[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

What was that quote again - something like:

"The government who steals money from John to give to Frank can always count on Frank's vote"?

Probably a strategy right - with more people on welfare (and voting), government would be insane to ignore such a large population if they wish to be re-elected. Not saying that's right of course, simply a smart strategy, albeit it frustrating for everyone who actually contributes to society.

Hey, if voting turned into a priviledge rather than a right, and you took the ability of these welfare recipients to vote away, I'll bet you'd see mass reforms in the welfare programs...its all about which group represents the largest voice.

This reminds me of the book "Starship Troopers", where in the future, suffrage and political franchise are dependent upon serving in the military. Any sort of meritocracy would be hugely unpopular. That being said, there is a rationality to selecting the most experienced, most educated individuals to select our government representatives.

[Echo M3]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I think the difficulty today is it seems more difficult for teenagers to get jobs or parents aren't pushing it. Really, it was those jobs where you learn the value of a dollar doing odd jobs from taking out trash to filing stuff at an accounting firm and working at a gas station.

I'm not sure if that's a shift to making kids competitive for tomorrow. But I think the general waning of parental involvement over the past decade is starting to show the results, entitlement. I think the welfare phones are just the result of a far larger problem and not THE issue.

The issue is the family structure where parents are getting less involved. I saw an FB post about a life preserver. Yeah, it helps but some see it as a replacement for supervision when its not. I don't put any flotation devices on my kids. Another is education. I'm usually the only parent in my daughter's class that regularly talks to the teacher...the teachers have told me so. The teachers tell me about any issues or areas of improvement and then we, the parents, take responsibility in assisting my daughter to improve. Too often parents, from my observations, leave it up to the teacher to do everything for one reason or another.

And I can go on and on with examples of parents (as a whole) passing the buck.

There is no doubt that the loss of a family structure in this country has pushed this country towards an entitlement mentality.

That said, the biggest influence always comes down to economics. Where are the incentives in this country? If you believe you that your income potential is not greater than minimum wage, OR that you cannot earn more than welfare would provide you, your incentive is to steer towards welfare and unemployment benefits. It's quite logical, right? Which would you rather do, work a crummy job or sit at home and receive food stamps and paychecks?

As painful as it might be, this country requires a system of minimal entitlements. Incentives must be in place to reward people who find jobs and work, NOT reward people who sit at home and collect welfare receipts. For example, companies today will match our payments into an IRA account. Why not have the government match each dollar of income earned up to a limit?

[TroyDeJ]

there is no reason for this, you could buy a prepaid phone and minutes for < $50, thats way less than your first mcdonalds paycheck. Will it have unlimited data and unlimited texting? no but you dont need that and can live without it unless you can pay for it yourself. theres no reason i have to pay for it because your too lazy. these people always like to have a sob story but theres plenty of people who have been in the same or worse circumstance and made something out of themselves. YOU ONLY DESRVE TO HAVE WHAT YOU CAN WORK FOR

[UncleWede]

And just to be clear, I am non-partisan

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Echo M3

There is no doubt that the loss of a family structure in this country has pushed this country towards an entitlement mentality.

That said, the biggest influence always comes down to economics. Where are the incentives in this country? If you believe you that your income potential is not greater than minimum wage, OR that you cannot earn more than welfare would provide you, your incentive is to steer towards welfare and unemployment benefits. It's quite logical, right? Which would you rather do, work a crummy job or sit at home and receive food stamps and paychecks?

As painful as it might be, this country requires a system of minimal entitlements. Incentives must be in place to reward people who find jobs and work, NOT reward people who sit at home and collect welfare receipts. For example, companies today will match our payments into an IRA account. Why not have the government match each dollar of income earned up to a limit?

I agree that the government should offer certain necessities when people do run into hard times, no issue with that. The problem is government begets government. I see it everyday and it all comes down to justifying your job and in many cases, growing your area to gain a promotion. For example, if I am overseeing a couple of employees that adminster the food stamp program. How do I gain a promotion? I get more employees underneath me. How do I do that? I increase the workload which drives the requirement for more employees. There is a standard ratio that the federal government uses for supervisory positions. Then supervisors need supervisors. That's how you get to the out of control spending that we have today. I'm sure the state and local level is similar.

If you think those extravagant GSA conferences are the exception, you are sadly mistaken. The GSA used a common loop hole in the authorization and appropriation bills that EVERY gov't agency uses to conduct conferences. Although the GSA example is an extreme case.

[radix]

Originally Posted by BabyrayS2k

My house is being roofed today. Their are six Mexican gentlemen on my roof working hard to make a better life for themselves. With unemployment at over 8% and 1 out of every 7 Americans on food stamps, why is there not one American working with this roofing crew today?

I dunno. You're the boss. Why didn't you hire Americans?

[TroyDeJ]

Originally Posted by radix

I dunno. You're the boss. Why didn't you hire Americans?

because honestly if you hire americans to put a roof on, plan on having it take a few days were as if you hired a company that uses illegal immigrants youll have a new roof within a few hours. its the sad truth. An illegal worker puts a nail through his hand by accident he will wrap it in a shirt and keep working to get your roof done. If a white legal american worker does that the job will be shut down and your roof wont get done until hes feeling 100% better and takes a few rest and recovery days leaving you without a roof. its the sad truth of the american vs. foreign work ethic.

[radix]

Originally Posted by TroyDeJ

because honestly if you hire americans to put a roof on, plan on having it take a few days were as if you hired a company that uses illegal immigrants youll have a new roof within a few hours. its the sad truth. An illegal worker puts a nail through his hand by accident he will wrap it in a shirt and keep working to get your roof done. If a white legal american worker does that the job will be shut down and your roof wont get done until hes feeling 100% better and takes a few rest and recovery days leaving you without a roof. its the sad truth of the american vs. foreign work ethic.

I said American, not white. They could be Mexican-American for all I care. I just think the job should be given to U.S. citizens. BTW, I don't share your pessimism. Find some out of work vets.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by TroyDeJ

because honestly if you hire americans to put a roof on, plan on having it take a few days were as if you hired a company that uses illegal immigrants youll have a new roof within a few hours. its the sad truth. An illegal worker puts a nail through his hand by accident he will wrap it in a shirt and keep working to get your roof done. If a white legal american worker does that the job will be shut down and your roof wont get done until hes feeling 100% better and takes a few rest and recovery days leaving you without a roof. its the sad truth of the american vs. foreign work ethic.

I don't think that's a fair comparison with the nail through the hand. Of course, it is prudent to get medical attention because you have to look at the long term. If your hand gets infected, your happy but then that guy can't potentially work. There's a balance. But I do see the point, need to work to make money.

I came from South Korea about a year and a half ago. A premium is placed on education and social status so that is what EVERY parent is pushing their kids towards. The issue that Korea will run into really quickly is who will run the farms and operate the factories? Korean youth are not very interested in those jobs. What is already happening is they bring in immigrant workers (legal and illegal) to do those jobs.

Kind of what's happening here except it is at a much more accelerated rate. Everyone wants the nice air conditioned office jobs that pay lots of money. I think the different in Korea is the kids bust their ass and get their asses busted to get there. Tons of pressure...might explain why Korea has such a high rate of teen suicide...but I digress. Back on topic.

[BabyrayS2k]

Originally Posted by radix

I dunno. You're the boss. Why didn't you hire Americans?

Stupid question. The Mexicans aren't taking job from Americans you numbskull......there aren't any Americans willing this kind of work anymore. They would rather sit on their asses and collect a check.

[kevinbahnz]

hell no i'm not gonna be up on the roof in the hot sun versus collecting unemployment. unless of course it was a cash paying job..

[BabyrayS2k]

Originally Posted by kevinbahnz

hell no i'm not gonna be up on the roof in the hot sun versus collecting unemployment. unless of course it was a cash paying job..

Your post sums up the entitlement metality and work ethic of this country perfectly.

[radix]

Originally Posted by BabyrayS2k

Stupid question. The Mexicans aren't taking job from Americans you numbskull......there aren't any Americans willing this kind of work anymore. They would rather sit on their asses and collect a check.

I'll ignore the ad hominem because we both know you're wrong. To prove it, I'll wager you any sum you like that I could've found Americans to roof your house for you. Go ahead, name your sum, I'll take all bets.

The fact is you could have used Americans to do the job legally, but you didn't. Instead, you gave the illegally gave the job to the Mexicans. I really don't care about the lawfulness of knowingly hiring illegal labor, but I figured I just point that out anyhow.

Anyways, you clearly don't care about putting Americans to work and will simply do whatever you feel is easiest for you personally. While that bothers me a bit, what bothers me is that you complain about people asking for handouts when your actions clearly indicate that you like taking the easy way out.

I doubt anyone was taking your uppercase complaining seriously anyhow, but just in case, I figured it'd be better to point out that given the choice to hire American or not, you chose not to. Now, please go on whining about the laziness of welfare recipients.

[radix]

Originally Posted by BabyrayS2k

Your post sums up the entitlement metality and work ethic of this country perfectly.

He said he would take the job if you paid him cash. I fail to see what that has to do with "entitlement metality [sic]." He might simply not want to be bothered cashing a check.

[kevinbahnz]

Originally Posted by radix

He said he would take the job if you paid him cash. I fail to see what that has to do with "entitlement metality [sic]." He might simply not want to be bothered cashing a check.

Something like that..

[BabyrayS2k]

Originally Posted by radix

I'll ignore the ad hominem because we both know you're wrong. To prove it, I'll wager you any sum you like that I could've found Americans to roof your house for you. Go ahead, name your sum, I'll take all bets.

The fact is you could have used Americans to do the job legally, but you didn't. Instead, you gave the illegally gave the job to the Mexicans. I really don't care about the lawfulness of knowingly hiring illegal labor, but I figured I just point that out anyhow.

Anyways, you clearly don't care about putting Americans to work and will simply do whatever you feel is easiest for you personally. While that bothers me a bit, what bothers me is that you complain about people asking for handouts when your actions clearly indicate that you like taking the easy way out.

I doubt anyone was taking your uppercase complaining seriously anyhow, but just in case, I figured it'd be better to point out that given the choice to hire American or not, you chose not to. Now, please go on whining about the laziness of welfare recipients.

WTF does "anyways" mean?

Also, you know nothing about this. I didn't hire a Mexican crew to roof my house. You are a smart man so think about this statement before you respond.

Lastly, I have not seen an American crew on a roof in over 10 years anywhere in my part of the country. However, you may very well be correct in saying that they do exist.