[5erman]

I am wondering why BMS is not coming out with a pbx 2 or update or something with a piggyback for valvetronic adjustment tune to compete with the other major tunes out there.

Maybe the guys-berger tuning does not know how-which would explain it-I guess I figure if someone is making a living off tuning they should have this know how and considering how well the pbx sold to me it would be worth the little bit of extra time and R and D considering it would be a small addition.

I think a bit more lift from the valvetronic at higher rpms could add 10 hp to the top end easily-oh well just a thought

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

They played with it but didn't notice significant enough gains to justify the extra cost to customers.

Mike

[BadBoostedBMWM3]

what about tuning for a little boost??

[5erman]

dude this is an NA engine-sorry to disapoint they dont use "boost"

[wareagle900]

he means offering the tuning required to add a turbo and make it a F/I car.

[5erman]

but there is no FI kit out there-why would they market a tune for turbo's-it has to be specific to a turbo or fi kit

that is not what he meant

[BadBoostedBMWM3]

Originally Posted by 5erman

dude this is an NA engine-sorry to disapoint they dont use "boost"

I mean what about trying to tune the valvetronic for a little boost.

I know the n52 is naturally aspirated.

[BadBoostedBMWM3]

Originally Posted by 5erman

but there is no FI kit out there-why would they market a tune for turbo's-it has to be specific to a turbo or fi kit

that is not what he meant

Correct, but someone could DIY a kit.

[wareagle900]

The final answer is that they just did not see profit in the matter. end of story.

[5erman]

The fact is they didnt know how to do it-it wasnt a not profitable issue-who wouldnt want a pbx with more performance-that makes no sense-sounds like they just didnt spend the time or have the know how to tune valvetronic.

However as mentioned in another point I realized I would never touch the valvetronic since it wont match your current valve springs-changing the valvetronic is like adding a different camshaft and you NEVER add a cam without spring changes-not only will it not perform properly but longevity of the springs and the parts attached is severely compromised. That was a great point made in the other post and I dont know how RD sport offers their cams with no spring upgrade-that is even worse.

I think guys these engines are really fully tuned from the factory if you want to keep stock parts.

[wareagle900]

I disagree. It is a profit issue.

even if they did not know how to do it, it was profit potential that kept them from trying to figure out how.

the R&D costs outweighed what they thought potential profits would be. Plain and simple

[capo1m]

Originally Posted by 5erman

The fact is they didnt know how to do it-it wasnt a not profitable issue-who wouldnt want a pbx with more performance-that makes no sense-sounds like they just didnt spend the time or have the know how to tune valvetronic.

However as mentioned in another point I realized I would never touch the valvetronic since it wont match your current valve springs-changing the valvetronic is like adding a different camshaft and you NEVER add a cam without spring changes-not only will it not perform properly but longevity of the springs and the parts attached is severely compromised. That was a great point made in the other post and I dont know how RD sport offers their cams with no spring upgrade-that is even worse.

I think guys these engines are really fully tuned from the factory if you want to keep stock parts.

who would want to lose there original 280 from the first pbx no one would want and go out and spend around 500 for the new one? it is a matter of if they make it will the consumer buy it i know i wouldnt because no one would want to buy the old pbx making it garbage and the only people who would spend 500 r the people who didnt have the pbx in the first place. i wouldnt doubt bms abilities they have done wonders for us and without them we would be stuck with out some good gains

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by wareagle900

I disagree. It is a profit issue.

even if they did not know how to do it, it was profit potential that kept them from trying to figure out how.

the R&D costs outweighed what they thought potential profits would be. Plain and simple

It's mainly a performance issue. Huge gains weren't there. They found a couple HP but given the risks and hardware needed to do it in production without codes or headaches they decided to leave it to the Stage2 flash tuners who can do it without the extra hardware and are happy to take those risks with larger profit margins.

Mike

[5erman]

Guys there is not "R and D" when it comes to this stuff-they have the equipment-once you have it there is very little "research" and development is not a huge time consumption here-you either know how to do it or not. I mean it takes some time obviously to figur eout the system and the best values to gain hp and not lose hp but this is not going to take much more if they had alreayd gotten the pbx-like I said they did not know how to do it properly.

Also it could have been offered for a 100 dollar upgrade to owners of a pbx and could have been the same price as a pbx is now for new customers-stage 2 would just replace stage 1-it would be the new version for sale. how would it have to be 500 bucks.

However the more I read about this I am convinced unless you change your valve springs and cam-there is only so much extra lift you can create adn you really cant increase your rpms past 7 withou changing out your springs and cam and still actually make good power.

However that is my choice-still would have ben nice for them to offer even 10 extra hp by offering a very small increase in lift

[Gavin@MMW]

Originally Posted by 5erman

Guys there is not "R and D" when it comes to this stuff-they have the equipment-once you have it there is very little "research" and development is not a huge time consumption here-you either know how to do it or not. I mean it takes some time obviously to figure out the system and the best values to gain hp and not lose hp but this is not going to take much more if they had alreayd gotten the pbx-like I said they did not know how to do it properly.

Also it could have been offered for a 100 dollar upgrade to owners of a pbx and could have been the same price as a pbx is now for new customers-stage 2 would just replace stage 1-it would be the new version for sale. how would it have to be 500 bucks.

However the more I read about this I am convinced unless you change your valve springs and cam-there is only so much extra lift you can create adn you really cant increase your rpms past 7 withou changing out your springs and cam and still actually make good power.

However that is my choice-still would have ben nice for them to offer even 10 extra hp by offering a very small increase in lift

So let me understand you here...

your saying they dont need to R&D something that hasnt been done yet?

there is no valvetronic piggy back tune out there, so they would be the first - and that calls for some R&D i dont care if BMW themselves came out with it - testing is needed.


Now, I dont think you understand the amount of work to get a valvetronic tune into a car, let alone work it in to a piggyback module that works on every car.

To tune valvetronic, you need to access the ECU itself - to do so requires mating the car to a standalone computer (at least an hour to sync) and running it on a dyno to see where the gains are to be had. now average dyno time is 100-150 for 3 pulls, as these machines EAT electricity like no ones business. Obviously you cant tune in 3 pulls, so after around 15 pulls you have logged enough data to actually see what the car is doing. From there it takes a knowledgeable ECU tuner to go through the maps and modify all the 1's and 0's in every part of the engine tuning, which takes hours to do correctly, then you need to re run the car on the dyno to make sure its not knocking or acting abused. Now all this is reletive to the car and owner of the car. I know I dont drive the same as you do, so my engine is used to things yours is not. if you have midifications beyond the stock engine - those will also com in to play since the car is no longer breathing stock, its advanced. now to take all of that into account for a piggy back system that will work flawlessly across all n52 platforms (as the PBX does) is a major undertaking. Since its a piggy back and not a flash, it needs to control many things from an outside point - instead of re-writting the ECU altogether like a Flash does.

your asking for them to modify valvetronic inputs without rewriting the software.. that's not easy and will take A LOT of R&D on multiple cars.

I dont see it being worth it for Terry and the BMS guys, the PBX is solid and you can not touch his price point with a 10 foot pole, especially for what they offer for under 300$.

also, there are multiple videos shows improved acceleration times from a stop and from a roll with the powerbox, you might want to check out youtube - many people ad companies have done it.

[capo1m]

Originally Posted by 5erman

Guys there is not "R and D" when it comes to this stuff-they have the equipment-once you have it there is very little "research" and development is not a huge time consumption here-you either know how to do it or not. I mean it takes some time obviously to figur eout the system and the best values to gain hp and not lose hp but this is not going to take much more if they had alreayd gotten the pbx-like I said they did not know how to do it properly.

Also it could have been offered for a 100 dollar upgrade to owners of a pbx and could have been the same price as a pbx is now for new customers-stage 2 would just replace stage 1-it would be the new version for sale. how would it have to be 500 bucks.

However the more I read about this I am convinced unless you change your valve springs and cam-there is only so much extra lift you can create adn you really cant increase your rpms past 7 withou changing out your springs and cam and still actually make good power.

However that is my choice-still would have ben nice for them to offer even 10 extra hp by offering a very small increase in lift

you guys forgot he is an expert on this subject cant u tell he made his own product because he has all the equipment has done the research that clearly works sooooo y not listen to him but before i become a ahole please tell me what knowledge do u have or background do u have in the tuning of the n52 engine anything certifiable? and dont bash other people jobs they r doing something good for others and u shouldnt disrespect that u might have a better "job" but i dont think anyone on here cares?