Ideas on the future of BMW Petrol Engines

Gibbo · 04-12-2009, 12:40 PM

What are people's thoughts on what we are going to see in the next generation 3 series. I have read BMW are looking at turbo's in the 4 cylinder models and the M3 may be going back to a 6 cylinder with twin turbo's.

If this is true will it take out some of the detuned 3 litre vairents or will we end up with maybe a higher perfomance 2.5 litre 6 cylinder instead of a twin turbo 4 cylinder.

My thought's for the european market we may end up with a range something like this with all 4 cylinders aiming at +40mpg <160 (g/km) under the efficient dynamics program.

4 cylinder 2 litre 180 bhp
4 cylinder 2 litre turbo 215bhp
4 cylinder 2 litre twin turbo 250bhp or 6 cylinder 2.5 litre with 250bhp
6 cylinder 3 litre 285bhp
6 cylinder 3 litre twin turbo 340bhp
6 cylinder 3.4litre twin turbo 420bhp M3

Anyone know what is happening or have other idea's?

Bimmer Nerd · 04-12-2009, 02:39 PM

well, they are going to put turbos in the engines to meet the american standards for emissions but lets look beyond 3 series, the M5 and M6 will probably share the same engine and possible have the X5/X6 M engine putting out 50 more bhp then currently. there are going to be few variants for V8's i am sure, but in models such as SAV's or 7 series. there was a post earlier that said that bmw will GENERALLY be concentrating on the 4-6 cylinder engines with turbos as you stated, after the M5/M6 engines are shown i am sure bmw will keep them in there line up for quite a long time.

biscuits · 04-12-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gibbo

6 cylinder 3.4litre twin turbo 420bhp M3

Imagine that bad boy with a remap

PeteJ · 04-12-2009, 03:34 PM

everyone knows diesels are the future...

biscuits · 04-12-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteJ

everyone knows diesels are the future...

It's certainly where all the fuel companies are making their biggest profits

PeteJ · 04-12-2009, 03:40 PM

I oddly enough don't mind the profits to the fuel companies. I'm with J.Clarkson on this subject where for £1/L you get a product that has to be pulled out of the ground, shipped across the world, refined several times and then delivered to a petrol station, it's good value... I hate the fact the our lovely leaders see fit to take half of the £1 in pure tax... Sorry off topic.

willhollin · 04-12-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteJ

I oddly enough don't mind the profits to the fuel companies. I'm with J.Clarkson on this subject where for £1/L you get a product that has to be pulled out of the ground, shipped across the world, refined several times and then delivered to a petrol station, it's good value... I hate the fact the our lovely leaders see fit to take half of the £1 in pure tax... Sorry off topic.

Yeah its cheap in comparison to a pint of beer in the pub.

beemerbird · 04-12-2009, 03:52 PM

Interesting questions Peter and as for the high performance engines, do we look at Audi as an example in the fact they have dropped the V8 and are using a V6 with a supercharger slapped on it creating power and relative fuel economy.

As we all know diesel engines have enjoyed turbo technology for some time now and twin turbos are or appear the way to go. Variable Turbine Geometry allows a much broader torque curve and more flexible powerband than on a single turbo. This technology allows the angle of the compressor's turbine blades to continually adjust. The problem has always been that the higher exhaust gas temperatures created by petrol engines has created the necessity of heat-resistant materials and obviously there is a cost factor here.

The 35i engine has obviously proved that BMW are dabbling seriously with turbine technology for petrol variants and I have a feeling that they will continue to do so. Just a bit of a shame that you can lose a rather tasty exhaust note with a turbo engine and for me Porsche do not and are not producing a sports exhaust for mine. Something to do with the heat created within the exhaust. After market ones are available but then I'd kiss my warranty goodbye.

dxb335d · 04-13-2009, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biscuits

Imagine that bad boy with a remap

They already have (with more tweaks of course) wih the new 750 engine.

400bhp in the 7er and 550 nearly in the X6 M.

but thats a 4.4 twin turbo.

G33 · 04-13-2009, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxb335d

They already have (with more tweaks of course) wih the new 750 engine.

400bhp in the 7er and 550 nearly in the X6 M.

but thats a 4.4 twin turbo.

....or BMW 760Li (V12 Twin Turbo)

6.0l V-12 MSD87-12 544 hp and 553 lb-ft
8-speed automatic
0-60: 4.6s

http://www.7post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249547

BMW Turbo technology is defintely here to stay

Gibbo · 04-13-2009, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G33

....or BMW 760Li (V12 Twin Turbo)

6.0l V-12 MSD87-12 544 hp and 553 lb-ft
8-speed automatic
0-60: 4.6s

http://www.7post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249547

BMW Turbo technology is defintely here to stay

What a beast of an engine.

These twin turbos really produce some serious torque across the rev range.

G33 · 04-13-2009, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gibbo

What a beast of an engine.

These twin turbos really produce some serious torque across the rev range.

monster isnt it!

supposedly gets over 20mpg on the combined cycle....or was that another engine/article i was reading

roofer · 04-13-2009, 08:26 AM

Advances in technology in Turbo's and electronics mean its the only way BMW can go from a commercial aspect. The development required for a NA M engine in relation to product sold is massive, whereas if they can pull a 'line' engine off, wack some turbo's on it, and stick M badges everywhere, theyr're profit margins will increase.

Anyone ever driven a 2002 Turbo? Now that'll wake you up on a wet bend.

DaveC · 04-14-2009, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gibbo

4 cylinder 2 litre 180 bhp
4 cylinder 2 litre turbo 215bhp
4 cylinder 2 litre twin turbo 250bhp or 6 cylinder 2.5 litre with 250bhp
6 cylinder 3 litre 285bhp
6 cylinder 3 litre twin turbo 340bhp
6 cylinder 3.4litre twin turbo 420bhp M3

Seems too many too close to each other. Its hard times for car makers and if you consider they'll also be making a raft of denzils and the odd specialist engine thats a lot of variants. Wouldn't be surprised if we see a midly blown sub 2ltr engine make a reappearance as a base model with less models in between (3 litres is starting to look too big) and more of a gap to the M3 level (current 335s push it far too hard in the product placement slot) so maybe...

1.8 turbo 190bhp
1.8 twin turbo 215bhp
2lt twin turbo 235bhp
6cyl 2.5 twin turbo 280bhp
6cyl 3.0 twin turbo M3 400bhp

That would give them the option of slotting in a midly blown 3ltr below the M3 if they really felt the need.

Is all guesses but thats more what I'd be aiming to do.

04-12-2009, 12:40 PM	#1
Gibbo Colonel 104 Rep 2,292 Posts Drives: Golf Ed35 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South East iTrader: (0)	Ideas on the future of BMW Petrol Engines What are people's thoughts on what we are going to see in the next generation 3 series. I have read BMW are looking at turbo's in the 4 cylinder models and the M3 may be going back to a 6 cylinder with twin turbo's. If this is true will it take out some of the detuned 3 litre vairents or will we end up with maybe a higher perfomance 2.5 litre 6 cylinder instead of a twin turbo 4 cylinder. My thought's for the european market we may end up with a range something like this with all 4 cylinders aiming at +40mpg <160 (g/km) under the efficient dynamics program. 4 cylinder 2 litre 180 bhp 4 cylinder 2 litre turbo 215bhp 4 cylinder 2 litre twin turbo 250bhp or 6 cylinder 2.5 litre with 250bhp 6 cylinder 3 litre 285bhp 6 cylinder 3 litre twin turbo 340bhp 6 cylinder 3.4litre twin turbo 420bhp M3 Anyone know what is happening or have other idea's? __________________ Golf Ed35 Black with - Black Leather
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

04-12-2009, 02:39 PM	#2
Bimmer Nerd Major General 519 Rep 7,789 Posts Drives: 6MT F80 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA iTrader: (12)	well, they are going to put turbos in the engines to meet the american standards for emissions but lets look beyond 3 series, the M5 and M6 will probably share the same engine and possible have the X5/X6 M engine putting out 50 more bhp then currently. there are going to be few variants for V8's i am sure, but in models such as SAV's or 7 series. there was a post earlier that said that bmw will GENERALLY be concentrating on the 4-6 cylinder engines with turbos as you stated, after the M5/M6 engines are shown i am sure bmw will keep them in there line up for quite a long time.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-12-2009, 03:34 PM	#4
PeteJ Diesel Head 12 Rep 550 Posts Drives: 320d M Sport Convertible E93 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Edinburgh iTrader: (0)	everyone knows diesels are the future...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-12-2009, 03:40 PM	#6
PeteJ Diesel Head 12 Rep 550 Posts Drives: 320d M Sport Convertible E93 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Edinburgh iTrader: (0)	I oddly enough don't mind the profits to the fuel companies. I'm with J.Clarkson on this subject where for £1/L you get a product that has to be pulled out of the ground, shipped across the world, refined several times and then delivered to a petrol station, it's good value... I hate the fact the our lovely leaders see fit to take half of the £1 in pure tax... Sorry off topic.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-12-2009, 03:52 PM	#8
beemerbird Major General 172 Rep 7,953 Posts Drives: Merc diesel Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Yorkshire iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 TTRS [9.00] 2007 Audi S5 [0.00] May 2007 Porsche 99 ... [0.00] March 2007 Porsche ... [0.00] Sep. 2007 E92 335d SE [0.00] July 2006 E90 330i ... [0.00]	Interesting questions Peter and as for the high performance engines, do we look at Audi as an example in the fact they have dropped the V8 and are using a V6 with a supercharger slapped on it creating power and relative fuel economy. As we all know diesel engines have enjoyed turbo technology for some time now and twin turbos are or appear the way to go. Variable Turbine Geometry allows a much broader torque curve and more flexible powerband than on a single turbo. This technology allows the angle of the compressor's turbine blades to continually adjust. The problem has always been that the higher exhaust gas temperatures created by petrol engines has created the necessity of heat-resistant materials and obviously there is a cost factor here. The 35i engine has obviously proved that BMW are dabbling seriously with turbine technology for petrol variants and I have a feeling that they will continue to do so. Just a bit of a shame that you can lose a rather tasty exhaust note with a turbo engine and for me Porsche do not and are not producing a sports exhaust for mine. Something to do with the heat created within the exhaust. After market ones are available but then I'd kiss my warranty goodbye.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-13-2009, 08:26 AM	#13
roofer Lieutenant 21 Rep 584 Posts Drives: 335D M Saloon Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Essex iTrader: (0)	Advances in technology in Turbo's and electronics mean its the only way BMW can go from a commercial aspect. The development required for a NA M engine in relation to product sold is massive, whereas if they can pull a 'line' engine off, wack some turbo's on it, and stick M badges everywhere, theyr're profit margins will increase. Anyone ever driven a 2002 Turbo? Now that'll wake you up on a wet bend.
	Appreciate 0 Quote