[hotrod182]

I mentioned last week that some higher boost cars were having turbo failures. One had the V2, downpipes, intake, and catback. BMW investigated and denied warranty coverage after finding "evidence" of tampering, so the owner had to approve $14800 of work "so far". If the engine has to be replaced, tack on about another $15000. The engine block alone is $11,845 (pt#11-00-0-415-278). I looked all this up initially, because I wanted to know how much it would cost to replace my engine if I blew it up. What I didn't realize is that you can spend another $14,000+ when you have to replace your turbos, and catalytic converters, etc. $30,000 is definitely something that gets your attention. As I said, the DME records everything from exhaust valve disconnect, implausible throttle angle/boost, misfires, battery disconnects, and even light bulb removals. I have also heard other cars in which the turbos have become noisey (whine) after usage at higher boost levels. I really think tunes that boost at anything above what Dinan recommended, (12-13 psi?) will start destroying your turbos. I think if you could see how much higher those turbos spin at those boost levels you would be shocked. I think this is all "very important" knowledge for the N54 community. Like I said, I posted this earlier last week, and it got deleted by the mods, as I was accused of working for Terry! So I went over there and posted, and the thread was not deleted, and infact became a thread of useful information. Here is a picture of the 335i with failed turbos, with cats that were ruined by the oil dumped in them. I have always backed up my claims with facts. I don't know if the mods want to see the DME printouts, more engine pictures, audio clips?, I'm obliged to provide them upon request. The DME fault codes "signature" that is left when check engine lights come on in modified cars are uniquely suspicious to BMW.

In the video, you can see the clearances:

[thegeneral101]

I was disgusted when i saw the thread was closed last week by the mods. if there is any information that is relevant to the community it would be this. I would also hope that some of the tuners can get in this thread and backup why they think its safe to be running boost higher than 12-13psi. thanks for re-posting this hotrod

btw, when i first looked at the picture I thought it was someone doing a burnout at a bmw dealer lol

[Sniz]

that is just horrible.......fingers crossed I guess.

[hotrod182]

Yup, I thought it was pretty disgusting that I was accused of posting information with actual no proof or factual basis. I have tons of proof if they need it. This is all "very" important information for the N54 community. Ask the poor guy that is going to fork out $15K how important this would have been to know! But if it is more important to sell a high boost tune that will jeopordize your engine, then people should know about it. I have no allegiance to any kind of tune. I know that running a JB2HR or HHR is not a recommendation of Terry, and those people are doing so at their own risk also.

[O-cha]

My turbos like to whine :/ If they had turbo failures though why would they have to replace the whole block and all that.

Why did he have to OK 14k worth of work? Unless his oil system got contaminated there would be no need.

And at that point that's worth more then the car....

[Orb]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I mentioned last week that some higher boost cars were having turbo failures. One had the V2, downpipes, intake, and catback. BMW investigated and denied warranty coverage after finding "evidence" of tampering, so the owner had to approve $14800 of work "so far". If the engine has to be replaced, tack on about another $15000. The engine block alone is $11,845 (pt#11-00-0-415-278). I looked all this up initially, because I wanted to know how much it would cost to replace my engine if I blew it up. What I didn't realize is that you can spend another $14,000+ when you have to replace your turbos, and catalytic converters, etc. $30,000 is definitely something that gets your attention. As I said, the DME records everything from exhaust valve disconnect, implausible throttle angle/boost, misfires, battery disconnects, and even light bulb removals. I have also heard other cars in which the turbos have become noisey (whine) after usage at higher boost levels. I really think tunes that boost at anything above what Dinan recommended, (12-13 psi?) will start destroying your turbos. I think if you could see how much higher those turbos spin at those boost levels you would be shocked. I think this is all "very important" knowledge for the N54 community. Like I said, I posted this earlier last week, and it got deleted by the mods, as I was accused of working for Terry! So I went over there and posted, and the thread was not deleted, and infact became a thread of useful information. Here is a picture of the 335i with failed turbos, with cats that were ruined by the oil dumped in them. I have always backed up my claims with facts. I don't know if the mods want to see the DME printouts, more engine pictures, audio clips?, I'm obliged to provide them upon request. The DME fault codes "signature" that is left when check engine lights come on in modified cars are uniquely suspicious to BMW.

Your comments are not unfounded at all. If you really look close at all the data and comments made by vendor we can certainly see a choke point developing around 14 PSI boost. We know hitting a choke point means that more boost equals a massive increase in turbine speed and thus stress loads.

I’m sure you’re about to be indicated with the typical prove it crap but there is already enough information here to make a reasonable assumption of the turbo behavior. At the very least it means the subject of increasing boost should be approached with caution but you find Shiv saying boost it to 19 PSI is fine.

Orb

[Tuned335i]

5 pages today

Who's car was it?

[LOLrance]

In on 1.

[Artz 330]

With 14-15psi of boost levels on stock turbos, maybe it would be cheaper and safer to upgrade the turbos that could boost the same if not more, and be in normal operating levels not max? This would prevent turbo failure, no?

[AlpineM6GC]

wait, is it not normal to hear a whine noise from the turbo's at low rpm's??
I started hearing this and just thought it was due to the tune.

[hotrod182]

Unfortunately, I think a lot of people are going to find when they take off their tunes, the turbos will still whine excessively, indicating they are already damaged, and its just a matter of time before they fail.

Originally Posted by O-cha

My turbos like to whine :/ If they had turbo failures though why would they have to replace the whole block and all that.

Why did he have to OK 14k worth of work? Unless his oil system got contaminated there would be no need.

And at that point that's worth more then the car....

How noisey are they?
Here is a sample of what some of the 335i failed turbos initially sound like:

The thing about the turbos as they begin to fail is the risk of taking out other very expensive components. Remember, not only are the cats damaged, but so are all the O2 sensors, etc, etc. Nothing on a BMW is cheap. A doctor friend of mine just had the Cats on his 07 M5 replaced. Wholesale price for the job was $10,000! N54 manifolds/cats aren't quite this fancy, but the prices are nonetheless eye opening!

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

How noisey are they?
Here is a sample of what some of the 335i failed turbos initially sound like:

Are you telling me that is a clip from a car that then had it's turbos fail?

[O-cha]

Also from my understanding this guy had a full catless exhaust and an intake and was running V2?

I assume he did not have a boost gauge and am willing to bet he was overboosting like a SOAB?

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Are you telling me that is a clip from a car that then had it's turbos fail?

The video clip turbos haven't had interference failure yet, but the bearings are damaged. When driving at light throttle conditions passengers will think a police car is following you. The dilema is how long do you wait to do a $5000-$6000 repair or instead suffer castrophic failure in the amount of $14000-$30000? It becomes a very tough situation obviously.

[AlpineM6GC]

mine seem to whine only when the engine is cold and def not as loud as the turbos in the video. Is this not normal?

[Robertbog]

Um, you sure he didnt mishift and blow his head?

Have you talked to the driver directly? is he legit?

I just have a hard time believing that solely boost would do this, without a limp mode cutting it ect.

[Robertbog]

Originally Posted by Orb

Your comments are not unfounded at all. If you really look close at all the data and comments made by vendor we can certainly see a choke point developing around 14 PSI boost. We know hitting a choke point means that more boost equals a massive increase in turbine speed and thus stress loads.

I’m sure you’re about to be indicated with the typical prove it crap but there is already enough information here to make a reasonable assumption of the turbo behavior. At the very least it means the subject of increasing boost should be approached with caution but you find Shiv saying boost it to 19 PSI is fine.

Orb

Yeah ive seen my car hold 22 and be fine, of course I only let it hold for 1k or so at like 4k. this really seems like a driver error to me.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Robertbog

Um, you sure he didnt mishift and blow his head?

Have you talked to the driver directly? is he legit?

I just have a hard time believing that solely boost would do this, without a limp mode cutting it ect.

Mechanical over revs store their own specific rpm record in the DME.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

The video clip turbos haven't had interference failure yet, but the bearings are damaged. When driving at light throttle conditions passengers will think a police car is following you. The dilema is how long do you wait to do $5000-$6000 repair or instead suffer castrophic failure in the amount of $14000-$30000? It becomes a very tough situation obviously.

So then why is the video entitled "turbo spooling" and not "sound of a turbo failure"

Sorry to be skeptical here but :/

I'm also suprised that no one has mentioned the fact that the turbos in say a dinan car are already hitting compressor speeds equal to that of stock at higher altitudes and 15psi cars that of dinan at higher altitudes. Or did we just forget all about that?

[stillclaimndp]

if i blew my turbos and somehow my motor, i would park my car and wait for someone to total their's, buy their motor... save 20-24k. 30k for a motor in a 42k car Hotrod182? Come on...

[Tuned335i]

I believe Hotrod, and I also think that if this is such an easy failure, that every tuner out there would have had this happen to them already, i.e., BMS, Vishnu, AA, Helix (sorry if I forgot your favorite 14-15psi tune LOL). Shouldn't these failures would be happening and being reported daily here, or elsewhere? I'm not saying that it's not happening, but if it is, it's impressive that people who have had this problem are keeping it so quiet...

[Robertbog]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Mechanical over revs store their own specific rpm record in the DME.

Well he is paying for them, so....

Obviously if your wastegates are making the sounds we heard in the video, you shouldnt push it. Apparently there is some play in the wastegates from stock, which increases with use from what we see, and with Mr. 5 just flat out fail. Maybe its a BMW precaution, anyone out of factory warrenty yet? lol