[MERLIN335i]

Is it normal these days for printers to charge for producing a proof ?? (offset litho printed wet proof of eight random pages, NOT the whole book)

The story is, when I published my book in 2001, the printers were happy to produce several proofs FOC, until I was happy with the result, I then signed the job off, and the book was printed.

I am currently investigating doing a revised edition/reprint, and as the printers I used in 2001 no longer exist, I picked a printer who seems to print most of the same subject matter and quality of book I want, however they want to charge me £150.00 per proof. Bearing in mind that the original required several adjustments to get the photo and text "balance" right, and the fact that the original format was *Word* and has had to be converted to *PDF* due to current printing technology, I expect there will need to be some adjustments, and at £150.00 a pop that could end up costing a lot of money.

It's not Mills & Boon, or some minor celebrity's biography for the Chavs to buy, so not going to sell millions and make me a fortune, so spending say up to £600-£750.00 on just getting it right, is a lot when compared with the cost of the proposed print run.

Any informed input would be appreciated.

[mob17]

Sorry can't help, but whats the book?

[MrPogle]

I can't help either but I can't help but noticing that the printers you used who did things for free are no longer in business. I think in most businesses these days that kind of goodwill upfront has gone.

[MERLIN335i]

Originally Posted by mob17

Sorry can't help, but whats the book?

"Best of the Few", history of 92 Squadron RAF, mainly during the "Battle of Britain".

[MERLIN335i]

Originally Posted by MrPogle

I can't help either but I can't help but noticing that the printers you used who did things for free are no longer in business. I think in most businesses these days that kind of goodwill upfront has gone.

Yes, I agree, bring back the old days, the practice/phrase "speculate to accumulate" seems to have been forgotten these days.

Looks like it may be a Kindle/ebook edition then !

[Desmondo]

Yes, charging for a wet proof is normal. Depending on the press, you're probably looking at over £100 just for the plates let alone the time setting up the machine and other costs just to see a few copies run off.

Ask of they do chromalin proofs or similar, they should have a decent and fairly accurate proofing machine.

The other problem with wet proofs is that things could change when the job goes back on to the press again...it's just a whole load of agro and is it really worth it for you anyway? Most customers that I have that are fussy about colours aren't so fussy when you mention costs and then also wouldn't notice if things were different anyway.

[Desmondo]

Originally Posted by MERLIN335i

Yes, I agree, bring back the old days, the practice/phrase "speculate to accumulate" seems to have been forgotten these days.

Just to add.....it's as simple as time costs money. Print free proofs for you or print a job for a paying customer? If that press is constantly running with paying jobs, to stop it for (possibly multiple) free proofs isn't the sensible option.

[MERLIN335i]

Originally Posted by Desmondo

Yes, charging for a wet proof is normal. Depending on the press, you're probably looking at over £100 just for the plates let alone the time setting up the machine and other costs just to see a few copies run off.

Ask of they do chromalin proofs or similar, they should have a decent and fairly accurate proofing machine.

The other problem with wet proofs is that things could change when the job goes back on to the press again...it's just a whole load of agro and is it really worth it for you anyway? Most customers that I have that are fussy about colours aren't so fussy when you mention costs and then also wouldn't notice if things were different anyway.

Originally Posted by Desmondo

Just to add.....it's as simple as time costs money. Print free proofs for you or print a job for a paying customer? If that press is constantly running with paying jobs, to stop it for (possibly multiple) free proofs isn't the sensible option.

Thanks for your comments, just what I was after, a current perspective, the book is B&W only, and it is the reproduction of the photographs that concern me.

[Desmondo]

Not a problem at all

The fact it is black & white only would reduce the costs of proofing as there is only one plate to make rather than the four for a full colour job.

Having said that, and I usually ask this of my clients when they want a VERY accurate proof.....how important is it? I have some customers that want to spend £500 on a job and ask for a wet proof and when I explain the machine time, wages, material costs, etc. they then understand why I can't do a free wet proof.

I appreciate many people want to get things just right, but some people do go over the top when it comes to getting colours right. I had one solicitor who was a bit up his own arse who complained that his letterheads were not exactly the same as his current ones and he wanted all of his stationery to match. I can appreciate that and we reprinted his job free of charge. I was more than a little annoyed though when I saw his current business cards and compliment slips were a different shade of blue to each other and everything else he had. I wondered how important it really was as nothing matched anyway.

Sorry, not having a dig at you.....just letting off some steam

[mowflow]

I share your pain Desmondo. Have been there many times before.

As Desmondo has already said. The most we would ever do for a client even when a proof is extremely colour critical (one that springs to mind was a flooring company where there were representations of samples on pages, these obviously had to be as accurate as possible) would be a chromalin.

Another option might be to ask about doing a press pass. It's been a few years since i did one but it used to be a case of going to the printers when they had the press all set up to run the full job. You get to check a few as they come off and they can make slight adjustments if you aren't happy. I've never known there to be any extra cost involved with this as it's not a case of the machine being set up just to run a few. The whole run will go through on that set up. My disclaimer is that I also only ever did this on full colour jobs.

[MERLIN335i]

Originally Posted by mowflow

I share your pain Desmondo. Have been there many times before.

As Desmondo has already said. The most we would ever do for a client even when a proof is extremely colour critical (one that springs to mind was a flooring company where there were representations of samples on pages, these obviously had to be as accurate as possible) would be a chromalin.

Another option might be to ask about doing a press pass. It's been a few years since i did one but it used to be a case of going to the printers when they had the press all set up to run the full job. You get to check a few as they come off and they can make slight adjustments if you aren't happy. I've never known there to be any extra cost involved with this as it's not a case of the machine being set up just to run a few. The whole run will go through on that set up. My disclaimer is that I also only ever did this on full colour jobs.

Thanks for that, it's another option that I can enquire about .