[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by CubanJJ09

Solid thread here. Spent he whole night reading it. Needless to say the gf is pretty pissed. Anyways my "thrust rod bushing" are torn and leaking but are still Covered under warranty. After reading this thread I've gathered that the thrust rod is the upper control arm aka wishbone, which houses the bushing and the lower control arm is aka tension rod. Hopefully that's right or else I've wasted the thousands trips to and from realoem. Is there and advantage of just having either of the control arms replaced? I'm sure I could buy the "m3 thrust rod aka Upper control arm aka wishbone and have it installed for free under warranty (assuming that they need to take off the old oem thrust rod to replace the bushing). Also are there any other suspension parts (a side from coil-overs) that i should get done now to save on labor like a front sway? Any question comments and answers would be helpful. I'm Not a guru on suspension components so any feedback would be helpful.

The two arms you see on the right are the thrust arms. The others are the wishbones. Hope that helps.

[CubanJJ09]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

The two arms you see on the right are the thrust arms. The others are the wishbones. Hope that helps.

.....Shit. so my bushings are torn in the one on the right, The one that can add neg camber? Is there any benefit to getting the ones on the left? Or should I not waste my money? I Drive pretty hard through cloverleafs and will barely track the car

edit: after hours or reading i now know the difference and that the wishbones add the neg camber

[e90pilot]

If you track the car at all, there is a huge benefit not only on handling but in durability. If you do take onramps hard you will notice more even tire ware with more negative camber. Right now you might see the outsides of both fronts wearing quicker than the rest of the tire. Also because of there is less deflection with M3 parts, you won't loose as much negative camber under cornering load. I run 2.0 degrees up front and get nice tire ware even with all the highway driving I do.

[CubanJJ09]

yea i figure im just goin to get them both. since i or they will already be under there might as well swap them out. but u run a -2 camber? seems like alot, then again i have e92 so im not sure if its different. i was going to have them set it at -8 or -9 and i thought that was aggressive. tire wear doesnt matter for me since i usually replace the rears before the front wouldnt mind more traction at the expense of tires

[BTM]

Browsed this thread and didn't find much pertaining to the front sway bar - has anyone else had a clearance problem with it? I just put it in this morning and noticed it is very tight to (what I believe is) the front subframe - over larger bumps I can hear what I think is the bar making contact, most of the time however there is no noise.

I am going to throw the car back up on the lift tomorrow and see if I can see any signs of the bar hitting and perhaps wrap it with some foam to see if it will quiet it down. I typed in the part number for the E90 bar but is the E92 different at all and perhaps I mistakenly got sent the wrong bar?

FWIW the parts I installed are these:

31352283515 Stabilizer, front (1)
31352283516 Rubber bushing, antiroll bar, bottom (2)
31352283517 Rubber bushing, antiroll bar, top (2)
31352283037 Stabilizer support (2)
07119904295 Self-locking collar nut (4)
33326768884 Hexagon nut with collar (4)

Other than this slight problem I am much happier with this rather than the UUC I took out. The front seems tighter for sure (in a good way) however this is probably a function of the new bushings.

Just confirmed that the part numbers are the same for the both the E90 and E92 front sways...Guess I'll have to throw it up on the lift. Pics tomorrow

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by BTM

Browsed this thread and didn't find much pertaining to the front sway bar - has anyone else had a clearance problem with it? I just put it in this morning and noticed it is very tight to (what I believe is) the front subframe - over larger bumps I can hear what I think is the bar making contact, most of the time however there is no noise.

I am going to throw the car back up on the lift tomorrow and see if I can see any signs of the bar hitting and perhaps wrap it with some foam to see if it will quiet it down. I typed in the part number for the E90 bar but is the E92 different at all and perhaps I mistakenly got sent the wrong bar?

FWIW the parts I installed are these:

31352283515 Stabilizer, front (1)
31352283516 Rubber bushing, antiroll bar, bottom (2)
31352283517 Rubber bushing, antiroll bar, top (2)
31352283037 Stabilizer support (2)
07119904295 Self-locking collar nut (4)
33326768884 Hexagon nut with collar (4)

Other than this slight problem I am much happier with this rather than the UUC I took out. The front seems tighter for sure (in a good way) however this is probably a function of the new bushings.

Just confirmed that the part numbers are the same for the both the E90 and E92 front sways...Guess I'll have to throw it up on the lift. Pics tomorrow

That is the correct E90/92 M3 front bar. It can only go in one way.

[specE30Dude]

Originally Posted by Orb

Hum, I think you could break this down into stages. Just depend how much you want to spend.

Stage 0:

Reduction in under steer

• Front tension link

State 1:

A reduction in under steer with improved handling and feedback. A must for high tuned cars…keep the rear from dog tracking. Give the user the ability to increase spring rates effectively.

• Front tension link
• Sub frame isolator bushings


Stage 1.5

Same as stage 1 but for users that have camber plates.

• Front tension link
• Front wishbones link
• Sub frame isolator bushings


Stage 2:

M3 Equivalent suspension when used with after market suspension and camber plates.

• Front tension link
• Front wishbones link
• Sub-frame isolator bushings
• Rear steering link
• Rear wishbone link
• Rear guide link
• Rear ABS cable bracket

Stage 2.5:

With M 3 rear sway bar.

• Front tension link
• Front wishbones link
• Sub-frame isolator bushings
• Rear steering link
• Rear wishbone link
• Rear guide link
• Rear ABS cable bracket
• M3 Rear sway bar kit - 20 mm (hollow)


Stage 3:

Stage 2 plus the rear camber link/harware and a M3 after market rear shock

Orb

This has been an informative post..Thanks to everyone for the details provided. I own a 2010 335d (Sport Package) and was considering to replace my current sport setup with these M3 components.

My questions are:
Are you aware of anyone running the M3 H&R Sports or Race on the 335d/335? If I modify the above components, I would like to address the spring rates and lower it just a bit - Especially the front. I believe to do this, I would just need to use the M3 spring perch. My friend also has his stock M3 springs avail for me to use, however, not sure thats worth the effort if the only change is a slightly higher spring rate.

H&R shows a different spring for the 335d so a higher spring rate may be required due to a slightly heavier front end. I prefer a slightly higher spring rate than the norm so I think I'm heading in the right direction. Then again, is it even worth changing my suspension if I already have the OEM Sport setup? Either way, it is nice not to feel rushed..I am living fine with the current setup.

Any pointers or advice would be appreciated. I assume all of the recommendations given by Orb and others would be applicable to the 2010d.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by specE30Dude

This has been an informative post..Thanks to everyone for the details provided. I own a 2010 335d (Sport Package) and was considering to replace my current sport setup with these M3 components.

My questions are:
Are you aware of anyone running the M3 H&R Sports or Race on the 335d/335? If I modify the above components, I would like to address the spring rates and lower it just a bit - Especially the front. I believe to do this, I would just need to use the M3 spring perch. My friend also has his stock M3 springs avail for me to use, however, not sure thats worth the effort if the only change is a slightly higher spring rate.

H&R shows a different spring for the 335d so a higher spring rate may be required due to a slightly heavier front end. I prefer a slightly higher spring rate than the norm so I think I'm heading in the right direction. Then again, is it even worth changing my suspension if I already have the OEM Sport setup? Either way, it is nice not to feel rushed..I am living fine with the current setup.

Any pointers or advice would be appreciated. I assume all of the recommendations given by Orb and others would be applicable to the 2010d.

Everything is the same, nothing has changed.

I think you will find the M3 front perches a little different, even if they fit, the upper strut mounts don't.

[BTM]

EDIT/UPDATE! Yes folks it is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE to install your M3 sway bar UPSIDE DOWN!!! Let me take care of the subsequent posts for you:





If you experience any of the following I posted STOP! Your bar is UPSIDE DOWN!



Here are the results of my front sway bar. As far as I can tell I'm the only one who's had this issue with the front bar. Other than the sway bars (M3 front, UUC rear) my car has stock sport suspension. It is a MY07 E90 335, build date 11/06.

Problem? As you can see, the bar is very tight to the front subframe:





After taking the bar out, the signs of contact were obvious:




Confirm part number:



Side by side comparison with UUC:



Solution? Since the contact on the subframe was not in a crucial area, I used a grinder to grind the frame down slightly, perhaps 1/8" at most. I only felt comfortable doing this because of the small amount I was taking off and the contact was being made on some excess aluminum that was standing proud and getting in the way. Not the most elegant solution I agree. The result is more clearance and a short test drive confirmed the noise gone, but only true daily driving will tell for sure

Here are the areas to minimize with the grinder:




For reference here is the diagram:

[HP Autosport]

I can see the problem right away. You mounted the ARB upside down.

[Mr. 5]

You can also install the rear upside down as well.
My buddy did his and said that he thinks he needs the car to settle.
I said, "What do you mean?"
He said that the rear of the car is really high.
I told him that it doesn't sound right and then he noticed that he installed the rear upside down (or backwards) and had to do the rear all over again. DOH!

[BTM]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

You can also install the rear upside down as well.
My buddy did his and said that he thinks he needs the car to settle.
I said, "What do you mean?"
He said that the rear of the car is really high.
I told him that it doesn't sound right and then he noticed that he installed the rear upside down (or backwards) and had to do the rear all over again. DOH!

Wow that would suck for the rear! At least the front is very easy to get to...it's only like an hour of work

[specE30Dude]

Just received the front M3 suspension components to install on my 335d. Ordered them from Harold who was very helpful.

Now that I've got one side apart, it dawned on me that it may not be a bad idea to find the proper torque specs for the install. I could not find a write up on the install of these components..probably because its so straightforward.

On another note, does anyone know of an online resource for the service manual on these cars?

I have toe plates that I will use for the alignment so feel confident that I can get the toe relatively close to how I want it.I will post feedback of my before/after drive.

[specE30Dude]

Setup is done and I can say it was worth it. However, it makes me realize just how important it is to stiffen the rear now. I've briefly outlined the job below:

* The most time consuming part of the job was removing and installing all of the little screws for the under cowlings.
* The tension rods were super easy and the fit was nearly seamless..Very clean.
* Wishbones took a bit of finessing then tapping of a mallet to squeeze the M3 version into the chassis. Just a bit more of a tight fit than the tension rods but not too frustrating. Then installed the headlight rod thing on driver side..You need this as part of the kit. Really neat seeing the difference in length and design of wishbone (possibly changing roll angle and creating some negative camber). Bushings are obviously stiffer.
* I then put it back together with a feel for the right torque..It should be within 1-3ftlbs of spec...Pretty tight but not overstressed. I will still search for a service manual on this car and revisit.
* I then used toe plates for alignment. I turned each tie rod three full turns (after marking) to push each wheel out and that was it. Note: "unscrewing (left) the bolt" on each side pushes the toe open...You will twist in a different direction for each side. I have checked it multiple times and gotten dead 0 toe in the front. The stock rear toe was 0deg as well. As surprising as it may seem, I think i got the suspension exactly where I want it. I also tested thrust angle and got 1/8 off..not bad at all..steering wheel was nearly straight but not 100%.

The drive:
I live down a gravel road so I could feel the difference in stiffness right away. Driving the car feels slightly more twitchy than stock. "Responsive" is a better word as its not too toe'd out but 0deg is noticeably more than stock.

Yes, I could feel a difference on the road when setting the car into a turn..I could feel the road/tires better, the little bumps were more noticeable and slightly tighter on turn-in. As noted earlier, I can't necessarily drive too much harder as the back now feels more exaggerated. The front inspires more confidence yet the back still wants to upset the car. I will not be taking it to an alignment shop as I don't want them to mess it up ..I really do like where it is. Three turns on each side and perfecto!

I also run 12mm spacers front and rear on stock run flats that I hope to upgrade soon. Front camber was -1.5 and rear was -2.0..not sure floor was entirely flat and how accurate my tool was but close enough.

Hope my experience helps...Will be ordering more from Harold...

[Forcefed3]

Is the M3 strut brace that much better than RD strut brace? Everyone seems to go with M3.

[jippii ensio]

Does it really make sense to install M3 wishbones if you are looking for increasing front camber to -0.8 - -0.9 degrees which can be done just by adjusting the stock suspension alignment and without M3 wishbones? Look at the following old post of before robbing M3 parts era, i.e. without M3 wishbones:

Originally Posted by Orb

these are my setting after 3 alignments and fair amount of testing.

Front Camber: -0.8 to -0.9 (this is the max)

The car need a fair amount of toe-in in the rear with LSD and it did help a lot.

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

The M3 wishbones will put you at the max for camber.
I was at -.3 (left) and -.2 (right) degrees of camber before the M3 wishbones.
Once I isntalled them, I went to -.9 and -.8 degrees respectively.

There's no doubt about it...the M3 wishbones work!

So you could have get to the same camber without M3 wishbones.

What about the other part fo the old post, is it still suggested to increase toe-in if you install LSD?

The straight forward easy solution would be just adding LSD, increase the front camber to -.8 and increase toe-in at the rear.

Or then go for almost all the way far enough to mimic M3 suspension. Being stuck in the middle can be less optimal and end up in bad solutions such as adding M3 sways or stiffer springs, but having stock bushings that don't cope with the increased loads.

[stressdoc]

+1
My advice is to map out complete systems with no weak links, and then decide how much $ you are willing to spend. Suspensions are not like engines, where you can piecemeal mods one at a time. One exception to that is bushings; it is OK to install these M3 parts without changing anything else. But if you are going for springs, sways etc. then you really need to include bushings. It makes me wince when I see a BMW "lowered" for looks.

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

-0.75 is not going to increase your tire wear much.

Lots of people worried about tire wear.... I did my mods because I wanted sharp handling and to fix the problems with the car... that will be at a cost of tires. I didn't do the M3 arms and suspension to drive my car easier. I am going to drive the car for the reason I bought it.... and for the BMW reputation of a driving machine. If I have to replace my tires yearly - I am having a TON of fun because of it.

That said, the rears have more camber and the inside rears wear out quickly due to my foot... more so than the front. I am sure that is the case with all of us.

Just my 2 cents.

[TurboBimmer]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

Does it really make sense to install M3 wishbones if you are looking for increasing front camber to -0.8 - -0.9 degrees which can be done just by adjusting the stock suspension alignment and without M3 wishbones?

On the front camber is not adjustable unless you drill out the adjustment pin. To add camber, you need to get the M3 wishbones and camber plates.

[DaFish]

Originally Posted by Autobahn335i

On the front camber is not adjustable unless you drill out the adjustment pin. To add camber, you need to get the M3 wishbones and camber plates.

I just did the M3 arms .... this is a no brainer.... "Just do it" - and both of them.

The resultant feel on the road is a big one, but as Harold said, the lack of flex under load keeps the wheels and tires where they should for hard cornering.

I did those and the dinan camber plates and the front has WAY more grip - and it still understeers (but way less). The end result on the addition of camber is only .5 degrees more than an M3. Also, Dinan sells these camber plates for the M3 too.... (which is what I have now) so I don't think this is an issue. There is noticable camber on the front though, you can see it.

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by Autobahn335i

On the front camber is not adjustable unless you drill out the adjustment pin. To add camber, you need to get the M3 wishbones and camber plates.

You need to remove the alignment pin in the top of the front strut. You drill it out then you move the strut in the slotted holes to adjust the camber. You will get almost as much negative camber as with installing m3 wishbones. So, I don't quite see the need to have M3 wishbones nor camber plates for adding front camber moderately.

[TurboBimmer]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

You need to remove the alignment pin in the top of the front strut. You drill it out then you move the strut in the slotted holes to adjust the camber. You will get almost as much negative camber as with installing m3 wishbones. So, I don't quite see the need to have M3 wishbones nor camber plates for adding front camber moderately.

It all adds up. And the M3 wishbones have stiffer bushings, tightening up and improving steering feel alot. IMO for the low cost you can't go wrong.