[cstavaru]

News from the only Power Kit owner so far, he compared 2 cars with a friend, one with the kit and one without and there is clearly a difference:

[Babelfish translation]

"No notion whether still interest exists at Eindücken, I write times still or two words: The other 335i is from the vacation back and we the vehicles alternately drove now. The first comment of the other E91 of driver: Ouuu would not have thought that one notices so clearly. To me was missing little " Biss". We made and stated then a small comparison trip that my 335i with PP sets off nevertheless noticeably of its twin brother without PP. That naturally everything in the context of such, amateurish comparison trip seen. In the result for next Tuesday the second car was announced. One " negative" Note still: The additional radiator was to be heard at the high temperatures yesterday with lowered disk and engine start while stationary very clearly. Otherwise consumption is rather and I is further enthusiastic up to now. "

Original: http://www.auto-treff.com/bmw/vb/sho...postid=2556374

[vgame64]

Thanks cstavaru, but I have no idea what that says.

[645Nm]

+ 1

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

News from the only Power Kit owner so far, he compared 2 cars with a friend, one with the kit and one without and there is clearly a difference:

[Babelfish translation]

Babelfish is normally useless when translating from German in another language. Let me summarize the impressions of my compatriot:

He has installed the Performance Package in one of his two E91 335i and has compared both cars upon returning from vacation. The difference is (to his surprise) quite noticeable, the tuned car had more bite than the stock one. During a comparative drive the 335i with PP was perceptibly faster than the stock car, even if it was just a free (unprofessional) comparison. As a consequence, the second car was also scheduled for having the PP installed. Only negative point: Apparently the bigger fan is louder than the stock one before and can be heard distinctly when the windows are down. Fuel consumption has remained identical.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[stressdoc]

What do we know about why this kit requires MSD81? Other flashes (GIAC, ESS, etc.) work with either 80 or 81. What is special and different about this kit???

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

What do we know about why this kit requires MSD81? Other flashes (GIAC, ESS, etc.) work with either 80 or 81. What is special and different about this kit???

From http://wiki.bavariantechnic.com/inde...mens_MSD80_DME :

"MSD81 is essentially the same as the MSD80 but also includes the ability to detect manipulation to the control module by outside tuner boxes."

What's special about the Power Kit ? The target audience

Apparently they realize that most of the Power Kit customers are tuning junkies and may try other tuning "options" later...

[stressdoc]

If that (tune detection) is the only reason then no way I am kicking over $600+ for a new DME.

[boilerdan33]

I am really hoping that this comes out less than $2000 installed. If it's less than $2500, I'm almost definitely going to get it. I've been bringing my car to the track pretty consistently, and I've been hitting a wall around 15-20 minutes in, where the engine temps hit 305 and the boost shuts off inconsistently. It will be completely shut off for half a lap while the engine is above 305, I'll hit some twistys where the air flow is less and I still am using full throttle and the boost will be back, then the temps will hit 305 again and it will be gone. I'd like to hit some of the bigger tracks and be able to go full bore without the problems of overheating the engine.

When I finish upgrading the brakes and tires, it will make the overheating problems even worse, because I'll be on the throttle longer going deeper into corners, and I'll be on it earlier.

The extra grunt is a bonus. I am thinking about putting a mild tune on it, but there is no way it would last for more than a few laps without upgraded cooling. I think you guys are a little nuts for runing the tunes WITHOUT added cooling.

This is really a needed upgrade.

[David1]

Originally Posted by boilerdan33

I am really hoping that this comes out less than $2000 installed. If it's less than $2500, I'm almost definitely going to get it. I've been bring my car to the track pretty cosistently, and I've been hitting a wall around 15-20 minutes in, where the engine temps hit 305 and the boost shuts off inconsistently. It will be completely shut off for half a lap while the engine is above 305, I'll hit some twistys where the air flow is less and I still am using full throttle and the boost will be back, then the temps will hit 305 again and it will be gone. I'd like to hit some of the bigger tracks and be able to go full bore without the problems of overheating the engine.

When I finish upgrading the brakes and tires, it will make the overheating problems even worse, because I'll be on the throttle longer going deeper into corners, and I'll be on it earlier.

The extra grunt is a bonus. I am thinking about putting a mild tune on it, but there is no way it would last for more than a few laps without upgraded cooling. I think you guys are a little nuts for runing the tunes WITHOUT added cooling.

This is really a needed upgrade.

This will not help you that much. You need a better/larger oil cooler. Your oil temps are still going to spike. It just may take a couple more laps to do so. The extra cooling stuff will not make the car run cooler. It will still run at the same temps. You will just have more water cooling capacity/stability. This is still just for street.

[cstavaru]

The kit is in za house ! Not installed yet, but it is at the dealer and I have plenty of new info and pictures about it.

The box is HUGE, and it contais 3 layers of parts ! The software is delivered on a CD which has my VIN on it !

New sparkplugs are provided (regular ones) and they need to be changed every 60.000kms. The supplemental radiator is very lightweight and 100% aluminium.

Some pics below.

[enrita]

i have 2 oil coolers and i have never seen my temp pass 260 F.

[enrita]

Thanks cstavaru calling now BMW to see if i can buy the fan :-)

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by enrita

Thanks cstavaru calling now BMW to see if i can buy the fan :-)

You will also need the fan wiring harness and the relay...I believe. There is a wiring harness in the power kit's box.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by boilerdan33

I am thinking about putting a mild tune on it, but there is no way it would last for more than a few laps without upgraded cooling. I think you guys are a little nuts for runing the tunes WITHOUT added cooling.

I completely agree with you, at least as long as you want to track the car.

This is really a needed upgrade.

Now here I disagree - there are other options to reduce the temps. I have the additional oil cooler from ar design (NB: I also have the stock one) and have never seen my temps go over 125 degrees Celsius (= 257 Fahrenheit), even after two laps on the Nordschleife. If you only want the cooling, that is a much less expensive option - and IMO also a better one as a first step, as the N54 does not have an oil/water exchanger, and the turbos are cooled with oil so that would be my first worry instead of the water temps.

If you already have an upgraded (or additional) oil cooler, then the additional cooling components can certainly make sense.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

and IMO also a better one as a first step, as the N54 does not have an oil/water exchanger, and the turbos are cooled with oil so that would be my first worry instead of the water temps.
Alpina_B3_Lux

Thats not accurate for the N54. While there is no oil to water heat exchanger , it does use both oil and water to cool the turbos. Take note of the Coolant lines. Given a choice, I would definitely prefer using water as the primary heat exchanger rather than oil. Oils primary purpose is to lubricate and not to cool. Water's only function in the design is to cool. One particular distinction is the ability for the platform to self regulate the transfer rate via the water pump + fan.

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

The kit is in za house ! Not installed yet, but it is at the dealer and I have plenty of new info and pictures about it.

The box is HUGE, and it contais 3 layers of parts ! The software is delivered on a CD which has my VIN on it !

New sparkplugs are provided (regular ones) and they need to be changed every 60.000kms. The supplemental radiator is very lightweight and 100% aluminium.

Some pics below.

Thank you for posting these. Do you have any of the ducts?

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

Thats not accurate for the N54. While there is no oil to water heat exchanger , it does use both oil and water to cool the turbos. Take note of the Coolant lines. Given a choice, I would definitely prefer using water as the primary heat exchanger rather than oil. Oils primary purpose is to lubricate and not to cool. Water's only function in the design is to cool. One particular distinction is the ability for the platform to self regulate the transfer rate via the water pump + fan.

This may explain it...they worry about the turbocharger longevity now that they (most certainly) increased the boost.

[boilerdan33]

And I respectfully disagree with you, David1 and Alpina. I agree that an oil cooler will help with keeping engine temps down. I haven't found an aftermarket oil cooler that I like yet. (My car came with the factory oil cooler.)

The oil gets hot because it is in contact with hot metal. If you keep the metal cooler by having a better radiator and cooling system, then everything stays cooler. I do not understand why people insist that oil coolers are the best way to keep ENGINE temperatures down. Porsche tried that for 50 years before finally switching over to water cooling. (The 911 was a combination of oil and air cooled.) The best way to keep engine temperatures down is to keep the engine coolant cool. This kit does that by the larger fan, additional radiator, etc. If cooling oil temperatures were the best way to do that, every car on the road would have an oil cooler instead of a coolant system.

I've found that the majority of cars with cooling problems have the 6AT, like I do. Cars with the 6MT do not seem to have as much problem with overheating at the track. (Maybe you have a MT?) The AT and the engine share a cooling system, and I think that the combination of AT, turbos, and beating it on the track raise my temps to the point of having a "soft" engine shut down. The engine is trying to save itself by shutting off the boost.

EDIT: Thank you, High Voltage, for saying exactly what I was thinking, even better than I could say it.

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

Thank you for posting these. Do you have any of the ducts?

Yes...unfortunately the ordering system from germany has some misunderstanding which made my dealer order the air ducts for the BMW Performance front bumper (the part ending in 674). The ETK does not say that air ducts are necessary if having M-Sport package (at least for my VIN). But I found out from M3EST user that there are air ducts for the M-Sport (the part ending in 672). Now my dealer has to be convinced to order those...however, I think that I can install the kit without the airducts and mount them afterwards. But there is some "backplate" in the airducts that I think the radiator is mounted on it. So I have to speak to the dealer tomorrow to see what to do.

[enrita]

If they increased the boost must be only like 0,5 psi considering the gains

[David1]

Originally Posted by boilerdan33

And I respectfully disagree with you, David1 and Alpina. I agree that an oil cooler will help with keeping engine temps down. I haven't found an aftermarket oil cooler that I like yet. (My car came with the factory oil cooler.)

The oil gets hot because it is in contact with hot metal. If you keep the metal cooler by having a better radiator and cooling system, then everything stays cooler. I do not understand why people insist that oil coolers are the best way to keep ENGINE temperatures down. Porsche tried that for 50 years before finally switching over to water cooling. (The 911 was a combination of oil and air cooled.) The best way to keep engine temperatures down is to keep the engine coolant cool. This kit does that by the larger fan, additional radiator, etc. If cooling oil temperatures were the best way to do that, every car on the road would have an oil cooler instead of a coolant system.

I've found that the majority of cars with cooling problems have the 6AT, like I do. Cars with the 6MT do not seem to have as much problem with overheating at the track. (Maybe you have a MT?) The AT and the engine share a cooling system, and I think that the combination of AT, turbos, and beating it on the track raise my temps to the point of having a "soft" engine shut down. The engine is trying to save itself by shutting off the boost.

EDIT: Thank you, High Voltage, for saying exactly what I was thinking, even better than I could say it.

Your missing my point. The ultimate running temperture will be the same. Cooland temp is controlled by the thermostat (there is also an oil temp thermostate) which will keep the coolant temps (and oil temps) where they are with or without the kit. The extra cooling kit will keep tempurture fluctuations down. I would also think twice about swapping the radiator fan since BMW may have this fan running faster or slower. You need to know what the flow is and at what fan speed since you can actually hinder airflow with the wrong fan at the wrong speed. That little radiator isn't going to due much. The ultimate solution will need to be a better radiator, but no one makes one yet. This whole kit "in my opinion" is just an expensive band aid.

Let the flames begin

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

Thats not accurate for the N54. While there is no oil to water heat exchanger , it does use both oil and water to cool the turbos. Take note of the Coolant lines. Given a choice, I would definitely prefer using water as the primary heat exchanger rather than oil. Oils primary purpose is to lubricate and not to cool. Water's only function in the design is to cool. One particular distinction is the ability for the platform to self regulate the transfer rate via the water pump + fan.

I agree with you that the radiator (= water) also cools the turbos, which is by the way also one of the reasons why the water pump will continue to run for some time after you have switched off the engine. Still, in any car and in particular FI cars the oil also has a coolant effect (although it may not be its primary purpose), which is why many N54 have the factory oil cooler and some (Alpina, Dinan) offer additional oil coolers from the start for this engine.

What I wanted to say is that from what I have read and experienced, the main problem of the N54 is not high water temps but high oil temps, which are most easily solved by upping the oil cooling system, i.e. installing an additional oil cooler. Now, I assume you could argue that if you increase the efficiency of the water cooling system, you may also solve the oil temperature issues, which could be true (but still needs to be verified). It's just that it may be easier (and less expensive) to go with the tried oil coolers (which I have seen proven on many occasions - not only the AR design but also the VK Motorwerks for example).

The optimal solution (which I will probably go for on the long run) would consist in combining both systems, IMO.

Alpina_B3_Lux