[jbass524]

Hope this helps others in my situation.

I track around 14 times a year and would love a track car but I love the comfort and refinement of a GT car - read 335 coupe. Also, I really only wanna own 1 car. This could create a conundrum.

As I've gotten to be a better driver some of the street-focused handling personalties of our car got to be a bit frustrating and a little boring when on the track: Wallowing suspension, bit of understeer, brake dive.... Ya'll know what I'm talking about. I want those to go away but I also want to be able to take my girl out w/o sacrificing her comfort.

Researching new suspension for a newb ain't easy but E90post helped a ton. ron************ was great, even though I didn't buy from him. He was thorough in his answers and accommodating in his pricing. Use him if you can. I will.

I was considering KW V3s and PSS9s or 10s. I wasn't thinking about TC Kline because I wanted to keep the total, with install, to 3500.00.

I ended up purchasing TC Kline coilovers and Vorshlag camber plates from Harold at HP Autowerks. I drive with Harold at BMWCCA events and he has a 335 development car so I couldn't imagine a better person to go to. I already have UUC swaybarbarians.

I spent the extra dough and purchased the TC Kline coilovers instead of the others for these reasons (Thank you Economic Stimulus check ;-):

1. All of the streetable BMWs I've driven in on the track that have blown my mind use it.
2. The PSS9 equipped car I've driven had a winding up feeling when entering a turn that I didn't love. I could feel the progressiveness of the springs and I didn't like it. At least I imagined I could feel it.
3. I found in research that Linear springs for the track are superior than progressive. Opinion but the reasoning was far more believable then the progressive reasoning -- to me at least.
4. Harold modifies BMWs for a living and drives quickly at Laguna and Infineon. He also has a 335 and so do I. I also want to drive quickly at Infineon and Laguna. Don't flame me on learning how to drive first. I'm doing that.
5. A close friend who is Star Mazda Series race winner can't say enough about linear springs on the track and TC Kline suspension.
6. A friend and BMW service manager who sells Dinan and is a track junky told me this morning that it's what he would put on his car because it's great on the street but when you adjust the damping it's the setup your BMW wants on the track.
7. I also love that if I wanted even stiffer suspension on the track I can order stiffer springs as replacements. I know this'll probably never happen but I love that I can. Scalable suspension. Cool!

I'm taking it to Bill Arnold (San Rafael, CA) for install, corner balancing and alignment. Harold set me up with all of the settings for camber, caster and height.

I'll let you all know how it feels after Thunderhill on the 26th. I drove there early last month on the new surface so I have a good comparison for lap times and feel.

Cheers!

[leftcoastman]

You'll love it man. I have the same setup, except with the TC Kline camber plates.

You should also nip the heat problem by getting the VK oil cooler. I was running 285-295 with the stock cooler and then 265-270 with the VK cooler, in the same conditions at the same track.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by jbass524

Hope this helps others in my situation.

I track around 14 times a year and would love a track car but I love the comfort and refinement of a GT car - read 335 coupe. Also, I really only wanna own 1 car. This could create a conundrum.

As I've gotten to be a better driver some of the street-focused handling personalties of our car got to be a bit frustrating and a little boring when on the track: Wallowing suspension, bit of understeer, brake dive.... Ya'll know what I'm talking about. I want those to go away but I also want to be able to take my girl out w/o sacrificing her comfort.

Researching new suspension for a newb ain't easy but E90post helped a ton. ron************ was great, even though I didn't buy from him. He was thorough in his answers and accommodating in his pricing. Use him if you can. I will.

I was considering KW V3s and PSS9s or 10s. I wasn't thinking about TC Kline because I wanted to keep the total, with install, to 3500.00.

I ended up purchasing TC Kline coilovers and Vorshlag camber plates from Harold at HP Autowerks. I drive with Harold at BMWCCA events and he has a 335 development car so I couldn't imagine a better person to go to. I already have UUC swaybarbarians.

I spent the extra dough and purchased the TC Kline coilovers instead of the others for these reasons (Thank you Economic Stimulus check ;-):

1. All of the streetable BMWs I've driven in on the track that have blown my mind use it.
2. The PSS9 equipped car I've driven had a winding up feeling when entering a turn that I didn't love. I could feel the progressiveness of the springs and I didn't like it. At least I imagined I could feel it.
3. I found in research that Linear springs for the track are superior than progressive. Opinion but the reasoning was far more believable then the progressive reasoning -- to me at least.
4. Harold modifies BMWs for a living and drives quickly at Laguna and Infineon. He also has a 335 and so do I. I also want to drive quickly at Infineon and Laguna. Don't flame me on learning how to drive first. I'm doing that.
5. A close friend who is Star Mazda Series race winner can't say enough about linear springs on the track and TC Kline suspension.
6. A friend and BMW service manager who sells Dinan and is a track junky told me this morning that it's what he would put on his car because it's great on the street but when you adjust the damping it's the setup your BMW wants on the track.
7. I also love that if I wanted even stiffer suspension on the track I can order stiffer springs as replacements. I know this'll probably never happen but I love that I can. Scalable suspension. Cool!

I'm taking it to Bill Arnold (San Rafael, CA) for install, corner balancing and alignment. Harold set me up with all of the settings for camber, caster and height.

I'll let you all know how it feels after Thunderhill on the 26th. I drove there early last month on the new surface so I have a good comparison for lap times and feel.

Cheers!

Was talking to Bill Arnold at Thunderhill a few weekends ago..nice guy. He repaired one of my engines in my old BMW 325i race car...back in 2001. I trust him for a proper install and track alignment.

[stressdoc]

Great choice.

[fast_lap28]

what spring rates were you recommended to go with a street/track setup to start with? I plan on doing the same and its either TCK or AST coilovers for me...definitely will get the camber plates too! just have to wait till next year.

great choice and good luck out there!

[Ron@Modbargains]

Thanks for the kind words jbass524, and congrats on the new TCKlines

I have some friends who run them on their M3's and they love the setup as well.

If you are heading to Thunderhill, I expect to hear from you about brakes - do flush out your brake fluid with something like Motul's it will help out a lot. When the time comes for brakes let me know be happy to help with questions.

[jbass524]

Originally Posted by fast_lap28

what spring rates were you recommended to go with a street/track setup to start with? I plan on doing the same and its either TCK or AST coilovers for me...definitely will get the camber plates too! just have to wait till next year.

great choice and good luck out there!

I'll let ya'll know what the difference is after T-hill.

This is all from what I remember from our conversation: Harold is right down the street from TC Kline and they tested their suspension on his car. After trying multiple setups they determined that 400 ft., 500 rr. was the best setup. Beyond that you're entering into no-streetable unless all of the roads in your neck of the woods are perfect.

If anyone has insight, please inject now.

Ron, Thanks and I will be contacting regarding OEM rotors all the way around. Do you have them?

[RMA]

I may go with TcKline in the near future...but from my understanding they only have a double adjustable as opposed to a single (which is what I prefer).

[jbass524]

Hey S4to335, I was there. BMWCCA event? After reading your sig I remembered your car. I'll come up and say hi next time I see you.

The new T-Hill was the catalyst that got me to buy the new suspension.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by jbass524

Hey S4to335, I was there. BMWCCA event? After reading your sig I remembered your car. I'll come up and say hi next time I see you.

The new T-Hill was the catalyst that got me to buy the new suspension.

I was having check engine light problems and limp modes in the pm of day two. I did have fun passing like 15 cars in the race school group that one time we instructors got to go out with them. I even have film of this session. Not postable here though. Which car was yours?

[jbass524]

I have a Sparkling Anthracite 335 Coupe. Just LTWs on it...for now!

I never went into limp mode but I did have lay off the aggression midway through the sessions and towards the end. I lease my car and don't wanna buy it so the Oil Cooler option is out of the question. I'll put one on my next 335 -- I'll get another one next Nov. -- that's also supposed to have the dual clutch transmission. I'll probably buy that one.

A little suspension swap with the Oil cooler and I should be set to terrorize plenty of Vettes, Exiges and Evos...as long as they're not good drivers ;-).

I was in the Yellow tent.

I hope to good enough to do the race school next year. That looked like a very cool weekend.

[HP Autosport]

You made the right choice!

[jbass524]

Hey All,

Had everything installed: TC Kline x2 adjustable coilovers, Vorshlag plates, new bushings for UUC Swaybarbarians. Newbs should take this to heart.

I, as a newb, had no idea that this isn't really plug and play and there are infinite adjustments possible. If you choose to have TC Kline suspension installed have someone who is very familiar do it. At least someone you trust; my route.

I used Mellow Motors in Greenbrae. They aren't a performance tuning shop but 1 gentleman there is very savvy in building race cars and getting podiums in some pretty big races. Read lots of experience.

The install wasn't easy as they were unfamiliar with TC Kline and there aren't any instructions. They got it installed and they only charged for half the hours due to this. Give them big props for this. Honorable, considerate and good. I'm in!

BTW. They also replaced bushings in the UUC Swaybarbarians for me along with installing the Vorshlag camber plates.

On top of this they are teaching me about adjustments and suspension. They will make adjustments based on my review after track days. I also get to sit in when corner balancing. It's like having my own race mechanic. Love it!

Harold at HP was great all the way through as remote support from Santa Barbara. All done after the sale. Big props there too.

THE RIDE
I think it is only a little stiffer than stock on the street. Comfort is fine.
The turn in is amazing and grip has increased by at least 10% (seat of the pants impression) with the softest settings on rebound and compression and -1.5 degree camber.

THE LOOK
Let's face it, lower cars look cool. It looks cool.

NOISE
There is a some noise when going slow on rough roads. None on highway or on smoother roads at any speed (duhhh. you all knew that).

THUNDERHILL
Stay tuned. Driving on the 26th. Let's see how much faster I go: 1, 2, 3, 4 ,5 seconds faster per lap? Predictions?

[iheartsole]

nice choice. cant wait to see them on

[stressdoc]

Education: priceless, and fun to boot.

[jbass524]

I drove my car at T-Hill on Friday with the new suspension. Results weren't as favorable as I would like. With that said I still need to get some adjustments done.

I was slower than with my stock suspension.

It felt like I was getting almost no mechanical grip. It was really obvious in the first 6 turns. My car was skating, more in the front than back.

It feels like it's the swaybars. I need to take the tension out of them that was caused by lowering the car 1.5".

I'll let you all know after I drive at Infineon on November 1 and 2. The adjustments will be all done then.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by jbass524

I drove my car at T-Hill on Friday with the new suspension. Results weren't as favorable as I would like. With that said I still need to get some adjustments done.

I was slower than with my stock suspension.

It felt like I was getting almost no mechanical grip. It was really obvious in the first 6 turns. My car was skating, more in the front than back.

It feels like it's the swaybars. I need to take the tension out of them that was caused by lowering the car 1.5".

I'll let you all know after I drive at Infineon on November 1 and 2. The adjustments will be all done then.

The front roll center gets messed up fairly quickly with a drop and sway bars just make it worse. What spring rates are you running and are you using tender springs? I have gone thru this already which took me months to sort out. There is a real narrow window to get this type of setup right.

Orb

[jbass524]

Hey Orb,

Thanks for the info. That sounds like the issue. No grip in front, right?
400 ft. and 500 rr. Not sure about tender springs. They're TCK linear springs. That's all I know.

Lemme know what you think.

jbass524

[Orb]

Originally Posted by jbass524

Hey Orb,

Thanks for the info. That sounds like the issue. No grip in front, right?
400 ft. and 500 rr. Not sure about tender springs. They're TCK linear springs. That's all I know.

Lemme know what you think.

jbass524

I would certainly go with a 350 lb/in springs in the front which is what I'm running but I would try to simulate changes with dampening and tire pressure to validate this as a baseline first. The key thing you really have to pay attention and know if the front is rolling over to much or not, which is step one. You need to be absolutely 100% correct in you assessment! The 1-1/2” drop doesn’t help at all as the front roll center drop like a bomb on the front so the only suggestion I can give you is to bring up the ride height so there only a .75” drop from stock with 13 mm lower in the rear than the front. The car just doesn’t want to set in if there a lack of travel and/or roll. I think this is what you mean by skating. The magic number seems to be about 200 lb/in difference from front to rear with UUC or H&R sway bars since they are the close to the same.

I would try a simple test. Put the rebound to the softest and the compression to 25% from the softest setting front and rear and then do figure 8 in open are at various speeds in a safe location. The goal is to adjust the compression so the car sets in nice and smoothly up until mid corner and you should be using trial braking. Keep compression on the lose side. Once you got something setup for compression then adjust rebound. Put the rebound for the front and rear at 25% from the softest setting and keep increasing the front only until you notice it get better then worse then back off 15%. Up both rebound for front and rear equally and retest. The car should want to have stiffer rebound on the front but don’t over do it or you will go backwards. If you make good progress then soften the front bar to the softest position. Remember, don’t try to make thing perfect….small improvement is your goal because you looking to find the source of the problem.

Rest assured this is all pain in the ass to do and I highly suggest you write some notes down so if it get worse then you can go back to were you think things improved. You will guess wrong often. The hard part is finding out what the real problem is. The easy part is fixing it.

I need a lot more details so don’t go in the wrong direction. Feel free to PM me. I have a flow chart that will help you lot.

Orb

[sambonator]

My TEIN SSP coilovers worked great at the Auto Club Speedway.

7 kgf/mm or 392 lb/in springs in front, and 12 kgf/mm or 671 lb/in springs in the back with stock sway bars. My instructor was impressed with the handling

[stressdoc]

Incredibly useful to have comparative information like this, before and after, with knowledgeable commentators to help figure out what is going on. In my experience, lowering ride height can introduce a lot of new issues for the suspension geometry. Hence my mantra: be careful with aftermarket lowering spring kits, be careful with ...

[jbass524]

Thanks to you all. This is what forums are supposed to be for.

Here's the plan:

• Long time suspension guru to install updates and adjust/corner balance
• Raise car 1/2" inch. This will result in a 1" lower car
• Adjustable end links for rear swaybars to take out preload
• adjust rear bar to full soft to start with
• Fronts already have adjustable links ::thanks UUC::
• Install spring perches newer Konis that I have ::Thanks Harold @ HP for getting these to me ASAP::
• Increase camber in front to -2 degrees

Let's see what that does.

Thoughts?