special offers through brokers and lease companies (main dealers getting rid of excess inventory)
- Low percentage financing (lots of VERY cheap money around these days)
- Manufacturer's discounts
- Dealer contributions
- Pre-registered models (Dealers meeting year-end sales targets)

Follow this with a combination of either low mileage lease agreement plus trade-in, hand back or voluntary termination and its unlikely you'll find a cheaper way to run a car. Even running an older car for cash isn't that economical when you consider the worse consumption and higher tax, extended warranty or repair costs, required maintenance, tyres, often (perversely) higher insurance and higher financing interest.

Hiring a car is very different to buying a new car.
I am a huge fan of hiring a car, as I said above with my examples.

There is however a big difference between buying (whether using cash or finance) and hiring (where the manufacturer gives residuals that are over valued by 100% sometimes).

I will stand by my comment that 'buying' a new car is not the smartest move for the private buyer.

520d sport is a perfect example, a few essential otpions and it is £40,000.
A year later and it is £25000. Two years later and you are getting £17000 back, a loss of £23000.
Try and get a balloon of say £15k after 3 years, it is not happening, at the moment the finance houses have a 520d m-sport auto listed as £9000 at 3 years and 36k miles.
Now, it will be worth £15k or there abouts, so you will get some money back.

But if you buy that £40k car for say £37k and put down £6000 deposit you will have 36 payment of £731 and a balloon of £9000.
So, as long as the car is worth £15k you will get your deposit back and it will have cost you £731x36, so £26000 over 3 years.

If it isn't worth £15k and you have to hand the keys back it will have cost you £32000.




Go and buy that year old one for £25000 and you can put in only £4k and pay £473 a month.

Or, go and hire a new one with media for £399 a month including vat and a much smaller £2000 deposit.



Same with the 6 series, guys were hiring them for under £350 a month!!!
A 640d for £350 a month with just £2000 down compared to £500 a month and £8000 down if you buy it is a no brainer.

As I said, the way car sales and the finance is structured these days means 'buying' new is not the sensible option.
There is the odd exception, buying a Q5 new 3 years ago was wiser than hiring, and........can't think of another one but sure there are others, but it is a rarity.

[SteveC]

'Buying nearly new is the way forward'

I would say "was the way forward"

Today, financing certain selected new cars e.g M3, C63, SLK Diesel, E-Series is probably the most economical motoring available, as long as GAP insurance is part or the deal

Seems like we may be in violent agreement?

[gIzzE]

Financing to me means buying, hiring is where the deals are.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by SteveC

'Why would I want to buy a 1 year old 520d for £4K and £473 per month when I can buy a brand new M3 for substantially less?

The point I was making is that if you are careful in your selection, e.g M3, C63, SLK diesel, E-class etc.) buying new is certainly not for morons

I understand what you are saying with your example of a 520d but that somewhat misses the point I was making, which is not to buy a car that's selling well like a 520d, but to pick one with all sorts of dealer and manufacturer incentives, like an M3 (imminent new model, thirsty engine, high tax), or new cabriolets in December (excess dealer or manufacturer stock).

I agree with that, you have to go for the car that is depreciating the least.



But, you are not buying the M3, you're hiring it, to get the silly deals.
Big difference.

[peterg1965]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

Same with the 6 series, guys were hiring them for under £350 a month!!!
A 640d for £350 a month with just £2000 down compared to £500 a month and £8000 down if you buy it is a no brainer.

.

Were there ever 640d deals for £350/month, or is that before VAT? Could be an SE I suppose, but I thought my deal was in the bracket of being the cheapest available when BMW pushed them in late 2011, early 2012.

I agree re comments about leasing, seems to be the way forward I think, especially for big new cars. Very few PCP deals seem to offer similar value though. The latest Merc GL for £499/month, half the price of a comparable FFRR, with a £10k deposit though, although I suspect discounting could reduce the deposit required.

[gIzzE]

Yeah, £349+vat, that was also 8000 miles pa, however, it was only £10 a month extra to take it up to 10k miles and a customer of mine did it for £380 for 18k miles a year, that was with 6 months down over 24 months.

I don't think leasing works as the deposits are always so high and you never see any back, hiring all the way.

[mob17]

What if the dealer is offering you £5k off and includes servicing, so £35k? Won't buy it cash but will probably go for a PCP deal...

The issue we are having with hiring is that all the cars are bog standard. We don't want that as most of our options are compulsary, especially VDC, which most F10s don't have

[gIzzE]

Have you driven a car with VDC and standard suspension back to back?

It went from a must have to an I'm not bothered when I did.