[jpsimon]

shoulda got a 6mt myst

[themyst]

Originally Posted by jpsimon

shoulda got a 6mt myst

I had a 6MT 135i. That pathetic excuse of a notchy gearbox, bogging, etc all over again? No thanks.

[jpsimon]

driving my girlfriend's AT is so boring, i would NEVER get one

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Shiv must be diligently writing an new beta update that includes includes ignition logging for all 6 cylinders which will be in the next beta firmware. ...but not really activated in autotuning till the beta firmware after that... LOL

It'll be definitely challenging as you can't tack on too many channels on the CANBus concurrently and expect it to be reliable/fast...reading from the canbus slows down dramatically after a certain X number of channels are added for monitoring so you need to pick/choose wisely...on top of that reading from the CANBus the piggy way is currently around 10-20/sec...to use that for any sort of ignition control logic in the high RPMs would be fairly slow and with that comes reliability..

i'm all for total progress in tuning on the N54 but this one is going to be a challenge for the piggies IF they decide to go there...

[themyst]

Originally Posted by jpsimon

driving my girlfriend's AT is so boring, i would NEVER get one

I've owned so many manual cars over the past 12 years, honestly I love the auto and probably will never go back.

Owned a s2000, g35, civic si, 135i, all in manual. if you enjoy driving a manual, to each their own.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by dzenno

It'll be definitely challenging as you can't tack on too many channels on the CANBus concurrently and expect it to be reliable/fast...reading from the canbus slows down dramatically after a certain X number of channels are added for monitoring so you need to pick/choose wisely...on top of that reading from the CANBus the piggy way is currently around 10-20/sec...to use that for any sort of ignition control logic in the high RPMs would be fairly slow and with that comes reliability..

i'm all for total progress in tuning on the N54 but this one is going to be a challenge for the piggies IF they decide to go there...

+1 you can only poll the CANbus so quickly.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by dzenno

It'll be definitely challenging as you can't tack on too many channels on the CANBus concurrently and expect it to be reliable/fast...reading from the canbus slows down dramatically after a certain X number of channels are added for monitoring so you need to pick/choose wisely...on top of that reading from the CANBus the piggy way is currently around 10-20/sec...to use that for any sort of ignition control logic in the high RPMs would be fairly slow and with that comes reliability..

i'm all for total progress in tuning on the N54 but this one is going to be a challenge for the piggies IF they decide to go there...

I know all that buddy!

Interestingly enough, I ALSO happen to remember how last year I got both Shiv and Mike to officially state that Vishnu and BMS products pack enough processing power to handle all sensor channels at any refresh frequency they wanted. HAHAHA!

[themyst]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

I know all that buddy!

Interestingly enough, I ALSO happen to remember how last year I got both Shiv and Mike to officially state that Vishnu and BMS products pack enough processing power to handle all sensor channels at any refresh frequency they wanted. HAHAHA!

Yeah I guess that explains why we can only log 10 channels on the Procede software at a time. Meh

[Joshboody]

I would love the ability to view all cylinders but more of a diagnostic. I don't think peeps are really understanding that cylinder 1 is a reference. Just like the timing map for the DME is a reference. The DME will then adjust from there dynamically, which is kept in place with the piggy of course.

More log channels added to autotune is not necessary, but for logging purpose would be great.

I wouldn't want a situation where I'm adding aggression to my tune when cylinder 6 is performing poorly... same situation as changing the Cobb ATR map.

EDIT: I guess you could autotune off the poorest cylinder... can't find a fault in that really, except for processing power.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

I would love the ability to view all cylinders but more of a diagnostic. I don't think peeps are really understanding that cylinder 1 is a reference. Just like the timing map for the DME is a reference. The DME will then adjust from there dynamically, which is kept in place with the piggy of course.

More log channels added to autotune is not necessary, but for logging purpose would be great.

I wouldn't want a situation where I'm adding aggression to my tune when cylinder 6 is performing poorly... same situation as changing the Cobb ATR map.

EDIT: I guess you could autotune off the poorest cylinder... can't find a fault in that really, except for processing power.

No doubt that logging this information is/would be beneficial to any tune...however what's more of an issue here is using CPS to control timing by applying global changes "based on" just events in one cylinder...i'm not going to pretend that I know how the DIC logic on the procede works or how autotuning works on the procede or JB4 or anything like that...i'm just bringing this to your attention and you can answer the questions and raise issues for yourself as you see fit...do you feel comfortable that there's logic in a piggy based on cylinder 1 which is then applied globally across all cylinders...my answer would be is that as long as there's no advance being added (which has been experimented with recently) that its not harmful...now given that part is out of the way I also have to say that the approach behind CPS offset is great for failsafe logic where timing needs to be globally "retarded" across all cylinders...however all the logic that sits upon is referencing just one cylinder so in my mind is not enough...

I asked Cobb if it was ok to share a log with timing corrections included and they were nice enough to let you guys see it even though this isn't yet publicly released...Attached to this post is a CSV file of a log of one of many runs I've done in the past while...this one is on pump gas no meth...it hits 17+ psi and then tapers down heavily in the upper RPMs and runs about 4 degrees less advance than the stock tune (i.e. 10.5deg at redline)

File is attached to the post..had to rename it from .csv to .txt to be able to attach...open it in Excel for easy viewing..

[vasillalov]

Dzenno,

Interesting log indeed! Couple of questions:

This is a wot pull, correct? Which gear?


Shiv,

Do you see that column that says TPS Act %? Yes, that's the one that tells you how much the throttle is open. Pay close attention to the values in that column as there are a lot of them over 78%. Didn't you claim that 78% is the MAXIMUM that the throttle plate is capable of? Hmmm... Might wanna check on that....

[mithiral67]

So the "CylX Timing Cor (¡)" columns notes the amount of less timing that the X cylinder is running compared to 1? Therefore at 6589 rpms, cylinder two is running 8.63 degrees timing?

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Dzenno,

Interesting log indeed! Couple of questions:

This is a wot pull, correct? Which gear?


Shiv,

Do you see that column that says TPS Act %? Yes, that's the one that tells you how much the throttle is open. Pay close attention to the values in that column as there are a lot of them over 78%. Didn't you claim that 78% is the MAXIMUM that the throttle plate is capable of? Hmmm... Might wanna check on that....

This was 3rd gear..as are 99% of the WOT pulls I do when datalogging..

Originally Posted by mithiral67

So the "CylX Timing Cor (¡)" columns notes the amount of less timing that the X cylinder is running compared to 1? Therefore at 6589 rpms, cylinder two is running 8.63 degrees timing?

Cyl X timing Correction is how much cyl X timing curve is being corrected by..i didn't provide timing values for the rest of the cylinders...this log was to illustrate corrections across all 6 cylinders and show cyl 1 timing which is the only one monitored by piggies for a lot of their logic...

So cyl 2 timing correction is how much retard is being applied to the cyl 2 timing curve at that instant in time...in the piggy logs the Ignition Advance curve = Timing Cylinder 1 + Timing Correction Cylinder 1...correction is always a negative number or zero...

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Cyl X timing Correction is how much cyl X timing curve is being corrected by..i didn't provide timing values for the rest of the cylinders...this log was to illustrate corrections across all 6 cylinders and show cyl 1 timing which is the only one monitored by piggies for a lot of their logic...

So cyl 2 timing correction is how much retard is being applied to the cyl 2 timing curve at that instant in time...in the piggy logs the Ignition Advance curve = Timing Cylinder 1 + Timing Correction Cylinder 1...correction is always a negative number or zero...

Bravo!

I hope people are reading this carefully!

[mithiral67]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Cyl X timing Correction is how much cyl X timing curve is being corrected by..i didn't provide timing values for the rest of the cylinders...this log was to illustrate corrections across all 6 cylinders and show cyl 1 timing which is the only one monitored by piggies for a lot of their logic...

So cyl 2 timing correction is how much retard is being applied to the cyl 2 timing curve at that instant in time...in the piggy logs the Ignition Advance curve = Timing Cylinder 1 + Timing Correction Cylinder 1...correction is always a negative number or zero...

I apologize for the slow uptake on my part. I might be confused by your comments as I dont fully understand how timing correction works across cylinders. I really only understand how its controlled/modified on a single cylinder basis.

Can you calculate the actual degree of timing on each of the cylinders (other than 1 as its provided) from the logs provided?

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

I apologize for the slow uptake on my part. Can you calculate the actual degree of timing on each of the cylinders (other than 1 as its provided) from the logs provided?

No need to calculate anything...cyl 1 timing in the log takes into account the correction....i can run a log with all cylinder timing values and all cylinder timing corrections in one and show it to you guys but it'll have to wait until tomorrow..

Look at it like this:

Actual (Current) Timing on Cylinder X = DME Requested Timing Curve + Timing Correction on Cylinder X

Timing correction is dynamic and can change an ANY time given octane/conditions. DME Requested Timing Curve is what a flash is setup with to run when conditions are optimal (best octane + best conditions). The Actual Timing on a given cylinder X is the value you get once you subtract timing correction from the DME Requested Timing Curve which has been flashed to the DME for that particular map or as Cobb calls it "calibration".

[cstmx_ryder]

dzenno,

I can't read the log you posted. I have a Mac......

Is there anyway you can repost so that I can see?

TIA

[mithiral67]

Ok, that makes sense. I see how seeing the deta from the DME Requested Timing Curve is more informative than seeing the timing of each cylinder when it comes to monitoring for safety/performance.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by cstmx_ryder

I can't read the log you posted. I have a Mac......

TIA

HAHAHA!

I got you covered. Here is the an image of dzenno's log showing all 6 cyl with respect to boost

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by cstmx_ryder

dzenno,

I can't read the log you posted. I have a Mac......

Is there anyway you can repost so that I can see?

TIA

Its a .txt file, you should be able to see it...i tried graphing it but don't have time to do it enough justice...

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by cstmx_ryder

dzenno,

I can't read the log you posted. I have a Mac......

Is there anyway you can repost so that I can see?

TIA

Originally Posted by vasillalov

HAHAHA!

I got you covered. Here is the an image of dzenno's log showing all 6 cyl with respect to boost

You're fast!

[onesuperboi]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

HAHAHA!

I got you covered. Here is the an image of dzenno's log showing all 6 cyl with respect to boost

You sure that is all six!